341 réponses à ce sujet

[Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

count_4 wrote...

[

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Leland Gaunt wrote...
What are you saving your consumables for?

Platinum.

Xena_Shepard wrote...
Heh, yeah, I don't play platinum.

Also, lol. 

Maybe you shouldn't quote edit my reason for not playing platinum (pugs).

I'm waiting for the planets to align and get 3 platinum-worthy buddies on to go play platinum with. Mostly waiting for an xbox friend to get a PC.

Maybe you shouldn´t catch yourself up in contradictions then. This isn´t the first and it isn´t the last.

If you say that consumables shouldn´t be used, for their impact on your score, then you also have to accept that you never should buy any weapons pack at all - because Level 1 Common Weapons is all you should use. And never put any skill points into your chars, because fitness really modifies how long you can stand in enemy fire.

It is an arbitrary, willfully screwed view of the world that you have. Limiting yourself is your choice. Nobody can argue about that. But arguing that everybody else plays with crutches is holier-than-thou because you don´t play within the limits of the game which everybody except glitchers does, but in the limits of your own chosen rules.

How is a commonly accepted arbitrary system worse then your arbitrary beliefs? It isn´t and only a very faint minority will side with you, because common sense dictates otherwise.

Anyway, have fun arguing, because I certainly enjoy reading this. It´s like an episode of the Benny Hill show.

[BleedingUranium]

I'm going to bed. Xena, feel free to use what I wrote about knowing your own kit if you like.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[HolyAvenger]

xtorma wrote...

It's there to use. Not using it is foolish.

OP is saving it for Plat. Even her Cryo Ammo and Explosive Rounds

[Acyl]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Yeah... that's kind of my point. I feel like equipment is a crutch, but hey, do whatever you want. I don't go "lol noob" at people who I see using equipment, all I'm asking is for the same courtesy to be given to me. 

The trouble is...your perspective isn't the norm. It's a fair perspective, I respect it. I even kind of agree with you. But the reality is that a lot of people are going to disagree. There's only so much that can be done about that. You have to accept that yours is a minority point of view, and so you're going to inevitably take some abuse for having it.

Even if you're right.

Let's face it, most people doing random Gold matches aren't that good. For most of the community, Gold is really really hard. So when they see another player without any consumables equipped, they're gonna think...hey, this player wants to be carried. Or something. People are going to bring their own assumptions to the table. You're not going to change their minds.

Modifié par Acyl, 11 décembre 2012 - 11:48 .

[ValorOfArms777]

I can do gold no equipment just a "gear"
Do I preference it "not really"

I normally only use it if I wanna be Zuper effective, if I just wanna pass through, sure...no equipment people let me do it and I do fien depending which char I bring along

[Scottus4]

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

Also, it is hard to quantify the benefit of a Cyclonic Mod. Primes fire three shots, if you have enough shield to soak two shots, then if a Prime doesn't have a drone or turret up it can't kill you by itself. That's an infinite increase in survivability for that specific scenario. Obviously more shield doesn't help you against sync kills, but you can play much more aggressively with a cyclonic mod on.

Modifié par Scottus4, 11 décembre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Xena_Shepard]

Acyl wrote...

The trouble is...your perspective isn't the norm. It's a
fair perspective, I respect it. I even kind of agree with you. But the
reality is that a lot of people are going to disagree. There's only so
much that can be done about that. You have to accept that yours is a
minority point of view, and so you're going to inevitably take some
abuse for having it.

Even if you're right.

Let's face it, most people doing random Gold matches aren't that good.
For most of the community, Gold is really really hard. So when they see
another player without any consumables equipped, they're gonna
think...hey, this player wants to be carried. Or something. People are
going to bring their own assumptions to the table. You're not going to
change their minds.

Yeah I didn't really think I was gonna change anybody's mind. I think a lot of people don't realize this is a discussionary/exploratory thread. I wanted to know opinions, why people felt the way they do. I don't plan to change, because I perform just fine as I am. I've never played with any of the people that have posted here, so it matters little to me if they feel I'm a noob.

Scottus4 wrote...

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

That's why I can way out-perform people using a full loadout of level 4 equipment, huh? By your logic, I should be scoring 80%/50% lower than them...

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Scottus4]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Scottus4 wrote...

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

That's why I can way out-perform people using a full loadout of level 4 equipment, huh? By your logic, I should be scoring 80%/50% lower than them...

Nope. You're scoring about half as much as you would be, obviously not that much since even if you had a gun that quintupled your DPS, you'd still have to find targets, and there are only so many enemies per wave, but you get the idea. 

Anyways, at the end of the day, part of it is also just the fact that putting on equipment means you're going to commit to the game and not leave wave 7 leaving them high and dry.

All in all, you need to stop being stingy or stop being surprised when you get the boot.

[Droma]

then they were worse then you or had a bad class? So basically you are hindering your teammates and yourself just for those few moments were you outperform some "noobs" without consumables?

yeah totally worth it.

[Hausner85]

Scottus4 wrote...

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

I thinks you should show us the math... Because i'm now researching game mechanics of the game for the guide i’m writing and even without counting i can tell you’re wrong max dmg increase will not be bigger than 40% and most of the time you will get around 20% ….With level III and IV consumables

Modifié par Hausner85, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:00 .

[Scottus4]

Hausner85 wrote...

Scottus4 wrote...

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

I thinks you should show us the math... Because i'm now researching game mechanics of the game for the guide i’m writing and even without counting i can tell you’re wrong max dmg increase will not be bigger than 40% and most of the time you will get around 20% ….With level III and IV consumables

AR III = +30%, AP IV = +50%. +80% against health (a lot more against armor since you're negating 90% of armor DR and dealing +100% against armor). What's the problem?

[Stinja]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I think a lot of people don't realize this is a discussionary/exploratory thread. I wanted to know opinions, why people felt the way they do. 

I get the point, and i partly agree with you - playing with nothing equipped makes you learn the character better.  Then once you know your character bung on stuff and the game goes faster.

Can i solo gold with a volus adept, an Avenger X and no comsumables?  Yes, but it will take much, much longer than a TGI + Harrier + consumables.  I'll have fun with both, but if i'm on gold trying to have fun and earn credits, i'll try to use my time efficently - and hence use consumables.

I dont look down on those who dont, i have freinds who dont and they are solid gold players, but PUGgies with a questionable weapon/kit choice and no consumables...

But as i said earlier, i mostly use one-use comsumables because i have so many of them 67 Warp IVs?!  Yeah i just dont care, if i lose them from DCs or whatever.

Modifié par Stinja, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[P51Mus7ang]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I've never played with any of the people that have posted here, so it matters little to me if they feel I'm a noob.

Can only speak for myself, don't think you are a noob, I suspect something happened in a lobby to start this.

Try running a few games with players from BSN, I play with around 90 from here, some more than others and I wish I could play with more, it's a very different experience vs pugs.

Myself and a group were laughing the other night running golds, it's a struggle to get a Gold kill medal when playing with people from here yet in pugs it's quite often a given. I had never noticed it much although I do go after medals but he was right.

Anyhow give it some thought, you have nothing to loose, if you are XB, I would be happy to play a few games.....but I can tell you straight up I will be using consumables, i do rocket for a kill streak...why....well my manifest is full and I like spending credits so I may as well burn them up and it makes the games go faster, besides our task is to kill as much as possible to defend earth and others:)

Modifié par P51Mus7ang, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[Zero132132]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm the type that values actual inherent player skill. People think they're good if they use consumable gear, but it's just the gear that's good.

This is an RPG-shooter. Decisions about your build and how it interacts with your playstyle are going to affect your effectiveness substantially. In a game where intelligent decision-making benefits your effectiveness, deciding on effective builds IS a skill.

This game isn't really that difficult in terms of gameplay. If you lack the ability to ensure that you're effective with a given character and loadout, then you lack one of the only skills that's actually useful in this game. If your loadout never includes equipment, then you probably lack this skill, and I don't want to have to carry you.

[tatski]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Scottus4 wrote...

Up to 80% weapon damage and/or 50% power damage. Basically, if you don't use consumables, you're worth about half as much as you would be if you're a weapons class, and about worth about 2/3 as you would be as a caster. . You don't see why consumables are important?

That's why I can way out-perform people using a full loadout of level 4 equipment, huh? By your logic, I should be scoring 80%/50% lower than them... 

 

Anyone who uses weapon/ammo/armor mods will perform better compared to not using them at all... Its not about outperforming someone. Its about efficiency. Any player that equips consumable are definitely more efficient... If you can drop enemies faster, the game becomes easier and faster.

No equipments gives the impression that you wanted to be carried... Personally I wouldn't accuse someone as "noob" when I no consumables equipped in the lobby. If this is the case I would also hold back on my consumables(use Level 1 or 2) too and try to grind it out.. But if I see atleast one player with lvl 3 or 4 consumables then I'll also equip  myself to the teeth..

Modifié par tatski, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:23 .

[cgj]

people want you to use equipments because
they don't trust you
they are selfish and want the game to go faster so they need you at maximum efficiency

that's pretty much the only reasons

Modifié par cgj, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:15 .

[koschwarz74]

but what is the reason NOT using consumables if you have them? i have a ton, i literally can't consume them, i don't even mind if i loose them because of a crash, disconnenct, etc...

personally, i don't care the teammates' consumables.

[Siran]

Nonoru wrote...

If you're that skilled, just play alone.

Judging by OP's Challenges: no Solo Mastery - therefore has to rely on other players as crutches. Pitiful.

[Deerber]

I didn't bother reading through all the topic, sorry about that.

But, to answer the OP: it's pretty simple. You can do better for the team, and you have to pay nothing for it.

If you don't equip it, expect a kick vote from me.

[Xena_Shepard]

Zero132132 wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm the type that values actual inherent player skill. People think they're good if they use consumable gear, but it's just the gear that's good.

This is an RPG-shooter. Decisions about your build and how it interacts with your playstyle are going to affect your effectiveness substantially. In a game where intelligent decision-making benefits your effectiveness, deciding on effective builds IS a skill.

This game isn't really that difficult in terms of gameplay. If you lack the ability to ensure that you're effective with a given character and loadout, then you lack one of the only skills that's actually useful in this game. If your loadout never includes equipment, then you probably lack this skill, and I don't want to have to carry you.

That's fine, I don't want to have to play with you and carry you either :happy:

koschwarz74 wrote...

but what is the reason NOT using
consumables if you have them? i have a ton, i literally can't consume
them, i don't even mind if i loose them because of a crash, disconnenct,
etc...

personally, i don't care the teammates' consumables.

I gain more personal satisfaction from the game by performing well purely due to my own skill. Basically, the game's more fun when I don't use equipment.

To all that say I'm "hindering the team": When I carry more of my weight than people who actually used equipment, you mean you want me to further carry the team by using equipment?

Siran wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

If you're that skilled, just play alone.

Judging by OP's Challenges: no Solo Mastery - therefore has to rely on other players as crutches. Pitiful.

Maybe you should look at how I'm 1/2 on gold solo challenge. I can do it, it's just boring as hell.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[mskitty666]

 When players don't use consumables it means one of four things to me. They are noobs with little or none to use (also looking at character, N7, challenge points, weapons and mods). They are unskilled players who don't expect to succeed. They are uncommitted players who will leave the team high and dry at any time (eg. make mistake and die or aren't topping the scoreboard). Or they have mad skills and need the challenge to keep the game interesting (almost never the case). In my experience, no equipment means a rough match with players who refuse to gel even for objectives, won't help fallen teamates and think objectives don't apply to them.
I find it difficult to run out of any consumables . I monitor inventory carefully. If I am dangerously low (less than 10 each level or 20 level 3) I stop using those. I always try to use what I have the most of first. Run out? HA! Never.

[Droma]

so other question, what kind of skills depend on consumables?
your ability to headshot/aim for enemies? certainly not.
your ability to know enemie behaviour and react in certain ways? nope.
your abilty to survive? mainly this, but even with full defence gear (which is 150% shields), you have to take cover quite often. the only difference is you have to do it less. So are you better with your character if you get behind cover 150times during a match compared to 100 times? I don't think so.

consumables don't increase your skill. you can kill enemies faster with it and even bring up some combos which actually require new strategies and therefor enable new builds. There isn't much skill involved if I kill enemies slower and therefore have to use cover more often or have to run on the other side of the map to get distance to my enemies.

[Xena_Shepard]

mskitty666 wrote...

 When players don't use consumables it means one of four things to me. They are noobs with little or none to use (also looking at character, N7, challenge points, weapons and mods). They are unskilled players who don't expect to succeed. They are uncommitted players who will leave the team high and dry at any time (eg. make mistake and die or aren't topping the scoreboard). Or they have mad skills and need the challenge to keep the game interesting (almost never the case). In my experience, no equipment means a rough match with players who refuse to gel even for objectives, won't help fallen teamates and think objectives don't apply to them.
I find it difficult to run out of any consumables . I monitor inventory carefully. If I am dangerously low (less than 10 each level or 20 level 3) I stop using those. I always try to use what I have the most of first. Run out? HA! Never.

I guess I'd fall into the 4th category (though I wouldn't say I have mad skills). Even then, sometimes matches just feel too easy...

Droma wrote...

so other question, what kind of skills depend on consumables?
your ability to headshot/aim for enemies? certainly not.
your ability to know enemie behaviour and react in certain ways? nope.
your
abilty to survive? mainly this, but even with full defence gear (which
is 150% shields), you have to take cover quite often. the only
difference is you have to do it less. So are you better with your
character if you get behind cover 150times during a match compared to
100 times? I don't think so.

consumables don't increase your
skill. you can kill enemies faster with it and even bring up some combos
which actually require new strategies and therefor enable new builds.
There isn't much skill involved if I kill enemies slower and therefore
have to use cover more often or have to run on the other side of the map
to get distance to my enemies.

Skills do depend on consumables when you're using an ammo bonus to set up explosion combos that you couldn't otherwise do. It's those types of things specifically are why I avoid them.

And yes, equipment does impact your skill as a player. If you use a really OP loadout and high level equipment, you become complacent and sloppy. You can mow down the big enemies faster than they can do any damage to you. It puts you in the habit of expecting your character to perform in a way it won't always perform (IE when you run out of that specific type/level of equipment). That's why I stay away from it. I expect consistent results from my characters.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:40 .

[Droma]

so it takes less skill to detonate tech combos? don't understand me wrong I don't think it takes more skill, but also net less. it's basically the same.

btw I also often play gold games without consumables, mainly because I only equip myself after entering a lobby. So if the game was running and I join, I won't have any equip except perma equip on. The game gets a little but harder, but personally I find it more frustrating to cover so often and not beeing able to burn through enemies armor.

But as mentioned above, you look at this game from a competetive way, which most of us here don't agree on. I kinda get your point, but your argument that many people with consumables can't play without them is just wrong. basically most of the people who are good with them, would also be good without them. the people you outscore even if they have equip, would also be bad without the equip.

[Zero132132]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm the type that values actual inherent player skill. People think they're good if they use consumable gear, but it's just the gear that's good.

This is an RPG-shooter. Decisions about your build and how it interacts with your playstyle are going to affect your effectiveness substantially. In a game where intelligent decision-making benefits your effectiveness, deciding on effective builds IS a skill.

This game isn't really that difficult in terms of gameplay. If you lack the ability to ensure that you're effective with a given character and loadout, then you lack one of the only skills that's actually useful in this game. If your loadout never includes equipment, then you probably lack this skill, and I don't want to have to carry you.

That's fine, I don't want to have to play with you and carry you either :happy:

That's it? I gave you a set of rational reasons that the position you're adopting is stupid for this kind of game. No response to that at all? It isn't an obsession with consumables, it's just that in this kind of game, the only kind of skill that's really going to mean much is the ability to make simple decisions in the loadout menu. Basically, players with any degree of intelligence will use some gear that's appropriate to the class being played. Players without any degree of intelligence will generally be ridiculed as noobs. It was just an explanation. Do you understand it now? I can try explaining it in simpler terms if that's what you need.

If you're not interested in explanations, then it seems kind of odd that you ever made a post or attempted to carry on conversations. I guess that's a possibility too.