435 ответов в этой теме

[badmojo88]

 I -Know- im going to regret asking this openly at the sheer amount of trolls im likely going to get, but is there a 'good' tali face mod out there? something that perhaps keeps the bioware "designed" face image look but shows it more on tali herself, via more clear faceplate, or modded scenes where shes facing shepard with the mask off etc etc...

and please for the love of all that is sane trollers lets skip the pics with tali taking her mask off in me2 and turning out to look like some random character, ie; jabba the hutt, solid snake, an ewok, staypuff marshmallowman, and/or ashten koocher....

we get it we get it, photoshop is fun ha ha ha, really that gags been beaten to death.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Unfortunately not, but with the mesh replacer in ME3 Explorer that's more possible.

I think I saw one person working on this, but I'm not sure if they were intending a release or if it was part of their video series only.

[FlyinElk212]

Slightly confused, are you saying you'd like a mod that actually shows Tali's face in-game, or a mod that replaces the picture she gives you revealing her face?

Cuz I think the latter would be more than possible. That being said, if ANYONE could pull off the former, it'd probably be the second most downloaded ME3 mod out there, next to MEHEM.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

The former is entirely possible now. You would just use the mesh replacer tool in ME3 Explorer and it would replace a default Tali model with the visible model. I'm not sure what ramification this would have on, say, facial animations, or how you could change the camera angles to show her face more directly, but the rudimentary idea is there.

It's just that no one is working on it. I've dabbled in other fields I barely understand (texture editing), but modelling is above my pay grade. Hopefully as more awareness is made of the cool things you can do in ME3 Explorer, someone starts working on it.

If you want a better picture based on the canon with less photoshop errors: use this edit. I go with this in my game, personally.

Сообщение изменено: PKchu, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 02:43 .

[badmojo88]

well considering MEHEM, and that modding mass effect in traditional conversion style is doable given enough time and effort. I am referring to a mod for tali herself, to reveal her face in game, rather then 'just' the picture, not changing how she looked in the picture, but including a shot of her when she removes the mask, camera rotated towards her rather then at her back all the time, or/and a more transparent faceplate, one that shows face details that would add to the picture scene later on. -despite it being cheap and unseemly bioware just photoshopping that image the way they did for tali's face portrait i did like it, i would never have known it was a photoshop cut if someone hadnt pointed it out honestly.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

MEHEM's construction isn't like, say, dropping a new module into Skyrim. ME3 Explorer's limitations currently have users replacing files instead of say, adding new chunks to the game. A lot of the edits are pretty "hacky" and creative and less "being able to go into the game and alter how it scripts things."

Hopefully it gets there, but the key time and effort for some things is actually going to be the developers of the mod tools. If you notice MEHEM, the "reunion" scene is actually the same scene as synthesis with different models and textures called. I've never inquired about camera angles before and how difficult it would be to change them - I would hope not too bad.

But yeah, I'm with you, that's a project worth working on.

[badmojo88]

well basically it would only need a reskin and a simple camera rotation, the tali-maskless model is in the game, but was never really made to be shown from the front, basically the same model with the faceplate gone with no face turned from the camera

Сообщение изменено: badmojo88, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 03:21 .

[Redbelle]

PKchu wrote...

MEHEM's construction isn't like, say, dropping a new module into Skyrim. ME3 Explorer's limitations currently have users replacing files instead of say, adding new chunks to the game. A lot of the edits are pretty "hacky" and creative and less "being able to go into the game and alter how it scripts things."

Hopefully it gets there, but the key time and effort for some things is actually going to be the developers of the mod tools. If you notice MEHEM, the "reunion" scene is actually the same scene as synthesis with different models and textures called. I've never inquired about camera angles before and how difficult it would be to change them - I would hope not too bad.

But yeah, I'm with you, that's a project worth working on.

The first point where I think we should see her face rendered in game is already a part where she takes her mask off. It's the liberation of Rannoch after the Reaper is killed and the geth dilemma is 'resolved' where Tali looks out over the world she can call home. I think an issue to overcome would be the rest of her head gear obscuring her features. However, through the magic of video games I'm sure few would object if the hood were given the 'flimsy material' treatment so it could be pushed back.

Other than that, I'm open to other suggestions where it would gain maximum impact in seeing her face.

[FlyinElk212]

badmojo88 wrote...

well basically it would only need a reskin and a simple camera rotation, the tali-maskless model is in the game, but was never really made to be shown from the front, basically the same model with the faceplate gone with no face turned from the camera

Exactly, and the scene we'd be asking to modify would literally last about 5 seconds. I'm envisioning you're talking about the line, "Right now......I have this."

<---about 2:03 here, right?

So the difficult part will be actually modeling Tali's face in game, yes? I don't know how difficult it will be, especially since I don't understand modding and, like you said PKchu, there's no developer tools, but I'd think that a 5 second mod wouldn't be THAT strenuous......right?

Heck, I'd pay someone commission money to get it done. Tali's face reveal= 2nd biggest opportunity lost in ME3, at least for me.

Сообщение изменено: FlyinElk212, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 03:30 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Sure, you could do something with the default quarian face. Between Daro'Xen/co having a more full version of it if you needed to hack something together, you could probably make a WIP visible face as a proof of concept relatively quickly with the lowest amount of knowledge in tweaking with models.

Ignoring the camera angle...

The next problem that jumps out to me is if you make her face visible, is it...going to stay still the entire time? Because that would be creepy.

And I'm assuming you only want the face visible in certain cutscenes, right? The mesh replacer swaps it for all the times you see the face period. So you'd have to make her face visible at all times or mod it in between loading times. That would work for say, the final romance scene, but definitely not for Rannoch. That would...yeah, if you wanted a seamless integration, that would require a lot more control over how the game works than we currently have, forcing a different texture "call" at the time with no in-game prompt to do so.

Probably the best way to approach it would be to simply try to get it working step by step and piecemeal, work on getting a placeholder face in-game at all, then see it what it does with facial animations (I'm guessing it would just stay frozen), then implement it with the romance scene, then see if we could get the face "rigged" (< - suddenly things become complicated), then see if we could mess with the Rannoch sequence in terms of loading the proper face (< - oh god, it is all burning). Right now if you change the camera angle, you see Tali taking off her mask and her old mask stays there.

Yeah, a lot of obstacles. ...but we can replace meshes. :V

[badmojo88]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

well basically it would only need a reskin and a simple camera rotation, the tali-maskless model is in the game, but was never really made to be shown from the front, basically the same model with the faceplate gone with no face turned from the camera

Exactly, and the scene we'd be asking to modify would literally last about 5 seconds. I'm envisioning you're talking about the line, "Right now......I have this."

<---about 2:03 here, right?

So the difficult part will be actually modeling Tali's face in game, yes? I don't know how difficult it will be, especially since I don't understand modding and, like you said PKchu, there's no developer tools, but I'd think that a 5 second mod wouldn't be THAT strenuous......right?

Heck, I'd pay someone commission money to get it done. Tali's face reveal= 2nd biggest opportunity lost in ME3, at least for me.

yes, that scene exactly, but i also believe there were a couple of other scenes too in me3 where she goes maskless, 2 times on the homeworld and 1 time on the ship unless im wrong- but you get the general Idea. -the other bit (more transparent faceplate) would only require a reskin of her normal model, one that shows her face "more" maybe not 100% clear, but something that adds more to her image without robbing tali of her mystique you know?

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

OK: I'm going to look into the idea of how difficult it would be to delete the visor from the model and import that just in game, just as a proof of concept. I might have a friend who could do this. It also might be insanely more complicated than I think because I've never touched mesh importing, so no promises.

I have zero modelling skills and cannot and will not be able to sculpt a face, but I see what's available or doable right at the moment with a WIP model. From there we might see effort put into file experimentation like MEHEM/coding new features to facilitate this idea, because interest -> things getting done to accommodate them. (Within reason - somethings are desired but hard.)

Assuming nothing explodes and dies, you're more likely to see a working "visible Tali face as he comes in from the romance scene" than a Rannoch reveal. Because you can "trick" the game easier there because of the sequence breaking -> install mod, load final mission -> next screen, go into ME3 Explorer, replace default files -> resume. There is no easy way to exploit these other Rannoch scenes because there isn't a clean, long "load break" to do this.

Сообщение изменено: PKchu, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 03:46 .

[badmojo88]

PKchu wrote...

Sure, you could do something with the default quarian face. Between Daro'Xen/co having a more full version of it if you needed to hack something together, you could probably make a WIP visible face as a proof of concept relatively quickly with the lowest amount of knowledge in tweaking with models.

Ignoring the camera angle...

The next problem that jumps out to me is if you make her face visible, is it...going to stay still the entire time? Because that would be creepy.

And I'm assuming you only want the face visible in certain cutscenes, right? The mesh replacer swaps it for all the times you see the face period. So you'd have to make her face visible at all times or mod it in between loading times. That would work for say, the final romance scene, but definitely not for Rannoch. That would...yeah, if you wanted a seamless integration, that would require a lot more control over how the game works than we currently have, forcing a different texture "call" at the time with no in-game prompt to do so.

Probably the best way to approach it would be to simply try to get it working step by step and piecemeal, work on getting a placeholder face in-game at all, then see it what it does with facial animations (I'm guessing it would just stay frozen), then implement it with the romance scene, then see if we could get the face "rigged" (< - suddenly things become complicated), then see if we could mess with the Rannoch sequence in terms of loading the proper face (< - oh god, it is all burning). Right now if you change the camera angle, you see Tali taking off her mask and her old mask stays there.

Yeah, a lot of obstacles. ...but we can replace meshes. :V

hmm...i believe the 'meshes' are already within the game data, they simply arnt textured at all, kind of like the "under the mask" mod for tali for me1, it took the glass away but her face was just a skinless mesh. pretty sure bio didnt make an entirely new model for those scenes, just deleted the plate and panned the cameria to the back and didnt bother with a texture. so again would likely only require a reskin

Сообщение изменено: badmojo88, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 03:50 .

[FlyinElk212]

PKchu wrote...

The mesh replacer swaps it for all the times you see the face period. So you'd have to make her face visible at all times or mod it in between loading times. That would work for say, the final romance scene, but definitely not for Rannoch. That would...yeah, if you wanted a seamless integration, that would require a lot more control over how the game works than we currently have, forcing a different texture "call" at the time with no in-game prompt to do so.

Blergh.........

From a cinematic standpoint, the last scene in Rannoch is where the best opportunity arises to finally see Tali's face. The point of the reveal wouldn't be Tali's face itself--it'd be the emotions on Tali's face as she cracks a smile, realizing that after decades of hard work, she finally has a place to call home. It'd be the first time the audience gets to visibly see the emotion Tali's exhibiting; what the face actually looks like would be a secondary factor. Which is quite amazing if you consider the dilemma surrounding the reveal to begin with.

But like you said, forcing a different texture on a model mid-scene is currently beyond our comprehension (see what I did there??), and it'd be kinda creepy if after seeing the face, it didn't move at all......so we're gonna have our work cut out for us.

Probably the best way to approach it would be:

1. Try to get it working step by step and piecemeal, work on getting a placeholder face in-game at all, then see it what it does with facial animations (I'm guessing it would just stay frozen)
2. Implement it with the romance scene, then see if we could get the face "rigged"
3. See if we could mess with the Rannoch sequence in terms of loading the proper face

Sounds like a good battle strat to me. Now we just need the manpower! Thanks for the imput PKchu. I've got a couple of modeler friends over at BrawlVault who might be interested in taking a crack at this as well. I'll let you know if anything develops.

Сообщение изменено: FlyinElk212, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 03:52 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

You're not understanding me or I'm not being clear - when Tali takes off her mask on Rannoch, it is literally the same model, yes, but...

It sounds like you're saying we replace the mesh with a tweaked re-skin face and somehow, when she takes off the mask, have her actually remove it dynamically in game. That is not a thing we can currently do because we have very little control over telling the game to do exact new things. What currently happens in game is there are _two_ masks for that scene and the old one stays there. It doesn't show her face without the visor, so we can't just turn the camera. You'd just see this.

Mesh importing as it currently exists replaces the model totally in every instance - so what I was describing either her face is visible the whole time or someone how you pull up a load time of an entirely different ID'd model and texture (currently impossible on both fronts).

[FlyinElk212]

badmojo88 wrote...

hmm...i believe the 'meshes' are already within the game data, they simply arnt textured at all, kind of like the "under the mask" mod for tali for me1, it took the glass away but her face was just a skinless mesh. pretty sure bio didnt make an entirely new model for those scenes, just deleted the plate and panned the cameria to the back and didnt bother with a texture. so again would likely only require a reskin

If Tali's mask-off worked the same way it did in Mass Effect 2, Bioware actually doesn't reveal the face texture after removing the visor--there's simply another visor underneath it and the camera disguises the fact that there's another visor underneath the first.

Although I do recall someone finding this weird moldly looking face underneath Tali's mask once someone fiddled around with files. If said model also exists in ME3, then maybe it's possible to work with that?

EDIT: Found it--

[badmojo88]

if one thing ive learned over the years is never underestimate the fans- ive seen total conversions that were said at the time could never be done but were, starcraft into gundam, freelancer into star wars and then wing commander, not to mention the massive mods for morrowind, oblivion, skyrim, DAO,DAA,DA2, witcher 1 and 2 all that would make ones head spin, mass effect 3 is just another game that will be modded, one way or another. nothing can change this, its more a matter of when then if. I am more wondering if something like this has been or could be attempted being it isnt changing the game in an extreme way.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Elk: This is the face in ME3, post-Jean Luc's texture edit. Here

I have some more things to say about the feasibility of the project and some other stuff, but give me a second.

[badmojo88]

PKchu wrote...

Elk: This is the face in ME3, post-Jean Luc's texture edit. Here

I have some more things to say about the feasibility of the project and some other stuff, but give me a second.

"the project" ..hmm...that sounds promising:) have i started something with this chain of thought?

[FlyinElk212]

PKchu wrote...

Elk: This is the face in ME3, post-Jean Luc's texture edit. Here

I have some more things to say about the feasibility of the project and some other stuff, but give me a second.

Ooh la laaa!

Jean Luc's seriously the man. Alright, lemme see what I can do in terms of whipping up interest.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Elk wrote...

Sounds like a good battle strat to me. Now we just need the manpower! Thanks for the imput PKchu.

Yeah - while this may not be what everyone would like to hear, mods like this progress piece by piece. There's a steamroller effect: people are more willing to take issues on as you eliminate the problem at the foundations. 

"Make a Tali face mod" is not a compelling thing to anyone. Listing off the steps and making it closer and closer? That may draw interest of coders, modellers, texture artists, etc. I started messing with editing the Stargazer scene for example because MEHEM inspired me to pick up ME3 Explorer. Here, it's the same idea: there are a *lot* of Talimancers out there and if you give them something to be inspired by, you might see the pieces fall into place.

And to be honest, I always feel underqualified to post in these discussions, it's just that so few people have looked into using ME3 Explorer that it's me or bust, and I'll have to try and not screw up the information the best I can. :V

Elk writes...

I've got a couple of modeler friends over at BrawlVault who might be interested in taking a crack at this as well. I'll let you know if anything develops.

This would be great, I do not have any of these kind of connections. Having the actual "model" done would be a great war asset () for this project.

badmojo88 wrote...

if one thing ive learned over the years is never underestimate the fans . . . nothing can change this, its more a matter of when then if. I am more wondering if something like this has been or could be attempted being it isnt changing the game in an extreme way.

Let me put this into perspective: there are like, two or so people working on coding ME3 Explorer. There are a few more people who understand how to use ME3 Explorer because it's not a user friendly program and actual information on how to use it is hard to find. There isn't also an outreach effort to get people to start tinkering with ME3 Explorer.

This is why I am answering the questions about it in this thread instead of someone who knows what they are talking about.

To say, "the fans'll do it, it's a matter of when..." There is not a ME2 Explorer with all sorts of awesome fan-made side quests like I've always wanted. People have to want to model and code these things. I wanted a hi-res version of Tali's alternate outfit, had to do it myself, but when I posted it, lots of people were happy to see it. It's the same idea - interest isn't going to get it done alone.

This thread is literally the most organized discussion of actually doing a Tali's face mod, unfortunately. 

Any kind of mod is not going to come from inertia, but the time and hard work of people willing to invest in learning how to use ME3 Explorer or even coding new features in to do some of the stuff thats been suggested in this thread. If Mr. Fob had not said, "Hey, I'll make an ending mod," we still wouldn't have one.

Also - the level of editing you're talking about is actually a huge undertaking, given how we can actually "interact" with ME3. It's a simple sounding change and detail, a minor change that would mean a whole lot in terms of emotional story impact, but it's way more complicated to change than you would expect. Especially when you don't have actual official mod tools - the other games you listed for the most part are nowhere near as locked down as ME3.

Сообщение изменено: PKchu, 11 Декабрь 2012 - 04:37 .

[badmojo88]

honestly i think it comes down to the demand of the fans, one reason people dont mod me2 or at least try to i believe despite a minority of players most people were 100% satisfied with me2 for the most part, as most were with 1, but you do see mods for me2 involving skins and models, new hairs, samara's costume for femshep etc etc, but what lacks in me2 is abundant in me3 a demand for improvements that i think will drive fan projects forward more than anything.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Also there is a tutorial section on the ME3 Explorer website. For example I wrote this one on sorting through and understanding basic files.

Spoiler alert too: I'm also working on a website (learning HTML/CSS as well ') which will have tutorials for how to use Texmod, Gibbed Save Editor, ME 3 Explorer, etc. Hopefully that'll be up sooner than later and I'll make a bunch of new tutorials on how to actually join and be apart of the whole "ME3 Explorer modding" community.

badmojo88 wrote...

"the project" ..hmm...that sounds promising:) have i started something with this chain of thought?

Ehh, I've kicked this idea around ever since the mesh importing tool became a working thing, it's just I always figured it would be someone else doing it/organizing it. For some reason though, the mod just hasn't appeared out of thin air yet.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

badmojo88 wrote...

honestly i think it comes down to the demand of the fans, one reason people dont mod me2 or at least try to i believe despite a minority of players most people were 100% satisfied with me2 for the most part, as most were with 1, but you do see mods for me2 involving skins and models, new hairs, samara's costume for femshep etc etc, but what lacks in me2 is abundant in me3 a demand for improvements that i think will drive fan projects forward more than anything.

You see those mods for ME2 because you can do them with our current tools like Texmod. I would have already been working on ME2 modules if we could make them.

Mass Effect 2 doesn't have _mod tools_ and it's files are all locked up and very hard to edit. "Fan demand" doesn't really matter if it's impossible to edit things. You have to design a tool _just_ to even change the game. 

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to stress the idea the amount of difficulty in changing what you want to change is a lot higher than you think it is.

[badmojo88]

well sadly my skills at modding ended in the dos era, however! *picks up pom poms* i can cheerlead for you all:D "no helmet! no helmet! sis boom ba! talimancers! talimancers! ra! ra! ra!" ~helps?