277 réponses à ce sujet

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Does that conclusion means that you are starting to like my Controlled Synthesis concept?

I choose Control to perform Synthesis in the future. Perform in much more constructive manner - without destroying Citadel, without damaging Relays, and without sacrificing anyone. Shepard's harvested essence is already among the Reapers. Crucible is still in place. All Shepard-Catalyst needs is some time to improve Synthesis mechanics.

Why didn't the original Catalyst do that itself? Synthesis has to be developed completely first, and we all know the only way the Catalyst can develop it - by harvesting civilizations. Well, and we know that Synthesis also requires a very particular anomaly to be completed - someone like Shepard, who was found by the Catalyst only in current Cycle.

Sorry, but I like Destroy and Renegade Control, depending on how dictatorial I'm feeling

But that would be a nice way to implement synthesis over time, and not do it without changing every sapient being, without their consent

I see.

I think you might want to read this (if you didn't do that already of course): 
http://social.biowar.../index/13740862

...Do you like that kind of long-term consequences of the endings?

I see Seival again advertising and ressurecting his old threads with pointless posts, just to keep them alive....

[Seival]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Does that conclusion means that you are starting to like my Controlled Synthesis concept?

I choose Control to perform Synthesis in the future. Perform in much more constructive manner - without destroying Citadel, without damaging Relays, and without sacrificing anyone. Shepard's harvested essence is already among the Reapers. Crucible is still in place. All Shepard-Catalyst needs is some time to improve Synthesis mechanics.

Why didn't the original Catalyst do that itself? Synthesis has to be developed completely first, and we all know the only way the Catalyst can develop it - by harvesting civilizations. Well, and we know that Synthesis also requires a very particular anomaly to be completed - someone like Shepard, who was found by the Catalyst only in current Cycle.

Sorry, but I like Destroy and Renegade Control, depending on how dictatorial I'm feeling

But that would be a nice way to implement synthesis over time, and not do it without changing every sapient being, without their consent

I see.

I think you might want to read this (if you didn't do that already of course): 
http://social.biowar.../index/13740862

...Do you like that kind of long-term consequences of the endings?

I see Seival again advertising and ressurecting his old threads with pointless posts, just to keep them alive....

I've already seen your opinion on the matter. I want to know what other people think about the theory. Your own opinion is not "the only one possible".

[InvincibleHero]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

N7 Shadow 90 wrote...

Nice post! I agree that a lot of the complaining, about the ending, is completely uncalled for, and sometimes even completely untrue, in some cases.
P.S. There should be a link, in my sig, to a group that you may be interested in.

Ahem.

Said review came out 12 days after the game was released and even references the take back movement, he supports day 1 dlc hate of Javik being indispensible to story, and carries on their arguments and shows quite a lot of bias and contempt of the ending and insults any that would actually like it. It is a garbage opinion piece not a rational review. The 2.5 out of 5 might be a fair rating based on opinion if the author didn't submit to public admission of obvious bias.

His out of control rhetoric and sensationalism paint him as an attention seeker that did not get his way and so thows a tantrum of epic proportions. The part equating the ending with your father dressed as santa dying on Christams is so out of whack to question sanity of said author or extreme bias which I have chosen to do. Hyperbole designed to damage the source that is written about nothing more.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 12 décembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You clearly didn't play Leviathan DLC. Or just didn't listen to what Leviathan told us.

How do you think I know what you're saying is conjecture? 

I think it's clear that you didn't play Leviathan DLC. Also, it's very doubtful that you tried to view dialogue with the Leviathan carefully enough via youtube.

EDIT:
Here, take a look:
http://www.youtube.c...dh01_Fbs#t=309s
But watch and listen carefully this time... Especially "physical data drawn from organic life" and "you are an anomaly" parts.

It's still conjecture. 

[Steelcan]

I think that's a good idea for a ME4, whether or not it anything like that happens is another matter entirely.

[Beama Beorhtost]

I don't know if someone asked already as the thread is too long and my lunch break is nearly over, but I'd like to know which planet Seival come from as it looks like they published a different version of the mass effect trilogy. As someone that has played multiple playthroughs of the ME games (but for the third when 2 have been more than enough and I blame Leviathan for the second one) I really don't recognize the main themes the OP is talking about. Might be wrong but it looks to me that we played completely different games...

[Major.Joe.Kickass]

I wonder what its like to be that stupid.

It must be fun.

[Uncle Jo]

Major.Joe.Kickass wrote...

I wonder what its like to be that stupid.

It must be fun.

He's not stupid. A master troll probably, but not stupid. His propaganda OP reminds me of the good old "Diversants Theory" in the Stalin times.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 12 décembre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Reth Shepherd]

Hey Seival, this is off topic, but I'm currently conducting a poll to see if there's a correlation between religion and one's ending choice. Would you be interested in participating? I'm VERY curious about which direction you happen to lean! If you're up for it, the poll is here, and the thread for the poll is here. If not, thanks anyway, I understand.

I was going to put an on topic discussion in this paragraph, but I just re-read your opening post and I have no idea where to start! I'm pretty much going to have to leave this as: our views are so far apart that there's no real point in debating. You look at the evidence and see one thing, I look at it and have no idea how you reached the conclusions you did. Neither of us is going to convince the other, and what's the point in debating if I can't even follow your logic? All I can say is this: maybe the anger was helped along by an outside force, maybe not. I personally doubt it; I've seen enough genuinely hurting people to believe the movement ignited on its own. Me, personally? That ending hit me like a truck. My shock was very real, as was the anger and pain when I realized that Bioware really DID intend this to be 'the' ending and they weren't releasing the 'real' ending later. 9 months later, it still hurts badly enough that I feel physically sick to the stomach just thinking about reinstalling ME3. I realize I will probably be dismissed as a 'plant', but that's how I feel. Take that as you will.

[archangel1996]

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

[Reth Shepherd]

archangel1996 wrote...

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Have you ever heard the old customer service truism, 'you have 10 unhappy customers for every 1 who complains'? A ****ton times 10 is a very big number indeed. What Seival has not done is prove that the silent majority feels any different from the vocal minority. I look forward to his/her attempts to do so, and I hope s/he posts it at or before midnight Eastern time. It's going to be another long day at work, and I could use the pick-me-up. <3

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 12 décembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[AresKeith]

*looks in Seival thread*

sigh

*leaves*

[blueumi]

no ending fiasco

so bioware did not do FREE DLC to try and do a better job with the ending

the co founders of bioware did not leave yeah this ending went down very well

also just throwing out odd statistics does not show any planning for that ending in mass effect 1 or 2

consistent and logical no it's not

star child said he is the citadel don't remember seeing him when we kicked sovereign and saren ass

also why did saren need the beacon  it made sense when we thought that the citadel was prothean  but now we know it's not why would he need help to get on the citadel when it is now star child he could just let saren fly in

Modifié par blueumi, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[M Hedonist]

Conspiracies! Conspiracies everywhere!

[M Hedonist]

Imo, Seival already jumped the shark when he openly embraced misanthropy... this is just silly shenanigans in comparison.

[Ticonderoga117]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Said review came out 12 days after the game was released and even references the take back movement, he supports day 1 dlc hate of Javik being indispensible to story, and carries on their arguments and shows quite a lot of bias and contempt of the ending and insults any that would actually like it. It is a garbage opinion piece not a rational review. The 2.5 out of 5 might be a fair rating based on opinion if the author didn't submit to public admission of obvious bias.

His out of control rhetoric and sensationalism paint him as an attention seeker that did not get his way and so thows a tantrum of epic proportions. The part equating the ending with your father dressed as santa dying on Christams is so out of whack to question sanity of said author or extreme bias which I have chosen to do. Hyperbole designed to damage the source that is written about nothing more.

So a review that goes into why bad ending is bad, is worse than reviews that completely gloss over the ending and any problems in the game while giving it the best rating possible?

Ok, sure. Whatever.

[Peranor]

BD Manchild wrote...

A whole ton of nonsense, no attempts to back up assertions, snide insults at people who disagree with them...

Yup, this is a Seival thread, alright. Abandon hope, all ye who enter.

Indeed

[Unschuld]

 So what you're saying is... All three Mass Effects are logically correct and have great story that makes perfect sense because this...



... lines up perfectly with the story structure/timing.... regardless of the actual content.

Yes, I can get on board with this idea. Great work as always, Seival. All these other nay-saying posters are loonies.

[Reth Shepherd]

Koobismo wrote...

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way" (at least that's my impression, don't know if a correct one). Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly evaporates and is supplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

You know, one of the big things I loved about Mass Effect is that it didn't treat the Geth vs Quarians as any different from Krogan vs Salarians/Turians, or Humans vs Turians or any other major species conflict introduced during the series.

[Reth Shepherd]

Everyone always talks about the impossibility of conventional victory. Know what would have made it instantly possible, and added in a few hard choices while keeping to the themes and feel of the series? A Reaper civil war. The Reapers have been shown as being at least partially individualistic. They were created from the genetic material and memories of murdered races. Surely SOME of them have to disagree with what they're doing! And for the first time, a cycle is managing to stand up to the Reapers. Not very well, and we're still going to be crushed in the end...unless. Introduce a rogue faction of Reapers. Freedom, disagreeing with the ideals of their leaders, simple revenge. There could be any number of reasons why they'd want to split off. How about us? Do we trust them? Do we turn them away? Do we make backup plans behind their backs or do we throw our full backing behind them? A story that could take any number of twists and turns, major decisions that could utterly destroy us or see us still standing as the dawn breaks.

Instead, we got Starboy.

EDIT: And for teh awezomeness, a Banshee-fied Morinth...
...
...
...
...
...squadmate.

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:50 .

[pablosplinter]

Seival wrote...


...There was no "ending fiasco". There was an attempt to attack BioWare's reputation. And that attempt has failed eventually.

[Seival]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Have you ever heard the old customer service truism, 'you have 10 unhappy customers for every 1 who complains'? A ****ton times 10 is a very big number indeed. What Seival has not done is prove that the silent majority feels any different from the vocal minority. I look forward to his/her attempts to do so, and I hope s/he posts it at or before midnight Eastern time. It's going to be another long day at work, and I could use the pick-me-up. <3

I can't prove my assumptions on the matter directly just like you can't prove your assumptions on the matter directly. Noone actually can do that. BUT...

...We can always observe some secondary clues, right? BioWare already stated that Leviathan DLC is bestseller among all ME Trilogy DLCs. We are talking about DLC everyone knew will not affect the ending. And it was sold better than for example LotSB for ME2, which would be impossible if most people disliked the ending.

ME3 was successful. BioWare sells SP DLCs to the game very nicely, and already announced next ME game. These can only be the signs about most people liked the ending and the game in general. Majority of people at least accepted the ending as it is, and chosen their favorite final(s). You can argue with that, but you can't prove I'm wrong.

[Applepie_Svk]

Reth Shepherd wrote...


You know, one of the big things I loved about Mass Effect is that it didn't treat the Geth vs Quarians as any different from Krogan vs Salarians/Turians, or Humans vs Turians or any other major species conflict introduced during the series.

suddenly now it´s a main theme... 

Unschuld wrote...

 So what you're saying is... All three Mass Effects are logically correct and have great story that makes perfect sense because this...



... lines up perfectly with the story structure/timing.... regardless of the actual content. 

Yes, I can get on board with this idea. Great work as always, Seival. All these other nay-saying posters are loonies.

By this logic would be every book, film or game which live up with such a structure great idea... and that´s false, you are not looking on such product thru structure but thru content inside of this structure. While ME1 had a structure which got a great content, ME2 starts with lack of good content despite it was still success because BioWare brought or better said improved character elements, ME3 had lack of both - storytelling and characters, but mainly good storytelling.
There is so many missing links or blind alleys which heading to nowhere...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Reth Shepherd]

Seival wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Have you ever heard the old customer service truism, 'you have 10 unhappy customers for every 1 who complains'? A ****ton times 10 is a very big number indeed. What Seival has not done is prove that the silent majority feels any different from the vocal minority. I look forward to his/her attempts to do so, and I hope s/he posts it at or before midnight Eastern time. It's going to be another long day at work, and I could use the pick-me-up. <3

I can't prove my assumptions on the matter directly just like you can't prove your assumptions on the matter directly. Noone actually can do that. BUT...

...We can always observe some secondary clues, right? BioWare already stated that Leviathan DLC is bestseller among all ME Trilogy DLCs. We are talking about DLC everyone knew will not affect the ending. And it was sold better than for example LotSB for ME2, which would be impossible if most people disliked the ending.

ME3 was successful. BioWare sells SP DLCs to the game very nicely, and already announced next ME game. These can only be the signs about most people liked the ending and the game in general. Majority of people at least accepted the ending as it is, and chosen their favorite final(s). You can argue with that, but you can't prove I'm wrong.

Levi sold better than From Ashes because they didn't count the ones that came bundled with the Collector's Edition. (I specifically asked; I can make a screenshot of the message after work if you'd like.) From Ashes was also being boycotted by many, if you recall. Levi was also popularly rumored to alter the ending. As for Omega, it's a big question mark. I can't get ANYONE to comment on how well it sold. No replies from the majority of the people I've messaged, the three who did said they didn't know or couldn't comment. The DLCs aren't THAT conclusive a piece of evidence.