277 réponses à ce sujet

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

Reth. hepherd wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Have you ever heard the old customer service truism, 'you have 10 unhappy customers for every 1 who complains'? A ****ton times 10 is a very big number indeed. What Seival has not done is prove that the silent majority feels any different from the vocal minority. I look forward to his/her attempts to do so, and I hope s/he posts it at or before midnight Eastern time. It's going to be another long day at work, and I could use the pick-me-up. <3

I can't prove my assumptions on the matter directly just like you can't prove your assumptions on the matter directly. Noone actually can do that. BUT...

...We can always observe some secondary clues, right? BioWare already stated that Leviathan DLC is bestseller among all ME Trilogy DLCs. We are talking about DLC everyone knew will not affect the ending. And it was sold better than for example LotSB for ME2, which would be impossible if most people disliked the ending.

ME3 was successful. BioWare sells SP DLCs to the game very nicely, and already announced next ME game. These can only be the signs about most people liked the ending and the game in general. Majority of people at least accepted the ending as it is, and chosen their favorite final(s). You can argue with that, but you can't prove I'm wrong.

Where do you come up with this crap?  It was well known that leviathan was going to alter the ending with dialog before it was released. This fact alone shows that people wanted more from the ending than we got. It could also be assumed that the reason it sold so well was because people weren't happy with the endings. You can't prove me wrong.

[Applepie_Svk]

Reth Shepherd wrote...


Levi sold better than From Ashes because they didn't count the ones that came bundled with the Collector's Edition. (I specifically asked; I can make a screenshot of the message after work if you'd like.) From Ashes was also being boycotted by many, if you recall. Levi was also popularly rumored to alter the ending. As for Omega, it's a big question mark. I can't get ANYONE to comment on how well it sold. No replies from the majority of the people I've messaged, the three who did said they didn't know or couldn't comment. The DLCs aren't THAT conclusive a piece of evidence.

That would be nice punch to teeths if they showed up numbers from DAY1 dlc, though From Ashes was a way better then Leviathan or Omega and yet it still should be part of Vanilla game.

Leviathan and this so called rumor was again work of IGN with their ignorance where they asked about this in their interview where Gamble said and repeat that Leviathan is not going to change anything just add little rift and they have to released next day that Leviathan is going to change endings of ME3.

Omega is pretty much edge to the abyss with long fall, I doubt that it sold well not to mention that even reviewers which gave ME3 before 9+ were now more reserved in their judgment.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:06 .

[Seival]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So...vocal minority vs silent majority uh? this makes sense
<_<



...This definitely does make sense......

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Have you ever heard the old customer service truism, 'you have 10 unhappy customers for every 1 who complains'? A ****ton times 10 is a very big number indeed. What Seival has not done is prove that the silent majority feels any different from the vocal minority. I look forward to his/her attempts to do so, and I hope s/he posts it at or before midnight Eastern time. It's going to be another long day at work, and I could use the pick-me-up. <3

I can't prove my assumptions on the matter directly just like you can't prove your assumptions on the matter directly. Noone actually can do that. BUT...

...We can always observe some secondary clues, right? BioWare already stated that Leviathan DLC is bestseller among all ME Trilogy DLCs. We are talking about DLC everyone knew will not affect the ending. And it was sold better than for example LotSB for ME2, which would be impossible if most people disliked the ending.

ME3 was successful. BioWare sells SP DLCs to the game very nicely, and already announced next ME game. These can only be the signs about most people liked the ending and the game in general. Majority of people at least accepted the ending as it is, and chosen their favorite final(s). You can argue with that, but you can't prove I'm wrong.

Levi sold better than From Ashes because they didn't count the ones that came bundled with the Collector's Edition. (I specifically asked; I can make a screenshot of the message after work if you'd like.) From Ashes was also being boycotted by many, if you recall. Levi was also popularly rumored to alter the ending. As for Omega, it's a big question mark. I can't get ANYONE to comment on how well it sold. No replies from the majority of the people I've messaged, the three who did said they didn't know or couldn't comment. The DLCs aren't THAT conclusive a piece of evidence.

Don't try to gerrymander, please...

...Leviathan DLC was sold better than any of ME Trilogy DLCs, including the ones for ME2. BioWare stated that officially. And everyone knew that Leviathan DLC will not alter the endings in any way. Such DLC could only be the most successful if most players liked the game and its ending.

...Also, don't forget to keep in mind that they announced next ME game while they are still supporting ME3. And ME3 intended to be the end of Shepard's story. Such a fast announce of completely new game in ME Universe can only be a sign of ME3 and the entire ME Trilogy being very successful.

[Iakus]

Seival wrote...
Don't try to gerrymander, please...

...Leviathan DLC was sold better than any of ME Trilogy DLCs, including the ones for ME2. BioWare stated that officially. And everyone knew that Leviathan DLC will not alter the endings in any way. Such DLC could only be the most successful if most players liked the game and its ending.

...Also, don't forget to keep in mind that they announced next ME game while they are still supporting ME3. And ME3 intended to be the end of Shepard's story. Such a fast announce of completely new game in ME Universe can only be a sign of ME3 and the entire ME Trilogy being very successful.

Bolded part is not true.

There were rumors well before the DLC was released that it would alter the endings. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

gerrymander : a district or pattern of districts varying greatly in size or population as a result of gerrymandering

Or am I missing something?

Also not everyone knew about it not changing the ending , some still believed/hoped for IT confirmation. Or that the Leviathan advertised as a "Reapers killer" would make conventional victory possible.

[RiouHotaru]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Plus, they're already delusional that the ending was "deep and emotional" even before the EC, so I doubt anything would help.

...What emotions or feelings the ending, vanilla or otherwise, invoked in any person is a matter of preference and personal taste.  It's not "delusional" for them to have this point of view, because you assume only someone who's delusional would like the endings.

Honestly, the observation of when certain elements in the plot isn't incorrect.

[Tomwew]

3.55 "it still serves it's pupose"

5.50 "its purpose has not been fulfilled"



its very hard to take the leviathans as anything more than a lazy attempt to justify the catalyst when it contradicts itself, adds no real new information, is basically forgotten about after the dlc and when it could tell you what the catalyst is, but you neither ask nor does it tell. screw leviathan!

[lmxar]

Seival wrote...


Don't try to gerrymander, please...

Do you even know what that word means?  Reading through this thread, I am trying to follow your reasoning, but I am starting to realize that there is none.

I was not happy about the endings, and I am still not thrilled... but the EC at least helped some.  Enough that I can at least be willing to play through the game again.

[Tomwew]

Seival wrote...

Don't try to gerrymander, please...

...Leviathan DLC was sold better than any of ME Trilogy DLCs, including the ones for ME2. BioWare stated that officially. And everyone knew that Leviathan DLC will not alter the endings in any way. Such DLC could only be the most successful if most players liked the game and its ending.

...Also, don't forget to keep in mind that they announced next ME game while they are still supporting ME3. And ME3 intended to be the end of Shepard's story. Such a fast announce of completely new game in ME Universe can only be a sign of ME3 and the entire ME Trilogy being very successful.

bioware also stated there wouldn't be a,b or c endings, that multiplayer wouldn't affect your ability to get the best ending (fixed, but was still a lie) that the rachni would play an essential role in the end game, that there would be definitive closure (you can argue that there is definitive closure but the mantra " lots of speculation from everyone" is antithesis to definitive closure) that mass effect isn't just "magic in space," and probably more i'm forgetting, but my point is, don't put much stock in what bioware officially states, they've proven to be liars.

[M Hedonist]

Presenting... my Seival Rifftrax. Read Seival's bat**** insane posts accompanied by my rather amateurish commentary.
[quote]Seival wrote...

...All assumptions about "ME3 ending being out of ME Trilogy concept" are invalid. [/quote]
Suck on that, Dark Energy plot.

[quote]ME Trilogy started with organic-vs-synthetic problem, and it ended with resolving (or postponing) organic-vs-synthetic problem.[/quote]
I refuse that notion.

[quote]Moreover, all three parts of the story follow very similar pattern:

 - The Reapers were introduced. 5% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about Saren's motives. 80% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Conduit. Truth about the Citadel. Truth about the Keepers. Vigil discovery. 96% of ME1 playthrough.

 - Collectors were introduced. 5% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Geth. Legion was introduced. 80% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Reapers being half-organic creatures. 99% of ME2 playthrough.

 - Crucible schematics discovered. 5% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Conversation with the Destroyer. Truth about the Reapers' motives. 80% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Catalyst was introduced. The Cycled Harvests concept was explained. 99% of ME3 playthrough.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't think any of that adds up properly.

[quote]The whole story (including the ending) is consistent and logical.[/quote]
Wait, what?
[quote]Nothing is out of place in it.[/quote]
You must've missed the part with the ghost boy.
[quote]The only thing that is out of place here is some people confusion about the game. ME3 hate was just overhyped by some very vocal haters.[/quote]
How can you overhype hate?
[quote]All assumptions about bad writing are invalid. The entire "dislike wave" is purely artificial and doesn't correspond to the real state of things...[/quote]
If you say so. No, you don't have to prove your ridiculous claims, I'll just take your word for it.

[quote]...Someone intentionally tried to sabotage ME3 from outside?[/quote]
I didn't ask that question. And I don't know why anyone would ask that question.
[quote]That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.[/quote]
Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?
[quote]Each based on flawed logic,[/quote]
Well, you're the expert on that.
[quote]using some game bugs, and reviewing phrases/actions out of game context.[/quote]
They criticize game bugs? Now you've got me convinced, these must be hired goons!

[quote]...There was no "ending fiasco".[/quote]
Nevermind the fact Bioware had to make free DLC just to adress the "ending fiasco"!
[quote]There was an attempt to attack BioWare's reputation. And that attempt has failed eventually.[/quote]
And they would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!

[Tomwew]

[quote]Sauruz wrote...

Presenting... my Seival Rifftrax. Read Seival's bat**** insane posts accompanied by my rather amateurish commentary.
[quote]Seival wrote...

...All assumptions about "ME3 ending being out of ME Trilogy concept" are invalid. [/quote]
Suck on that, Dark Energy plot.


[quote]ME Trilogy started with organic-vs-synthetic problem, and it ended with resolving (or postponing) organic-vs-synthetic problem.[/quote]
I refuse that notion.

[quote]Moreover, all three parts of the story follow very similar pattern:

 - The Reapers were introduced. 5% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about Saren's motives. 80% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Conduit. Truth about the Citadel. Truth about the Keepers. Vigil discovery. 96% of ME1 playthrough.

 - Collectors were introduced. 5% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Geth. Legion was introduced. 80% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Reapers being half-organic creatures. 99% of ME2 playthrough.

 - Crucible schematics discovered. 5% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Conversation with the Destroyer. Truth about the Reapers' motives. 80% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Catalyst was introduced. The Cycled Harvests concept was explained. 99% of ME3 playthrough.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't think any of that adds up properly.


[quote]The whole story (including the ending) is consistent and logical.[/quote]
Wait, what?

[quote]Nothing is out of place in it.[/quote]
You must've missed the part with the ghost boy.

[quote]The only thing that is out of place here is some people confusion about the game. ME3 hate was just overhyped by some very vocal haters.[/quote]
How can you overhype hate?

[quote]All assumptions about bad writing are invalid. The entire "dislike wave" is purely artificial and doesn't correspond to the real state of things...[/quote]
If you say so. No, you don't have to prove your ridiculous claims, I'll just take your word for it.


[quote]...Someone intentionally tried to sabotage ME3 from outside?[/quote]
I didn't ask that question. And I don't know why anyone would ask that question.

[quote]That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.[/quote]
Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?

[quote]Each based on flawed logic,[/quote]
Well, you're the expert on that.

[quote]using some game bugs, and reviewing phrases/actions out of game context.[/quote]
They criticize game bugs? Now you've got me convinced, these must be hired goons!


[quote]...There was no "ending fiasco".[/quote]
Nevermind the fact Bioware had to make free DLC just to adress the "ending fiasco"!

[quote]There was an attempt to attack BioWare's reputation. And that attempt has failed eventually.[/quote]
And they would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!
[/quote]
i like you, and you can be my friend

[Applepie_Svk]

[quote]Tomwew wrote...

[quote]Sauruz wrote...

Presenting... my Seival Rifftrax. Read Seival's bat**** insane posts accompanied by my rather amateurish commentary.
[quote]Seival wrote...

...All assumptions about "ME3 ending being out of ME Trilogy concept" are invalid. [/quote]
Suck on that, Dark Energy plot.


[quote]ME Trilogy started with organic-vs-synthetic problem, and it ended with resolving (or postponing) organic-vs-synthetic problem.[/quote]
I refuse that notion.

[quote]Moreover, all three parts of the story follow very similar pattern:

 - The Reapers were introduced. 5% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about Saren's motives. 80% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Conduit. Truth about the Citadel. Truth about the Keepers. Vigil discovery. 96% of ME1 playthrough.

 - Collectors were introduced. 5% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Geth. Legion was introduced. 80% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Reapers being half-organic creatures. 99% of ME2 playthrough.

 - Crucible schematics discovered. 5% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Conversation with the Destroyer. Truth about the Reapers' motives. 80% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Catalyst was introduced. The Cycled Harvests concept was explained. 99% of ME3 playthrough.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't think any of that adds up properly.


[quote]The whole story (including the ending) is consistent and logical.[/quote]
Wait, what?

[quote]Nothing is out of place in it.[/quote]
You must've missed the part with the ghost boy.

[quote]The only thing that is out of place here is some people confusion about the game. ME3 hate was just overhyped by some very vocal haters.[/quote]
How can you overhype hate?

[quote]All assumptions about bad writing are invalid. The entire "dislike wave" is purely artificial and doesn't correspond to the real state of things...[/quote]
If you say so. No, you don't have to prove your ridiculous claims, I'll just take your word for it.


[quote]...Someone intentionally tried to sabotage ME3 from outside?[/quote]
I didn't ask that question. And I don't know why anyone would ask that question.

[quote]That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.[/quote]
Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?

[quote]Each based on flawed logic,[/quote]
Well, you're the expert on that.

[quote]using some game bugs, and reviewing phrases/actions out of game context.[/quote]
They criticize game bugs? Now you've got me convinced, these must be hired goons!


[quote]...There was no "ending fiasco".[/quote]
Nevermind the fact Bioware had to make free DLC just to adress the "ending fiasco"!

[quote]There was an attempt to attack BioWare's reputation. And that attempt has failed eventually.[/quote]
And they would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!
[/quote]
i like you, and you can be my friend [/quote]

BioWare Social Network ™

[GreyLycanTrope]

Sauruz wrote...

That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.

Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?

Was actually my evil twin:
DarkLycantrope!

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Seival wrote...

*snip*

...Someone intentionally tried to sabotage ME3 from outside? That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people. Each based on flawed logic, using some game bugs, and reviewing phrases/actions out of game context.

...There was no "ending fiasco". There was an attempt to attack BioWare's reputation. And that attempt has failed eventually.

OMG OMG

This is better than IT.

[The Night Mammoth]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.

Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?

Was actually my evil twin:
DarkLycantrope!

*gasp* It's him, the greatest criminal mastermind the world has ever seen!

[Applepie_Svk]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

That's quite possible. Because most of "angry reviews" are look like made by hired people.

Hired?? By whom??? The Illuminati? Terrorists? Cobra Commander?

Was actually my evil twin:
DarkLycantrope!

Snake ?! Snake ?!! SNAAAAKEEEEE !!!! 

[Dr_Extrem]

this thread is still alive? .. wow

is seival still preaching? ...

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Main conflict for 2.9 games: Reapers kill advanced civilizations. You need to fix it.
Conflict for the last .1 games: I'm going to tell you that there will always be issues between synthetic and organic life. Those Reapers you have been fighting are actually the good guys! They're keeping the "great cosmic" scales balanced. Now, even though I will completely ignore the fact that you have resolved the outstanding problem between organics and synthetics for the moment in this cycle, I'm asking you to fix a problem that I haven't shown you is actually a problem. Better be quick too, I have a schedule to keep.

So yes, the ending comes right out of left field for no reason at all.

We started ME1 by fighting the geth....

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Main conflict for 2.9 games: Reapers kill advanced civilizations. You need to fix it.
Conflict for the last .1 games: I'm going to tell you that there will always be issues between synthetic and organic life. Those Reapers you have been fighting are actually the good guys! They're keeping the "great cosmic" scales balanced. Now, even though I will completely ignore the fact that you have resolved the outstanding problem between organics and synthetics for the moment in this cycle, I'm asking you to fix a problem that I haven't shown you is actually a problem. Better be quick too, I have a schedule to keep.

So yes, the ending comes right out of left field for no reason at all.

We started ME1 by fighting the geth....

... who sided with the reapers ...

[Seival]

Steelcan wrote...

I think that's a good idea for a ME4, whether or not it anything like that happens is another matter entirely.

Thanks

I really hope that is what will happen. Personally, I believe that inevitable Synthesis (without canonizing any of ME3 endings) is the best possible way to expand ME Universe. Easy enough to implement, plus almost limitless possibilities for the new great story.

Modifié par Seival, 12 décembre 2012 - 09:20 .

[M Hedonist]

Thanks you, thank you, I'll be here all week! Try the veal!

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Main conflict for 2.9 games: Reapers kill advanced civilizations. You need to fix it.
Conflict for the last .1 games: I'm going to tell you that there will always be issues between synthetic and organic life. Those Reapers you have been fighting are actually the good guys! They're keeping the "great cosmic" scales balanced. Now, even though I will completely ignore the fact that you have resolved the outstanding problem between organics and synthetics for the moment in this cycle, I'm asking you to fix a problem that I haven't shown you is actually a problem. Better be quick too, I have a schedule to keep.

So yes, the ending comes right out of left field for no reason at all.

We started ME1 by fighting the geth....

Because clearly, everything but that simple fact is completely unimportant, right? 

We fought the Geth in ME1, that apparently makes it all okay, regardless of what else has happened since. 

[Tomwew]

yeno weird as it sounds (i'ma sound nuts here) this thread is kind of awesome.

it's gone through bioware's lies, the inadequacies of the leviathan dlc, the unimportance of choice, the railroading of auto-dialogue, the logical fallacies of the catalyst and the logical fallacy of the 'vocal minority'

basically all the major problems with ME3 are covered in one thread!

what if Seival's actually a genious and mastermind of the 'take back' movement?

[Peranor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Main conflict for 2.9 games: Reapers kill advanced civilizations. You need to fix it.
Conflict for the last .1 games: I'm going to tell you that there will always be issues between synthetic and organic life. Those Reapers you have been fighting are actually the good guys! They're keeping the "great cosmic" scales balanced. Now, even though I will completely ignore the fact that you have resolved the outstanding problem between organics and synthetics for the moment in this cycle, I'm asking you to fix a problem that I haven't shown you is actually a problem. Better be quick too, I have a schedule to keep.

So yes, the ending comes right out of left field for no reason at all.

We started ME1 by fighting the geth....

Did you know that In 2012 a group of canadian writers was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they committed. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Canadian underground. Today, still wanted by the fans they betrayed, they survive as artists of fortune. If you have a franchise, if you want it dead, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Eh-Team.

[The Night Mammoth]

anorling wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Main conflict for 2.9 games: Reapers kill advanced civilizations. You need to fix it.
Conflict for the last .1 games: I'm going to tell you that there will always be issues between synthetic and organic life. Those Reapers you have been fighting are actually the good guys! They're keeping the "great cosmic" scales balanced. Now, even though I will completely ignore the fact that you have resolved the outstanding problem between organics and synthetics for the moment in this cycle, I'm asking you to fix a problem that I haven't shown you is actually a problem. Better be quick too, I have a schedule to keep.

So yes, the ending comes right out of left field for no reason at all.

We started ME1 by fighting the geth....

Did you know that In 2012 a group of canadian writers was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they committed. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Canadian underground. Today, still wanted by the fans they betrayed, they survive as artists of fortune. If you have a franchise, if you want it dead, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Eh-Team.

Are you watching the A-team in the UK right now?