223 réponses à ce sujet

[Conduit0]

Gotta agree with Lord Sirian, a Huntress may technically be able to deal out more damage, but a melee build Huntress leaves zero room for error, while a Krogan can generally mess up and still get a second chance.

If melee is suppose to be a high risk high reward play style, than it only makes sense from a gameplay perspective that the higher risk melee Huntress build is rewarded with higher damage.

[TheKillerAngel]

Annomander wrote...

rnc007 wrote...

Re: melee builds are meh on gold

GI melee build - super spawn wiping awesome-sauce
Human Adapt melee build - high risk hilarity with right mix of awesome-sauce
Kroguard - I know how you feel about this, but seriously it's grin-inducing
Shadow - Space ninja awesome-sauce (even playing w/o shadow strike)
BroBrawler - Charge then light melee all the things - fun fun fun

I could go on. Some of my best ME3 moments have been playing melee characters on gold.

I burned a respec on this so will try a bit more to make it work but as of now I'm bearish.

Ok, you play a melee build.

I'll play a flamer-less geth soldier.

I'll get feneckus to play drell adept.

And Stardusk can snipe on tsol

Enjoy being "meh" when you are outclassed severely in damage output and nothing more than a glorified decoy.

You listed 2 infiltrators (lawl)
and 2 vanguards (free shields lawl)
and a human adept whom I garauntee is not even close to the huntress

A build can be FUN without being effective.

Melee fury is a blast, is it a chart topper gold build? No, of course not.

Melee krogan is fun, is it powerful enough? Comparatively, there's much room for improvement.

If you really want to make the "realistic" argument, e.g. the "Asari melee being stronger than Krogan melee is ridiculous," melee combat in the far future would in general be absurd. Current technological trends are only increasing the distances between combatants. Swords and spears, then bows, then firearms, then artillery and armor, now air strikes, cruise missiles, and drones. Even if you had gigantic aliens like Krogan, future warfare is extremely unlikely to involve them mashing heads with people. Knowing that melee combat really has no place in a technologically advanced universe functions as an excuse for it being underpowered.

That said, I understand this whole conversation is operating within the context of the Mass Effect universe, which is not really hard sci-fi.

[Doni]

I honestly don't see how this matters, considering there's always a better alternative to melee builds on gold+.

And whining about balance is pointless. The balance as a whole in Mass Effect is completely broken anyway, and nothing short of a redesign from the ground up would fix it, so why whine about one or two smaller aspects of a much wider mess that will never be cleaned up?

This is also assuming balance even matters. It's not like this tacked-on multiplayer component of a singleplayer-focused game is an e-sport.  Play whatever way is fun to you, earn your credits, max your manifest and move on.

Modifié par Scruffaluphagus, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[Stinja]

The numbers might show that the Huntress is better, but trying out a melee build on gold last night didnt go so well... i do far better with my melee-Shaman, or smashguard-whip build.

Not saying she can be made to work, but i re-specced her to power damage and shooting again.

[Untonic]

Don't see problem, I heard that the Huntress's current TC is bugged so bad it won't be fixed til a patch, so they amped her power/melee increase.

I don't expect people to suddenly play her more all of a sudden, after all this game isn't about super speedruns and high DPS... that's COD or other shooters...

[Jon Phoenix]

Oh look more evidence suggesting cloak is broken. The generic damage bonus of cloak breaks everything. Bioware need to change tactical cloak evolutions to give either weapon, power or melee damage bonuses and suddenly a whole lot of the brokenness is removed from the game.

That being said can't wait to try her melee (plus uber boosted biotics) build.

[Shad Croly]

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Modifié par Shad Croly, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:27 .

[BeardyMcGoo]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also the Asari H melee is a very long animation and leaves you extremely vulnerable.

And does not provide DR.

[forehead]

Whole lotta sandy vajajays up in here.

Call me when people start spamming this setup in pug golds and platinums.

(They won't.)

[Conduit0]

Shad Croly wrote...

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Just to add to this.

Krogan Sentinel - 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

So unless Narida is completely off about the Huntress heavy melee base damage, a rage mode Krogan far out strips her heavy melee. Infact, even without rage mode or fort purge, the Krogan soldier manages to eek out a lead over the Huntress at 3412.5/3412.5/3412.5/2559.38

So me thinks the OP needs to provide proof that the Huntress has higher base/modifier damage than what Narida shows or this thread is over.

Modifié par Conduit0, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:45 .

[tonnactus]

BeardyMcGoo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also the Asari H melee is a very long animation and leaves you extremely vulnerable.

And does not provide DR.

??
What? I thought all heavy melees except the Slayer one gives at least 50 percent Dr.

[Lord Rosario]

Asari can't headbutt missiles. Asari also has that ridiculous melee that without cloak, basically kills you to try and do on anything higher than silver.. So, that survivability is quite important. If something decides to ignore your cloak, you can literally die from full barriers being shot at by a single trooper between the time you start the heavy melee and the time it actually starts dealing damage.

If you get killed using a Krogan with Rage, and all the possible bonuses that come with it between the time you start your heavy melee and the time it connects, let me know.. I wanna see the two turrets that dropped you that fast.

[MaxBoss]

I guess Narida does not compute TC's damage bonuses. That being said, I also think the Huntress' buffs are a bit too much anyway. Cloaked DC is truly a fire and forget thing now.

[spudspot]

Conduit0 wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Just to add to this.

Krogan Sentinel - 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

So unless Narida is completely off about the Huntress heavy melee base damage, a rage mode Krogan far out strips her heavy melee. Infact, even without rage mode or fort purge, the Krogan soldier manages to eek out a lead over the Huntress at 3412.5/3412.5/3412.5/2559.38

So me thinks the OP needs to provide proof that the Huntress has higher base/modifier damage than what Narida shows or this thread is over.

Not completely off, but the balance changes haven't been implemented yet.

[Conduit0]

MaxBoss wrote...

I guess Narida does not compute TC's damage bonuses. That being said, I also think the Huntress' buffs are a bit too much anyway. Cloaked DC is truly a fire and forget thing now.

No, Narida does compute TC's damage, you just have to click the check box next to the power's name to see its effect.

[MaxBoss]

Conduit0 wrote...

MaxBoss wrote...

I guess Narida does not compute TC's damage bonuses. That being said, I also think the Huntress' buffs are a bit too much anyway. Cloaked DC is truly a fire and forget thing now.

No, Narida does compute TC's damage, you just have to click the check box next to the power's name to see its effect.

Thank you, I didn't know that.

[BeardyMcGoo]

tonnactus wrote...

BeardyMcGoo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also the Asari H melee is a very long animation and leaves you extremely vulnerable.

And does not provide DR.

??
What? I thought all heavy melees except the Slayer one gives at least 50 percent Dr.

AFAIK, it doesn't. Maybe I'm wrong [shrug].

[Conduit0]

spudspot wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Just to add to this.

Krogan Sentinel - 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

So unless Narida is completely off about the Huntress heavy melee base damage, a rage mode Krogan far out strips her heavy melee. Infact, even without rage mode or fort purge, the Krogan soldier manages to eek out a lead over the Huntress at 3412.5/3412.5/3412.5/2559.38

So me thinks the OP needs to provide proof that the Huntress has higher base/modifier damage than what Narida shows or this thread is over.

Not completely off, but the balance changes haven't been implemented yet.

Ah, you are right, I forgot about that, but even still the difference is minimal, it results in an extra 200 damage to health/shields/barriers, and 150 damage to armor. Which puts the Huntress just barely ahead of a Kroldier with no rage or fort purge.
It still proves the OP wrong unless he can dig up evidence to refute Narida's values.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

With what the devs did to Liara in SP, it is not hard to imagine their asari fetish..Hence the buffs...

[FatalionPanic]

Annomander wrote...
[...]
He has ZERO aoe damage, he requires TWO kills and must sacrifice his damage protection power to reach maximum damage output; gains no 50% modifier versus shields and LOSES 25% damage versus armour.

This might not contribute much but his Light Melee is AoE, a small one and seems like a cone one but it still is more then "ZERO".

This:

BeardyMcGoo wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also the Asari H melee is a very long animation and leaves you extremely vulnerable.

And does not provide DR.

[spudspot]

Conduit0 wrote...

spudspot wrote...

Not completely off, but the balance changes haven't been implemented yet.

Ah, you are right, I forgot about that, but even still the difference is minimal, it results in an extra 200 damage to health/shields/barriers, and 150 damage to armor. Which puts the Huntress just barely ahead of a Kroldier with no rage or fort purge.
It still proves the OP wrong unless he can dig up evidence to refute Narida's values.

Well, I don't know the exact (scottish?) definition of better, but the Asari can hit up to three targets which can  put her above any Krogan kit in terms of "how much damage was dealt".

Still, I think that her heavy melee has too many drawbacks compared to the Krogan's to judge their effectiveness on the basis of damage alone.

Btw, is the TC melee bonus additive or multiplicative? 

[Siran]

Why was the Kroguard left out again? Since, you know, he's only the most versatile melee Krogan there is, especially with charge's melee synergy. So, just keep him out to make a stronger argument, got it.

[FatalionPanic]

Siran wrote...

Why was the Kroguard left out again? Since, you know, he's only the most versatile melee Krogan there is, especially with charge's melee synergy. So, just keep him out to make a stronger argument, got it.

lol the what?
nice trolling

[HolyAvenger]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

More damage, yes, but far less survivable.

But IMO, melee classes in this game are underpowered as a general rule. Getting close is punished heavily by sync-kill units and stagger units, and you get very little reward for going to the trouble of getting so close.

Buff melee pls Biower.

I actually don't mind this. It always bothered me that in the future space warfare, hitting things with your fist or elbow, no matter how cybernetically augmented was as effective as punching a hole throught it with a hypervelocity anti-tank sniper rifle

[HolyAvenger]

Xaijin wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Asari are better than krogan at war, all aspects of it.  They are the finest soldiers in the galaxy, everyone's thankful there's so few of them. 


DealwithitB) 

Lore and game says otherwise, inlcuding the chick in charge of 1/3 of the Thessian military, and pretty much the de facto leader of their covert ops.

IDGAF about this whole Krogan and Asari thing actually, but when does that happen? My memory is foggy.