223 réponses à ce sujet

[Siran]

FatalionPanic wrote...

Siran wrote...

Why was the Kroguard left out again? Since, you know, he's only the most versatile melee Krogan there is, especially with charge's melee synergy. So, just keep him out to make a stronger argument, got it.

lol the what?
nice trolling

OP claims the kroguard is not a "real" Krogan and left it out of his considerations. I'd like to know why. Especially as a melee build he's awesome since the last patch.

[FatalionPanic]

Siran wrote...

FatalionPanic wrote...

Siran wrote...

Why was the Kroguard left out again? Since, you know, he's only the most versatile melee Krogan there is, especially with charge's melee synergy. So, just keep him out to make a stronger argument, got it.

lol the what?
nice trolling

OP claims the kroguard is not a "real" Krogan and left it out of his considerations. I'd like to know why. Especially as a melee build he's awesome since the last patch.

I can't speak for the OP but for me I'd exclude the Kroguard posting with the intention of achieving a general pro-buff perception while claiming to not have that in mind.

[Siran]

FatalionPanic wrote...

Siran wrote...

FatalionPanic wrote...

Siran wrote...

Why was the Kroguard left out again? Since, you know, he's only the most versatile melee Krogan there is, especially with charge's melee synergy. So, just keep him out to make a stronger argument, got it.

lol the what?
nice trolling

OP claims the kroguard is not a "real" Krogan and left it out of his considerations. I'd like to know why. Especially as a melee build he's awesome since the last patch.

I can't speak for the OP but for me I'd exclude the Kroguard posting with the intention of achieving a general pro-buff perception while claiming to not have that in mind.

Exactly my thoughts

[megabeast37215]

Agree with OP that melee in pretty much the entire game needs buffed.

Do not agree with all the negatives he paints Infiltrators and Vanguards with. That's like missing out on 1/3 of the game due to pride/arrogance. Kinda dumb...

[RiouHotaru]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ha

Lovaas wrote...

The asari recovery time is an enemy to that strategy. While you finish her pillow talk animations you would get picked off by a sion/ravager/phantom/rocket pooper every time. Yes the numbers are in the Asari's favor but you have to consider:

1. No self respecting krogan forgives all health and damage reduction just to gain more melee damage on a race that already has superior melee capabilities.

2. Orgasm animation is a death trap when her melee is used unwisely.

This is the battle of what happens on paper versus what happens on the battlefield argument we see constantly on bsn. 
inb4 all infiltrators are op. 

I love that you're making an excuse for the fact that a damn Asari can now be speced to have a more power melee than a Krogan.  Before arguing, just take a minute to think about how ridiculous this is.

BioWare is turning this game into a ****ing joke.  Every week it gets that much worse.

This again?  Look, we did this song and dance this morning when the balance changes were released:

The buffs to the Asari are a temporary compensation for her having no weapon damage upgrade WHATSOEVER.

Right now the ONLY thing she's good at is Melee and Power damage.  So they buffed it.  Why does everyone think these buffs are permanent?  These are a stop-gap until a proper patch can be implimented.

EDIT:  Also again, on paper, the Asari heavy Melee is better, yes, in practice?  It's far too dangerous and used incorrectly will result in you wiping out or getting sync killed.  Sheer numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 12 décembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[Conduit0]

MastahDisastah wrote...

spudspot wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Just to add to this.

Krogan Sentinel - 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

So unless Narida is completely off about the Huntress heavy melee base damage, a rage mode Krogan far out strips her heavy melee. Infact, even without rage mode or fort purge, the Krogan soldier manages to eek out a lead over the Huntress at 3412.5/3412.5/3412.5/2559.38

So me thinks the OP needs to provide proof that the Huntress has higher base/modifier damage than what Narida shows or this thread is over.

Not completely off, but the balance changes haven't been implemented yet.

Narida class builder has some errors, one of them is the missing damage multiplier vs protection of the asari huntress and valykrie.
Asari has 1/1.5/1.5/1.5 multiplier.
that means her real melee damage is : 3337.5/5006.25/5006.25/5006.25, and that doesn't account the recent 40% melee damage buff from tactical cloak, that would put the total damage with amps, gears and cloak to [color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">5422.5 ]and[/color] armour, as OP said.

Is there information anywhere that actually confirms the Huntress and Valkyrie's modifiers?

[Siran]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Right now the ONLY thing she's good at is Melee and Power damage.  So they buffed it.  Why does everyone think these buffs are permanent?  These are a stop-gap until a proper patch can be implimented.

Everyone thinks so because:

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We are leaning towards leaving it as is since it does give her an interesting niche among the infiltrator kits.

Anyways - I don't have a problem with it, as Eric says, she fills a niche (especially with the Power bonus, I really can't see her commonly as a pure melee build, the thought alone is just plain ridiculous)

[Catastrophy]

Numbers are one thing, applied tactics another. I'm curious if we'll see someone doing it in Gold+ as a proof.

[RiouHotaru]

Siran wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Right now the ONLY thing she's good at is Melee and Power damage.  So they buffed it.  Why does everyone think these buffs are permanent?  These are a stop-gap until a proper patch can be implimented.

Everyone thinks so because:

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We are leaning towards leaving it as is since it does give her an interesting niche among the infiltrator kits.

Anyways - I don't have a problem with it, as Eric says, she fills a niche (especially with the Power bonus, I really can't see her commonly as a pure melee build, the thought alone is just plain ridiculous)

Ah, I didn't see that quote, but it's right, she does have a niche, that being a very powers/DoT-based Infiltrator (not to mention biotic infiltrator, which makes her -very- unique.  But I think you're right in that people are over estimating her melee potential.  She has neither the durability or the ability to sustain a melee build.

[IIFlash]

Conduit0 wrote...

Shad Croly wrote...

So...

Asari Hunter - Heavy Melee Damage: 3337.5/3337.5/3337.5/2503.13

Krogan Soldier - Heavy Melee Damage 5302.5/5302.5/5302.5/3976.88

Am I missing something here? Because loading up both the Krogan Soldier and the Asari Sentinel with the same gear (Omni-Blade V for both AR and SG, Strength Enhancer III, Hydraulic Joints V), maxing out the melee damage boosters from the Rage/Fitness tree, factoring in the Asari with Tactical Cloak active and a Korgan in Rage, the Krogan still beats the Asari by a mile in Heavy Melee damage....

[EDIT]

For good measure, I even did the test with the Korgan Vanguard, following the same parameters (same gear, max out melee side of Rage, take only melee boosting powers and factor in their activation):

Krogan Vanguard - Heavy Melee Damage 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

Just to add to this.

Krogan Sentinel - 4672.5/4672.5/4672.5/3504.38

So unless Narida is completely off about the Huntress heavy melee base damage, a rage mode Krogan far out strips her heavy melee. Infact, even without rage mode or fort purge, the Krogan soldier manages to eek out a lead over the Huntress at 3412.5/3412.5/3412.5/2559.38

So me thinks the OP needs to provide proof that the Huntress has higher base/modifier damage than what Narida shows or this thread is over.

If these numbers are correct then I believe this is a problem since it makes a melee Sentinel redundant, the ability to restore full shields in combat  VS  extra 20% DR from TA is a no-brainer.
I for one support a Krogan soldier and sentinel melee buff, and it should be possible too, without affecting the vanguard, same as the health/shield and increased stagger immunity buff months ago. Although this does leave out the Shaman which too my knowledge shares stat changes with the vanguard.

While some may argue against a melee buff (balance/lore/whatever), how often do you see a melee specced Krogan in gold/plat that is not the vanguard?

[Deerber]

Completely agree with Annomander here.

It's simply stupid that any other race can hit as hard as a krogan does. Especially if it's stripgirls asari.

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Annomander wrote...

rnc007 wrote...

Re: melee builds are meh on gold

GI melee build - super spawn wiping awesome-sauce
Human Adapt melee build - high risk hilarity with right mix of awesome-sauce
Kroguard - I know how you feel about this, but seriously it's grin-inducing
Shadow - Space ninja awesome-sauce (even playing w/o shadow strike)
BroBrawler - Charge then light melee all the things - fun fun fun

I could go on. Some of my best ME3 moments have been playing melee characters on gold.

I burned a respec on this so will try a bit more to make it work but as of now I'm bearish.

Ok, you play a melee build.

I'll play a flamer-less geth soldier.

I'll get feneckus to play drell adept.

And Stardusk can snipe on tsol

Enjoy being "meh" when you are outclassed severely in damage output and nothing more than a glorified decoy.

You listed 2 infiltrators (lawl)
and 2 vanguards (free shields lawl)
and a human adept whom I garauntee is not even close to the huntress

A build can be FUN without being effective.

Melee fury is a blast, is it a chart topper gold build? No, of course not.

Melee krogan is fun, is it powerful enough? Comparatively, there's much room for improvement.

If you really want to make the "realistic" argument, e.g. the "Asari melee being stronger than Krogan melee is ridiculous," melee combat in the far future would in general be absurd. Current technological trends are only increasing the distances between combatants. Swords and spears, then bows, then firearms, then artillery and armor, now air strikes, cruise missiles, and drones. Even if you had gigantic aliens like Krogan, future warfare is extremely unlikely to involve them mashing heads with people. Knowing that melee combat really has no place in a technologically advanced universe functions as an excuse for it being underpowered.

That said, I understand this whole conversation is operating within the context of the Mass Effect universe, which is not really hard sci-fi.

Yeah man, but... Krogan.

Seriously... Krogan!

[CmnDwnWrkn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ha

Lovaas wrote...

The asari recovery time is an enemy to that strategy. While you finish her pillow talk animations you would get picked off by a sion/ravager/phantom/rocket pooper every time. Yes the numbers are in the Asari's favor but you have to consider:

1. No self respecting krogan forgives all health and damage reduction just to gain more melee damage on a race that already has superior melee capabilities.

2. Orgasm animation is a death trap when her melee is used unwisely.

This is the battle of what happens on paper versus what happens on the battlefield argument we see constantly on bsn. 
inb4 all infiltrators are op. 

I love that you're making an excuse for the fact that a damn Asari can now be speced to have a more power melee than a Krogan.  Before arguing, just take a minute to think about how ridiculous this is.

BioWare is turning this game into a ****ing joke.  Every week it gets that much worse.

This again?  Look, we did this song and dance this morning when the balance changes were released:

The buffs to the Asari are a temporary compensation for her having no weapon damage upgrade WHATSOEVER.

Right now the ONLY thing she's good at is Melee and Power damage.  So they buffed it.  Why does everyone think these buffs are permanent?  These are a stop-gap until a proper patch can be implimented.

EDIT:  Also again, on paper, the Asari heavy Melee is better, yes, in practice?  It's far too dangerous and used incorrectly will result in you wiping out or getting sync killed.  Sheer numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

Are you for real dude?  The ONLY thing she's good at is Melee and Power Damage?  Some characters aren't good at anything, and you want to act like she's balanced because she doesn't have special weapon bonuses right now?  You might not know this, but MOST characters don't have weapon damage bonuses.  Look at the Adepts.  All they have is Biotics.  No 160% damage bonus.  This Huntress gets a self-detonating biotic combo, and that's considered the WEAKEST thing she can do. 

[Riot Inducer]

I don't see the problem here, Krogan has more durability and faster recovery on his melee letting him melee through enemies faster with less consequence. The asari has to set up both with TC and getting into closer range than a Krogan does, then there's the long recovery animation that leaves you exposed and unable to react to anything on a character that's far more squishy than even the lightest Krogan setup.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Riot Inducer wrote...

I don't see the problem here, Krogan has more durability and faster recovery on his melee letting him melee through enemies faster with less consequence. The asari has to set up both with TC and getting into closer range than a Krogan does, then there's the long recovery animation that leaves you exposed and unable to react to anything on a character that's far more squishy than even the lightest Krogan setup.

You forgot to mention that hers is an AoE melee, which is an advantage she has over the Krogan.

[IoeShepard]

Buff is good all thumbs up.
Its "almost a lore" asari commando.
(still far from it though...)

Whatever.

I play other chars as melee builds too, like the fury - she is weaker - good, this provides a challenge.

Huntress better at melee as a krogan - no.

End of story.

[Alijah Green]

poor krogan his little tail hurts anyway so what if her melee can out perform a Krogan, the simple fact that any enemy can stop you from even doing the melee is go enough.

why you so jelly OP

[Alijah Green]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Riot Inducer wrote...

I don't see the problem here, Krogan has more durability and faster recovery on his melee letting him melee through enemies faster with less consequence. The asari has to set up both with TC and getting into closer range than a Krogan does, then there's the long recovery animation that leaves you exposed and unable to react to anything on a character that's far more squishy than even the lightest Krogan setup.

You forgot to mention that hers is an AoE melee, which is an advantage she has over the Krogan.

name a disadvantage then like she can't finish a melee when revived if a enemy is near, enemy will always over power her if they decide to melee.  you people are mental sometime

[mrcanada]

dr_random wrote...

Numbers are one thing, applied tactics another. I'm curious if we'll see someone doing it in Gold+ as a proof.

It's already been done and is just fine.

[Kenadian]

She does more damage but, quite frankly, she isn't strong enough for me personally to use melee as a primary playstyle. She doesn't have anywhere near the survivability of a Batarian or Krogan.

[UnknownMercenary]

It's doable on gold but I wouldn't try it in PUGs since it's tough and not really reliable. With the windup time and the short range on the AOE it would be suicide to try this on Platinum.

Hilarious though.

Modifié par UnknownMercenary, 12 décembre 2012 - 05:41 .

[Kenadian]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

It's doable on gold but I wouldn't try it in PUGs since it's tough and not really reliable. With the windup time and the short range on the AOE it would be suicide to try this on Platinum.

Hilarious though.

I outscored you using a bloody Saboteur.

[DeltaSerpentis.m]

Jiovanie- wrote...

UKStory135 wrote...

I'm more suprised that a lowly human, the Paladin, is as good a melee character as both of them.

I'm surprised that some random alien dinosaur is capable of hitting anything with those tiny arms.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Alijah Green wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Riot Inducer wrote...

I don't see the problem here, Krogan has more durability and faster recovery on his melee letting him melee through enemies faster with less consequence. The asari has to set up both with TC and getting into closer range than a Krogan does, then there's the long recovery animation that leaves you exposed and unable to react to anything on a character that's far more squishy than even the lightest Krogan setup.

You forgot to mention that hers is an AoE melee, which is an advantage she has over the Krogan.

name a disadvantage then like she can't finish a melee when revived if a enemy is near, enemy will always over power her if they decide to melee.  you people are mental sometime

WTF?  Please read the post I was responding to.  It mentioned several supposed disadvantages of the Asari melee, which I why I countered with an advantage in the first place.