136 réponses à ce sujet

[Direwolf0294]

Dragon Age has had some pretty terrible fights over its two games, one expansion pack and multiple DLCs. Two that immediately spring to mind are the Rock Wraith fight at the end of Act 1 in DA2 and the High Dragon in Act 3. Simply put, these fights are not fun. It's not that they're too difficult or anything, because they're not, it's that spending 10 - 15 minutes beating on the same monster is just mind numbingly boring.

Going into DA3, can we perhapes avoid more fights like this and instead replace them with shorter fights that are more difficult? If a fight really must last more than 10 minutes, can you spruce it up a bit? Give the boss multiple forms that are visually quite different, give them dialogue to say during the fight, have the enviroment change during the course of the battle (for example, you start the fight in the castle and end up out in the courtyard). Anything to make them more interesting.

[Pedrak]

The Dragon Ages series could indeed use some changes in the combat department:

- Less repetitive filler combat against trash mobs
- More enemy variety requiring to change tactics, weapons, spells depending on the creatures you are fighting
- No waves
- Quality over quantity: I don't need to be fighting something every two minutes: I'd rather have a shorter game and less fights, but of higher quality
- Never been a fan of boss fights, but if they have to be in, just giving them a ton of HPs does not make the fight interesting or challenging
- Friendly fire independent from difficulty level

Modifié par Pedrak, 12 décembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Imp of the Perverse]

Arishock... stop chugging the &^%$ing potions and die already.

I liked how DXHR addressed the complaints about its boss fights when it released the missing link DLC, but it wouldn't really work here. It just wouldn't be a dragon age game without having to chop down a high dragon or two.

[MichaelStuart]

I believe combat should only last as long as it takes the player to work out a strategy, at which point the enemies should die quickly.
Each combat would need a different strategy, or else combat would become routine.

[Tootles FTW]

I thought the Rock Wraith was the only boss fight that mixed it up (I'm referring to the "hide behind rocks!" mechanic) - not saying it was a great addition, just that it was the only boss fight that was different outside of random difficulty spikes & enemy waves. That & the boss fight in the 'Legacy' DLC, that is.

The High Dragon fight was pretty awful, especially if you're a melee class and he's just perching out of your reach on that dumb ledge. I generally detest the DAO fight mechanics, but the dragon fight in DAO is leagues better. I'm hoping this is one of the areas where they look towards Skyrim & Dragon's Dogma for pointers.

The combat in DA2 was WAY more entertaining, but the fights themselves were still pretty bad. The waves...ugh, fcuk those waves.

[Medhia Nox]

I'd like it if they tried a game where I could avoid combat altogether - I know it's not flashy enough to do that, too much high brow snobbery to be sure, but I'd still enjoy it.

[Dhiro]

I have to agree here. I'd prefer fights that require the player to be prepared (say, maybe the dragon does double fire damage and you'll need to use runes and potions to protect yourself) than mechanics that just drag the fight forever, no matter how perfect your timing is or how efficient is your damage.

[David Gaider]

Direwolf0294 wrote...
Dragon Age has had some pretty terrible fights over its two games, one expansion pack and multiple DLCs. Two that immediately spring to mind are the Rock Wraith fight at the end of Act 1 in DA2 and the High Dragon in Act 3. Simply put, these fights are not fun. It's not that they're too difficult or anything, because they're not, it's that spending 10 - 15 minutes beating on the same monster is just mind numbingly boring.

Going into DA3, can we perhapes avoid more fights like this and instead replace them with shorter fights that are more difficult? If a fight really must last more than 10 minutes, can you spruce it up a bit? Give the boss multiple forms that are visually quite different, give them dialogue to say during the fight, have the enviroment change during the course of the battle (for example, you start the fight in the castle and end up out in the courtyard). Anything to make them more interesting.

Having more interesting big combats (and also less "trash fights") is indeed one of the focuses of the combat team. It's nothing we can really talk about at this point, however.

[sea-]

B-but guys, isn't that what RPGs are all about? Combat and sexy cutscenes with sexy NPCs that you can fantasize about?

PLEASE BIOWARE, GIVE ME ENDLESS TRASH MOBS TO MIND-NUMBINGLY HOTKEY-MASH MY WAY THROUGH.  I DON'T WANT INTELLIGENT, VARIED, INTERESTING ENCOUNTER AND ENEMY DESIGN.  RPGS SHOULD HAVE AS LITTLE TO DO WITH COMPELLING SYTSTEMS DESIGN AS POSSIBLE AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH  DPS TREADMILL SKINNER BOX REWARDS.  DRAGON AGE MUST ASPIRE TO BE A SINGLE PLAYER WORLD OF WARCRAFT WITH BUDGET-INFLATING MOVIES TO WATCH IN ORDER TO TRULY EVOLVE THE GENRE.

Modifié par sea-, 12 décembre 2012 - 03:33 .

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...
Dragon Age has had some pretty terrible fights over its two games, one expansion pack and multiple DLCs. Two that immediately spring to mind are the Rock Wraith fight at the end of Act 1 in DA2 and the High Dragon in Act 3. Simply put, these fights are not fun. It's not that they're too difficult or anything, because they're not, it's that spending 10 - 15 minutes beating on the same monster is just mind numbingly boring.

Going into DA3, can we perhapes avoid more fights like this and instead replace them with shorter fights that are more difficult? If a fight really must last more than 10 minutes, can you spruce it up a bit? Give the boss multiple forms that are visually quite different, give them dialogue to say during the fight, have the enviroment change during the course of the battle (for example, you start the fight in the castle and end up out in the courtyard). Anything to make them more interesting.

Having more interesting big combats (and also less "trash fights") is indeed one of the focuses of the combat team. It's nothing we can really talk about at this point, however.

Nothing like Corypheus plz. That guy was dreadful. Companion AI really sucked during that fight and followers keep getting killed, leaving the player controlled character to fight alone. And only a mage character really works for me during that fight because of their ranged abilities.

Also plz be rid of the cooldown period on potions. I don't get what was up with that.

[Bfler]

If there is a fight against a dragon, I would prefer if he is also able to do air attacks and not only ground assault, like in Origins and DA2. Give the party AA attacks or talents like Dragonrend in Skyrim to force the dragon to land.

[sea-]

David Gaider wrote...

Having more interesting big combats (and also less "trash fights") is indeed one of the focuses of the combat team. It's nothing we can really talk about at this point, however.

Wasn't that a goal with Dragon Age 2 as well?  No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it.  In any case, the bar that's set shouldn't be "better than Dragon Age 2", it should be "better than Dragon Age: Origins" because that was already a major issue in the first game as well.

Modifié par sea-, 12 décembre 2012 - 03:49 .

[Pedrak]

Combat in DAO wasn't a complete disaster though - "only" encounter design was bad. Improve on that, and you get ok combat for DA3.

DA2's combat I found cringingly bad.

Modifié par Pedrak, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:17 .

[Provi-dance]

All combat encounters will be tedious if they implement (again) a shallow combat system like the one in DA2 and have level-scaling do the "fine-tuning" of combat difficulty.

Trash mobs aren't the main problem.

[Plaintiff]

sea- wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Having more interesting big combats (and also less "trash fights") is indeed one of the focuses of the combat team. It's nothing we can really talk about at this point, however.

Wasn't that a goal with Dragon Age 2 as well?  No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it.  In any case, the bar that's set shouldn't be "better than Dragon Age 2", it should be "better than Dragon Age: Origins" because that was already a major issue in the first game as well.

What else are they supposed to say? They can't know if you're going to enjoy the combat or not. Just because you don't think they succeeded with DA2 does not mean that no effort was made.

[abaris]

Pedrak wrote...

DA2's combat I found cringingly bad.

Yeah, so bad that I decided on not buying after playing the demo. Combat may not be the most important game feature for me, but that total lack of immersion I felt when I experienced it, rolled the dice.

[Plaintiff]

Pedrak wrote...

Combat in DAO wasn't a complete disaster though - "only" encounter design was bad. Improve on that, and you get ok combat for DA3.

DA2's combat I found cringingly bad.

I sorely missed the sensation of wading through molasses.

[berelinde]

Some good suggestions for mixing things up. I especially like the idea of fights moving to encompass more than one area. It would be even better if the boss heals up (or not) depending on the situation, too. For example, the badly-wounded mage boss escapes via a secret passage. The party can follow, but they'll be walking into a trap, the mage's lab where he has a golem waiting to pound the party into dust. Meanwhile, he's quaffing healing potions and is now back to full health.

DA2 did that in at least one instance (Gascard Dupuis).

The most tedious fight in either game has to be the Broodmother in DA:O, though. That thing was a real PITA... although the tentacles were a nice touch.

[Provi-dance]

Plaintiff wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Combat in DAO wasn't a complete disaster though - "only" encounter design was bad. Improve on that, and you get ok combat for DA3.

DA2's combat I found cringingly bad.

I sorely missed the sensation of wading through molasses.

Attacking and running at supersonic speed is so much more phun! Then you can feel like Super Saiyan, Plaintiff.
With giant numbers, too.

[sea-]

Plaintiff wrote...

What else are they supposed to say? They can't know if you're going to enjoy the combat or not. Just because you don't think they succeeded with DA2 does not mean that no effort was made.

How about an open and transparent plan that fans can provide feedback on?  BioWare is a public company creating entertainment for mass audiences.  I should think that testing with their target demographic would be a major concern.  Though to be honest, these days I doubt that this forum represents their primary audience.

[David Gaider]

sea- wrote...
Wasn't that a goal with Dragon Age 2 as well?  No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Hence why we're waiting to discuss the matter further until we can actually show what we're working on. Until then, you'd only have us saying "this is our intention" and your only response would be to state your skepticism. Which is fair. If your expectation, however, is that we'd lay out all our plans without anything to show, engendering all sorts of questions which we could only answer with verbal description... then, no, that's not going to happen.

[Atakuma]

sea- wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

What else are they supposed to say? They can't know if you're going to enjoy the combat or not. Just because you don't think they succeeded with DA2 does not mean that no effort was made.

How about an open and transparent plan that fans can provide feedback on?  BioWare is a public company creating entertainment for mass audiences.  I should think that testing with their target demographic would be a major concern.  Though to be honest, these days I doubt that this forum represents their primary audience.

I don't believe these forums ever represented their primary audience.