136 réponses à ce sujet

[Pzykozis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

To some extent, I think the complaints about DXHR's boss battles were wrong.

A number of people thought you needed a specific build to proceed and that their stealth/hacking characters were being punished.

To be fair coming up on those bosses knowing nothing about it and having a persuasive / stealthy guy that was none-lethal on give me deus ex difficulty was pretty bad. Now I just abuse stungun and later on get typhoon. I don't necessarily have hate for them but having the gunther style killswitch for those types of players would've been a lot better. Missing link is an improvement though.

[d4eaming]

If mobs are eating your caster, use a CC ability and run away. I do it all the time with my mage Hawke.

I have no problem with the combat speed in DA2 and VASTLY prefer it to DAO where it took forever and an age for my rogue to go shank someone- who was probably already dead by the time he got there. Then he had to shuffleshufflewaddle to the next mob and hope he hit it. Oh damn, just hit my AOE button as all the mobs turned around to follow Alistair, just wasted all my energy and a cool down. Shuffleshufflewaddle after them and hope they don't sidestep the next attack.

But according to you, I'm playing the game wrong because I despise the slowass walk of DAO. I come from playing WoW for years, my main class is a hunter, where mobility and range are the two mainstays (ignoring the pet for the moment). DAO combat feels like to me if I turn off autorun in WoW to try to follow the boss that's being kited around the room. It's slow and cumbersome and not very exciting. In DA2, there's an assassin eating my healer, my rogue can get to him quickly, shank him, disorient, and generally not have to worry about him escaping from me at walking speed.

[Provi-dance]

Filament wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

Filament wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

pokemon is also an anime. Hence I slashed it with "anime".

lol, well okay then Captain Redundancy. Comparing it to anime is inane regardless.

It was obviously not redundant since there are people like you, Captain NoComprendo, who misunderstood the reference, no?

Kinda circular logic considering the redundancy is what threw me off to begin with.

Not everyone knows what's "anime", so they might be more familiar with the Pokemon cartoon.

I think it bears repeating how inane this comparison really is.

Oh right. It's so redundant because I mentioned a genre and then a specific example inside this genre...   Amusing, Captain NoComprendo, really amusing.

You imagined inanity because you don't like the comparison, so it's all in your head. Anime is a visual medium with mostly furious and fast combat, so is DA2. The comparison is valid.

[TheRealJayDee]

Provi-dance wrote...

Not everyone knows what's "anime", so they might be more familiar with the Pokemon cartoon.

Well, to be fair, a lot of people who call the DA2 combat anime-like have a pretty limited grasp of the variety of the genres and visual styles the term anime covers. And I don't think Pokemon is the kind of anime the DA2 combat got an injection from. But I do have to agree that imo starting with DA:A the franchsie started moving in the wrong direction on what I call the "Game of Thrones/ Naruto scale" in terms of look and feel of the combat. I have to admit though that it's likely a lot harder to make combat look and feel more grounded in reality (disclaimer: not making "realistic" combat) than going OTT.

[schalafi]

I tried to play a Mage in DA:O, but the slowness of the moves just put me off. In DA2 I play a Mage every time, because my AoE spells don't take 30 seconds to reach their target. I agree that the waves of enemies and enemy Mages that could "poof" away were a little "over the top", as were the acrobatics of the Rogues, but as one poster said, it was better than "wading through molasses."
My hope is that DA3 will combine the best of both fighting modes, slowing it down a little in some ways, but not to the point of DA:O's tediousness.

[abaris]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Well, to be fair, a lot of people who call the DA2 combat anime-like have a pretty limited grasp of the variety of the genres and visual styles the term anime covers.

That's why I call it monkey-style. I may not have much experience with anime, but I've watched my share of gibbons at the zoo.

[Provi-dance]

Filament wrote...

It's just mind boggling how someone would choose such a terrible example, is all. At least Pokemon the game is an actual game.

It's way more mind boggling how Captain NoComprendo goes on and on with his "logical" acrobatics (falling on his head every time) to conceal that he missed the point of the reference being Pokemon the anime and not some kind of turn based game with the same name (that we all should be somehow aware of)... in the context of DA2.

Do you play the Pokemon game in between DA2 gaming sessions, Captain?

[axl99]

Someone here is not very well versed in anime :\\. Shame. Just need to dial back a couple decades to the good stuff. Because there really is a lot of good material that gets overshadowed by recent shows that cater specifically to consumer demand.

But all that doesn't really gel in a discussion about videogame combat. If all someone's doing is make an obtuse comparison, it makes them ignorant on so many levels.

That aside, I like the combat speed in DA2. There were interesting combat mechanics they tried out in the DLCs that I'd like to see refined even further for DA3.

I'm glad the devs are crafting encounters that don't come across as "trash mob". Plenty of us have experienced that in other games. I hope as players we can be flexible with our playstyles and find new ways to co-ordinate attacks with our teammates, and possibly use the environment to our advantage.

[cJohnOne]

I enjoyed the Ancient Rock Wraith. If you didn't like that you have some troubles with DA2. I also enjoyed the Dragon fights. Although I'm not into the dual with the Arishock since I can't figure out his pattern ha,ha. It is more dramatic than the group fight that I always do.

[d4eaming]

cJohnOne wrote...

I enjoyed the Ancient Rock Wraith. If you didn't like that you have some troubles with DA2. I also enjoyed the Dragon fights. Although I'm not into the dual with the Arishock since I can't figure out his pattern ha,ha. It is more dramatic than the group fight that I always do.

I liked the rock wraith once I figured it out. I died a few times the first time I met it. The Arishok also killed me. Repeatedly. So much for hero Hawke saving the day! He was only trying to impress Fenris with a duel anyway Once I got that figured out, I can handle him, it just takes longer. Especially when he takes a damn potion, which actually doesn't happen in every fight, which I find odd. Rogue abilities that slow or pin him work well. With my mage, I use force magic and ice spells that slow him down, and when he stuns himself after a charge, hit him with my biggest spells. And heal myself. A lot. Getting impaled and lifted off the floor is rather painful.

Modifié par d4eaming, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[TheRealJayDee]

abaris wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Well, to be fair, a lot of people who call the DA2 combat anime-like have a pretty limited grasp of the variety of the genres and visual styles the term anime covers.

That's why I call it monkey-style. I may not have much experience with anime, but I've watched my share of gibbons at the zoo.

Gibbon Age - I like it!  


edit:

Yeah, not gibbons, but...



Kudos to fellow forumite Fast Jimmy!

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Provi-dance]

axl99 wrote...


But all that doesn't really gel in a discussion about videogame combat. If all someone's doing is make an obtuse comparison, it makes them ignorant on so many levels.

 

Why are you mad that someone compares combat in your beloved game with anime combat? If you're fine with anime combat, what makes you so mad and upset to the point that you need to dish out terms such as "obtuse" and "ignorant"?

Comparing things is a ok, just relax and take a deep breath.

[Maria Caliban]

I find the ongoing conversation about anime and pokemon fits well in a thread about tedious fights.

[abaris]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

abaris wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Well, to be fair, a lot of people who call the DA2 combat anime-like have a pretty limited grasp of the variety of the genres and visual styles the term anime covers.

That's why I call it monkey-style. I may not have much experience with anime, but I've watched my share of gibbons at the zoo.

Gibbon Age - I like it!  


edit:

Yeah, not gibbons, but...



Kudos to fellow forumite Fast Jimmy!

What this forum's sorely missing is some thank you or reputation option. I would give you one for that. Although I only hope that DAIIIs combat won't look like picture 2.

[axl99]

MODEDIT: Removed name call.

Why use anime combat in a comparison with videogame combat? Why not use another game's animation as a comparison to the ones in Dragon Age?

Like God of War. I've been told that a couple animators in dev saw fit to use that as a starting point.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Provi-dance]

Filament wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

Filament wrote...

It's just mind boggling how someone would choose such a terrible example, is all. At least Pokemon the game is an actual game.

It's way more mind boggling how Captain NoComprendo goes on and on with his "logical" acrobatics (falling on his head every time) to conceal that he missed the point of the reference being Pokemon the anime and not some kind of turn based game with the same name (that we all should be somehow aware of)... in the context of DA2.

lol. One of the most popular videogame franchises in history is an obscure reference no one would ever catch. Right. Really, either way you slice it, your comparison is horrible. Either you have a profound ignorance of anime or you've chosen the worst game to compare it to. Deflecting to my supposed "misunderstanding" changes none of that.

My deepest apologies, Captain NoComprendo, I was never insterested in researching about combat in a Pokemon game. I'm guilty of that. Nobody says you shouldn't enjoy it though!

"Either you have a profound ignorance of anime or you've chosen the worst game to compare it to."

I'm sure you have more knowledge of cartoons and pokemons than me, I'll give you that, but all animes (those centered around combat anyway) I had the chance to see have had very fast paced and flashy combat scenes, not unlike those found in the critically acclaimed title "DA2".
Stop being mad, please.

[Pzykozis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I find the ongoing conversation about anime and pokemon fits well in a thread about tedious fights.

Aww but some combat driven anime are actually pretty awesome

I need validation for my interests!

Also provi, it helps if your comparison verges on the side of making sense. It'd tend to get a better reception then.

Also just as a tip Pokemon the cartoon is or was fairly turn based so is a bad point of reference even if most people will probably go to the games first since the game franchise is probbaly at this point more successful and wider known than the cartoon.

Could have compared it to something like Dragon Ball Z, but it still wouldn't really work that well.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:16 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Both of you stop it, before I strip you of your respective Captaincies.

[Allan Schumacher]

Note, I did some minor edits to some of the more recent posts since they had been quoted, but I will be deleting posts that do little more than continue the bickering.

[Provi-dance]

Pzykozis wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I find the ongoing conversation about anime and pokemon fits well in a thread about tedious fights.

Aww but some combat driven anime are actually pretty awesome

I need validation for my interests!

Also provi, it helps if your comparison verges on the side of making sense. It'd tend to get a better reception then.

Also just as a tip Pokemon the cartoon is or was fairly turn based so is a bad point of reference even if most people will probably go to the games first since the game franchise is probbaly at this point more successful and wider known than the cartoon.

Could have compared it to something like Dragon Ball Z, but it still wouldn't really work that well.

So all of you are saying that Pokemon combat is actually good (it's even turn based!) compared to the one found in DA2? Alright, fine with me.

DA2 combat is nothing like Pokemon combat, Pokemon combat outclasses DA2 combat an all levels. They're comparably flashy though, no?

[Brodoteau]

While I'm happy to hear Gaider's comments, I think there are a few issues here as to why fights feel tedious:

1. Longer fights with lots of spawns don't need mean better fights. Random spawning always stretches credibility for me. In the High Dragon Fight in DA2, where were those bloody Drakes and dragons coming from? Why were they so slow to help the High Dragon there in the first place? Why didn't the High Dragon keep fighting with them when there were reinforcements? I had the same problems with the final fight in Mark of the Assassin. Give me one difficult opponent that I have to fight; don't just dragged it out. Spawns and waves should make sense to the story, if they have to happen at all. For example, Howe having reinforcements in DAO would have made sense; thug armies in DA2, less so.

2. Don't cheapen the big bad by making them dependent on waves for a higher level of difficulty. I hate the Flemeth and High Dragon fights in DA:O, but I do feel they are more worth my time because you feel like you've accomplished something. You also had to position people and think about the fight. One of my favourite fights ever is Firkragg in BG2. A thoughtful fight where you had to think about positioning, resistances, healing etc. And that dragon didn't need to hop around or have a billion spawns to be interesting.

3. Long health bars don't make things more interesting, just more tedious. That was the main issue with the Rock Wraith Fight. It was a good fight (much more balanced on Normal than on Hard) but the only thing that made the wraith threatening was its health bar. It was a more difficult fight because it took longer to kill. I know this presents a problem for mage fights. But, honestly, mages shouldn't have consitution bars as big as warriors. Nor should they be able to flit around like rogues. I think the key here is resistances, not health.

4. Reward the player for being awesome. Yes some people will complain that a fight is too easy. Most often its because they spent hours thinking about how to make an awesome build for their character, got all the best equipment and have played hours of the game. So when some mage goes down in three hits, they feel cheated. They are in the minority. I wanted the gangs in DA2 in Act 3 to run in fear at my awesomeness... I was the bloody Champion after all! Instead, I found gang members with the same health as me, able to go toe to toe with the person who killed the Arishok. Yes it becomes tedious to destroy the peons after awhile.. but maybe there shouldn't be that many peons to be faced near the end of the game anyway...

Modifié par Brodoteau, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:36 .