100 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

relhart wrote...

I very much prefer open skill/stat based leveling systems myself, rather than class based. I also don't see how it goes against the lore, if a character can use any magic ability, they were obviously born with the ability to do so. There are plenty of mages in DA that never set foot in a chantry tower.

 

My "against the lore" post was about all characters having magic (which is what the OP suggested). Having the PC all the rogue, warriors and mages's abilities available isn't, theorically, against the lore. But we know that we'll get backgroundS for our PC. With those, I don't think having a classless system would work, and it'll be either against the lore or idiotic to have every single background in the game, if you choose magic abilities, as mages that were hiding their powers.
If the game would have as the only background the mysterious character, with an unkowns past, the classless system could work. Otherwise, I don't think it could.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 décembre 2012 - 05:25 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I would love something in the old Palladium style (essentially TES/Skyrim) or the old White Wolf system. Characters start with a set number of points, and being born with magic potential would be a perk that you buy at character creation. However, I don't know if that fits in with Dragon Age... If BioWare really is working on a new IP, then maybe they can do something with less traditional classes for that.

[Kidd]

The only way this could theoretically work is if every PC is, technically, a mage. You choosing not to learn any spells would be akin to simply never acting on your talents and learning other ones.

But that would still mean this PC is learning things at speeds that are silly even for the already way-too-quick learning of a DA PC. You spend years in the tower practising your magic, it doesn't really make sense for the PC to go from knowing nothing to knowing how to cast flaming weapons in one day.

[Bob Garbage]

If you want to play Skyrim, play Skyrim.

[abaris]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Well, Bioware always love the classic Warrior, Rogue and Mage class in games, now if inspired by Skyrim, why not  throw away classes and let the players creating own class with whatever skills you guys give?

Because a Jack of all Trades isn't exactly challenging? The no class system of Bethesda games was always something I didn't like about them.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

Bob Garbage wrote...

If you want to play Skyrim, play Skyrim.

I agree with Bob Garbage.  Dragon Age is a different game and I don't want it like Skyrim.  If I wanted that then I would have played Skyrim.  I wish everyone would stop asking for games to be like other games.  In that case, then there should just be one game studio and let them crank out all the games and be done with it.  I like variety, that is why there are different different studios with different game styles.

[The Elder King]

Nizaris1 wrote...

If non born Mages cannot use magic, we will NEVER have Warrior-Mage hybrid UNLESS he/she was originally a Mage...

You guys see the problem?

In DA it is as if a Mage only know magic and nothing else, a Mage are known by their appearances (even NPCs don't know in which funny, but we know), but Mages are actually a person who can be a thief, pickpocket, hunter, woodcutter, fishermen ect ect ect...

Just because they are born Mages doesn't mean they are born as a class, they still human (or elves)...why can't they use bow, sword, wearing armor just because they are born as mages? The funny thing is they have to learn Combat Magic to be able to use weapons...but that specially for born mages

For who born non-Mage they will never ever can use/learn magic...maybe they can if consume lyrium, but even that is debatable...

It is because of class vs "who you are born"

A Warrior is a class, meaning anyone who use weapons and armor, charging into battle are warriors, okay fine, it is a class....so what if a person who born as a mage but never learn magic in his/her entire life, never going into the Circle or joining apostate group, doing the same thing? Doesn't that make that person a Warrior too?

or a person who born a mage, but an orphan, living in a city, becoming pickpocket, doesn't make him/her a Thief or "Rogue"?

So...in DA...mages can't be a warrior or a rogue just because they are born Mage?

Of course there can't be a mage-warrior hybrid (or mage-rouge) if the PC isn't a mage. It would be against the lore. Unless in one of the games there'll be an event/plot that will change this status, this will not change.
Warriors and rogues's abilities came from practice. You can't take a sword and a shield and fight like this. You need practice. Mages often (though there are surely exceptions, and not only the AW, as Malcolm Hawke integrated weapons in his fighting style) don't practice with weapons, regardless if they're Circle mages or apostates (the main one would be that they need time to practice magic).
About a mage that doesn't practice magic, you should consider that he'd be always be a mage. Mages in Thedas aren't merely a class. They could have warrior or rogues abilities (As I said, Malcolm used weapons), but he's still remain mages, because they could trigger magics without wanting to (since the ability to control yourself and not use magic without wanting to needs to practice magic). Regardless, a mage that doesn't learn how to use magic wouldn't last long. Regardless if in the Circle or with a proper teacher, a mage needs to be trained in magic.

[abaris]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The problem with DA is if you are born a Mage, you are born with that class, similar with if you are born as non Mage, you are born either a Warrior or a Rogue

Yeah, and I happen to like that. In later TES games such as Skyrim you could even be a total magical idiot and become head of the mage's guild. I'm all for specialisations, because it makes things more interesting than having access to all abilities if the need arises.

[Vilegrim]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Well, Bioware always love the classic Warrior, Rogue and Mage class in games, now if inspired by Skyrim, why not  throw away classes and let the players creating own class with whatever skills you guys give?

Of couse TES also have basic Combat, Stealth and Magic skills to "practice" on, which we use most determine what class we are and what we want to be. practice make perfect

So using similar way, why not just give every skills to the player without class restriction to choose on, everything meaning there is no more "skills belong to certain class", if the player want sneaking they choose sneaking skill at level up, if they want combat, they choose whatever combat skill when level up, and so with magic.

Now, i know Mage are born Mages, at least that what everybody believe, but Templars who use lyrium (or so DA2 says and not according to Alistair) can develop magical skill, since DA3 is about Mage vs Templar, the Veil got thin, maybe everyone can use magic?

And if want to make more interesting, specialization and some skills are learned via books, trainers, demons, spirits or whatever, so long as the player didn't learn, the specialization are locked, and if unlocked in one playthrough, it is locked again in new playthrough

What do you guys think?

It would not work.  It works in TES because no one has a problem with you being able to shatter armies with other worldly fire while butchering the general with a demon forged murder knife.   So class isn't really a thing.   In DA they really care, mages are feared and hated, being one has massive drawbacks.  (Hybrid type specs however are a great idea.  But should be just that specialisations) 

[abaris]

Nizaris1 wrote...

So, you are a Qunari....

Wow, this is a big revelation, The Maker is Qun...

No, I just happen to find the TES system boring.

Maybe because I started out as a pen and paper guy and get some kind of "realism"  and immersion by not being able to master every craft if I only want to. Has to do with roleplaying style, since a doctor in our world wouldn't necesarilly be well suited at being a mercenary.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

I put forward the "If it ant broke dont fix it" attitute. People reading to much into the inspired by skyrim pit. Yes they will get some ideas but they are not going to change anything significantly to make it like skyrim. At least i hope so, skyrim was a great game but i dont want a TESVI:The dragon age 3, i want a dragon age game. The only thing that can be extremmly similiar to TES is fallout.

[abaris]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No, I just happen to find the TES system boring.

I just joking, i know what you mean...TES system have a hole...you will reach god-like easily when you reach certain level

but joking aside...

The Chantry teach that anyone who born a Mage must be a Mage, learn magic in the Circle or become Tranquil, that is the work of Maker

The Qun teach that you are born what you are, you can't choose to be something else

So The Maker = Qun

Yeah, but that's the lore.

I played D&D and AD&D for quite a while and while I wasn't happy with everything they did with character builds I liked it more than the open possibilities of TES. It simply makes sense for me to specialise.

[Abraham_uk]

How about this?

Only the main character is classless whilst the companions have their own specific class.

[Maria Caliban]

Nizaris1 wrote...

If non born Mages cannot use magic, we will NEVER have Warrior-Mage hybrid UNLESS he/she was originally a Mage...

You guys see the problem?

No.

That's okay with me.

[abaris]

Abraham_uk wrote...

How about this?

Only the main character is classless whilst the companions have their own specific class.

Would be as boring in my book. I like my restrictions, if for nothing else than replayability. Different choices, different gamestyle.

[axl99]

Balancing would be a bit of a nightmare with hybrid classes. I know The Secret World had this system where players can switch up classes and abilities to suit each individual playstyle. Like you could tank with an assault rifle and heal people from afar for instance.

Not to say this is will be difficult with DA3 because we know next to nothing about its gameplay. But it would be interesting to see some build flexibility at least so players can experiment with everything a class has to offer.

[AngryFrozenWater]

abaris wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

No, I just happen to find the TES system boring.

I just joking, i know what you mean...TES system have a hole...you will reach god-like easily when you reach certain level

but joking aside...

The Chantry teach that anyone who born a Mage must be a Mage, learn magic in the Circle or become Tranquil, that is the work of Maker

The Qun teach that you are born what you are, you can't choose to be something else

So The Maker = Qun

Yeah, but that's the lore.

I played D&D and AD&D for quite a while and while I wasn't happy with everything they did with character builds I liked it more than the open possibilities of TES. It simply makes sense for me to specialise.

An open system like Skyrim still does allow you to specialize. Of course Skyrim is not party based. DA still has that old class system which also hints to DPS/tank/healer roles. That's artificial too. GW2 tried to get rid of that Holy Trinity. Of course that's MP, but the challenge for SP can be to create a specialization based on strategy with the rest of the team. I love to see what BW can come up with as an alternative to the strict warrior/rogue/mage roles without breaking the lore.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:13 .

[abaris]

axl99 wrote...

Balancing would be a bit of a nightmare with hybrid classes. I know The Secret World had this system where players can switch up classes and abilities to suit each individual playstyle. Like you could tank with an assault rifle and heal people from afar for instance.

NWN2 gave you the possibility of playing hybrids. But there were detrimental effects to doing so, since you never got fully proficient with any class. I think that was rather well balanced. At least better than the Bethesda approach of being able to really be a Jack of all Trades.

[Iosev]

I think the move for more hybrid classes in games like The Secret World or Guild Wars 2 is partly designed so that players have an easier time grouping up with one another. This isn't an issue in a single-player RPG, where the party composition is entirely up to you.

I personally think that the classes in a party-based game enhance the gameplay. In contrast, I'm not sure that I would have fun with a party composed of hybrids that can all do the same roles.

[AngryFrozenWater]

arcelonious wrote...

I think the move for more hybrid classes in games like The Secret World or Guild Wars 2 is partly designed so that players have an easier time grouping up with one another. This isn't an issue in a single-player RPG, where the party composition is entirely up to you.

I personally think that the classes in a party-based game enhance the gameplay. In contrast, I'm not sure that I would have fun with a party composed of hybrids that can all do the same roles.

The fact that they can, should not mean you have to do that. Even Skyrim and GW2 have limitations. DA would have those too. It's making them work that is fun.