100 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The fact that they can, should not mean you have to do that. Even Skyrim and GW2 have limitations. DA would have those too. It's making them work that is fun.

Maybe I missed something, but what restrictions does Skyrim have?

[BouncyFrag]

I like the class structure. Trying out different combinations of classes in regards to mine as well as using different party members has given me a lot of replay value in Bioware games.

[AngryFrozenWater]

abaris wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The fact that they can, should not mean you have to do that. Even Skyrim and GW2 have limitations. DA would have those too. It's making them work that is fun.

Maybe I missed something, but what restrictions does Skyrim have?

You cannot opt for all, otherwise you won't be good in anything.

[abaris]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You cannot opt for all, otherwise you won't be good in anything.

Yeah, but given the level cap, that's nowhere near as important as it was with NWN2.

What's more, as I said previously, you can make head of the mage's guild by only having cast the one spell to gain entrance to it's halls. That's even a huge step backwards from Morrowind's system.

[Isaantia]

Dhiro wrote...

Now, I wouldn't mind if everybody could learn Stealth or Lockpicking (or whatever) regardless of their class.

This. I would like this very, very much. 

[Solmanian]

Hmm, I'm not against a classless system, but I highly doubt BW will go in that direction. It's just not their thing, even a shooter like mass effect had class (pun intended), even though a single hero with an excess to all three trees (biotic, battle, tech) would've worked fine if not better. Instead they set out to make each class unique; vangaurd for example plays very differently than a soldier or adept (though, in ME1 the poor hybrids were indeed just the sum of their parts...). They'll have utilize a leveling system that will allow you to level all skil trees without creating handicap. In Skyrim for example, your "build" evolved organically to match your playstyle; It was offset however by the fact that the higher your level, it was harder to switch builds (from "warrior" to "mage" for example) and trying would prove lethal... But, like I said, it just doesn't feel like bioware style. They want your choices to determine your path, and not develop independently as an afterthough of your gameplay. If they did introduced a classless system, it would probably ended up like the amalur system: rewarding specialization and penalizing jacks of all trades. And we don't want that.

I would, alternatavely, prefer more classes, especialy hybrid ones. A holy knight with non-offensive abilities to augment his battle technique (i.e. "paladin"/templar). Or a ranger: a rogue/warrior more centered on harrying enemies at range, and dispatching them in CQB and less about sneakiness (as a D&D player I mostly considered my ranger as an offensive-centered fighter first, with rogue-like attributes, though I rarely sneaked...). A battlemage: a less-squishy mage class that gives up alot of his utility for enhanced comabt abilities. I think you get my drift.

You can say that I can just make this builds by using diffferent skill trees, but it's just not the same.

Anyways, realy looking forward to seeing what they meant by putting more emphasis on specializations!

[Todd23]

I think we should choose either magic or non-magic, and build up are character as we play. Not like Skyrim giving you points for using this or that. But whenever we choose a skill tree it should affect the additional abilities we can get from other skill trees. It always bothered me that when I was in the tower in Origins I was able to get all the fire spells. I couldn't cast any other type of spells but everyone was calling me a prodigy. This gave me the idea that I'm a pyromancer, and yet 4 levels later I was just as skilled in another skill tree. If fire was my specialty, how about an option to continue to work on it in some way? Or if I could have a fire variance on later spells?

[AshenShug4r]

This really would not work in the dragon age universe.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true. What works in Skyrim should stay in Skyrim (and the Elder Scroll series) and what has worked thus far for Dragon Age, which pays homage to the Holy class Trinity of such role-playing games as Dungeons & Dragons, should be adhered to.

Specializations bridging the gaps between classes I'm fine with, a la Arcane Warrior, Battlemage, Spirit Warrior, Shadow, etc. For example having a roguish mage specialization which is capable of picking locks (through telekinesis, I would imagine) and has some stealth related magic and buffs would be nice or having a rogue specialization that would help with crowd control by giving us access to sweep or circular attacks like we had in DA:O (e.g. Punisher).

In future I would not be opposed to BioWare experimenting with a classless RPG, but with a new franchise. classes are far to integral to DA, not only in gameplay terms, but in terms of the lore.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 13 décembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[Commander Kurt]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It cannot work in DA world because everybody are Qunari...

The difference is this; Qunari determine what you are at birth/as a child. In DA we jump in when the character is ca 20 years old. During these 20 years, the character has been trained doing something according to the game which explains why you can take on multiple soldiers right from the start. Noone being a decent footballplayer at that age would go from defence to offence or decide to try their hand at goalkeeping.

Also, the point in having a team (in this case) is that the different members have distinct differences. Imagine playing chess if you could decide the moves of all the pieces as you go along. Now, granted, there are other games than chess, but I like chess. Skyrim has nothing on chess.

[LadyWinterrose]

Exactly what the Teryn said. One of the things I love about Dragon Age so much is how your class (and, subsequently, it's specializations) is interwined in the story and can actually reflect your role in society. It's what makes Dragon Age universe so intriguing and unique, that's why I think a completely classless system like Skyrim would ruin everything.

Dragon Age is not Skyrim - it is far deeper in terms of character development and RPG experience, so the same things cannot apply to both games. For instance, I love the idea that magic is not taken for granted, that only some people are born with it and that while it is powerful, it can also be destructive. That's what creates a special role for mages, templars and Chantry in the society. Your class in Dragon Age is a part of who your character is, what his/her role in society is; moreover, it can influence the whole gaming experience and makes it interesting to play with different chatacters.

A classless system would simply ruin the whole Dragon Age franchise and all the lore behind Dragon Age universe that makes it so appealing. That's why I think specializations are a far better option if one wants to diversify one's character and I really hope Dragon Age stays this way. A classless system might work for some other game (even though I personally dislike it), but it would ruin Dragon Age.

Modifié par LadyWinterrose, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:06 .

[Arppis]

HagarIshay wrote...

Since even on Skyrim I played a pure rouge, it won't bother me if they make the classes either way. Just as long BioWare won't use Skyrim's leveling up system.

I'm not the grammar ****, I don't have the perfect grammar to do so...

But it's "rogue" not "rouge", rouge = mascara. Just wanted to point this out, but it might be a typo too.

[xsdob]

I do not support this, especially the everyone having magic thing. The point about having magic is your closer to the fade that others. It's why demons are attracted more to mages than anyone else, because mages are a lot easier for the demons to sense in the fade than normal people becasue their connection is so much stronger.

Having everyone be a mage completely negates the chantry, the templars, and the circles existence, and pretty much makes our world ripe for the picking by demons all over the fade. Now they have entire millions of untrained and unknowledgable mortals to posses and control.

[Marvin_Arnold]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true.

And that's exactly what "my" solution to that loathed M/T-"civil war" story arch has always been: 

Flemeth, being the Übergoddess, gives magical abilities to everyone. Templars become obsolete, as does discrimination against mages.

Which would mandate a classless system. Of course, that would be at the end of DA3, so the "classless" system could first be implemented in DA4.

That said, personally I prefer the class system, for story reasons.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[xsdob]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true.

And that's exactly what "my" solution to that loathed M/T-"civil war" story arch has always been: 

Flemeth, being the Übergoddess, gives magical abilities to everyone. Templars become obsolete, as does discrimination against mages.

Which would mandate a classless system. Of course, that would be at the end of DA3, so the "classless" system could first be implemented in DA4.

That said, personally I prefer the class system, for story reasons.

So you now have a nation of untrained mages, millions of poeple, all susceptible to demonic possession, and no way to possibly have all of them trained in time to stop them from falling to temptation, what with no training to resist demons, and become abominations.

So your solution is to offer up all of thedas to the demons as an all you can take body fest for them to take over and wreak havok with.

Oh joy. What a wonderful world.  I for one welcome our new abomination overlords.

Modifié par xsdob, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:33 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Bob Garbage wrote...

If you want to play Skyrim, play Skyrim.

This!^

The more I read through this thread the more silly the suggestions seems, if only for the fact that some fans would deem it as a betrayal of DA's roots.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true. What works in Skyrim should stay in Skyrim (and the Elder Scroll series) and what has worked thus far for Dragon Age, which pays homage to the Holy class Trinity of such role-playing games as Dungeons & Dragons, should be adhered to.

Specializations bridging the gaps between classes I'm fine with, a la Arcane Warrior, Battlemage, Spirit Warrior, Shadow, etc. For example having a roguish mage specialization which is capable of picking locks (through telekinesis, I would imagine) and has some stealth related magic and buffs would be nice or having a rogue specialization that would help with crowd control by giving us access to sweep or circular attacks like we had in DA:O (e.g. Punisher).

In future I would not be opposed to BioWare experimenting with a classless RPG, but with a new franchise. classes are far to integral to DA, not only in gameplay terms, but in terms of the lore.

Spot on.

[brettc893]

In short, no **** Skyrim, .

In long, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of the many, MANY problems with Skyrim, the "classless" idea is by far one of the worst, especially in regards to a game like this. The classless system in Skyrim ended up being arbitrary, strong arming you to look at the races as classes I.E., No One in their right mind is going to play a nonBreton or Altmer Mage, because they're tailored towards it, and being an Altmer Warrior is a waste, etc.

As for other points, most everyone else has covered them.

[Dhiro]

brettc893 wrote...

In short, no **** Skyrim, .

In long, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of the many, MANY problems with Skyrim, the "classless" idea is by far one of the worst, especially in regards to a game like this. The classless system in Skyrim ended up being arbitrary, strong arming you to look at the races as classes I.E., No One in their right mind is going to play a nonBreton or Altmer Mage, because they're tailored towards it, and being an Altmer Warrior is a waste, etc.

As for other points, most everyone else has covered them.

I did, several times, with great success

[brettc893]

Dhiro wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

In short, no **** Skyrim, .

In long, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of the many, MANY problems with Skyrim, the "classless" idea is by far one of the worst, especially in regards to a game like this. The classless system in Skyrim ended up being arbitrary, strong arming you to look at the races as classes I.E., No One in their right mind is going to play a nonBreton or Altmer Mage, because they're tailored towards it, and being an Altmer Warrior is a waste, etc.

As for other points, most everyone else has covered them.

I did, several times, with great success

That's where the, "In Their Right Mind" part comes into play. But please, do go into more detail about how that statement is wrong in any way, sans you being an apoligistic contrarian.

Modifié par brettc893, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[Celene II]

Cant we just get rid of the entire RPG concept now and just be done with it. Instead of stripping it  piece by piece over game by game.

It hurts enough watching them actionize (My word) every old rpg. Cant we keep something of the RPG in our RPGs.