100 réponses à ce sujet

[brettc893]

Celene II wrote...

Cant we just get rid of the entire RPG concept now and just be done with it. Instead of stripping it  piece by piece over game by game.

It hurts enough watching them actionize (My word) every old rpg. Cant we keep something of the RPG in our RPGs.

Get with the times! It's almost 2013, the time for intelligent thinking in regards to video games is OVER Oldster! If it doesn't involve pulling a trigger or swinging wildly until it's dead, we don't wanna do it!

/S

[xsdob]

Celene II wrote...

Cant we just get rid of the entire RPG concept now and just be done with it. Instead of stripping it  piece by piece over game by game.

It hurts enough watching them actionize (My word) every old rpg. Cant we keep something of the RPG in our RPGs.

Stagnation is no path at all, except to ruination.

Or to put it another way,

"Even those who fancy themselves the most progressive will fight against other kinds of progress, for each of us is convinced that our way is the best way." — Louis L'Amour The Lonely Men

And this, just becasue I like it a lot.

 "Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him." — Dwight D. Eisenhower

Modifié par xsdob, 13 décembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Celene II]

I'm always willing to accept change, just as long as it isn't change for the sake of change. If that change will result in a better way of doing things, then I'm all for it.

James K. Van Fleet

I dont think this is a better way

[xsdob]

Celene II wrote...

I'm always willing to accept change, just as long as it isn't change for the sake of change. If that change will result in a better way of doing things, then I'm all for it.

James K. Van Fleet

I dont think this is a better way

I like it:D.  Very nice quote.

Two more, than I'll leave it at that.

"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things." — Niccolo Machiavelli The Prince (1532)

"Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change." — Confucius

I think it would be fair, from your point of view, to say that not changing the old rpg standard would be the wisest thing  to do. And you may be right, but I for one embrace the changes as they come without fear, just like I embrace our new abomination overlords should everyone suddenly become mages.

[Marvin_Arnold]

xsdob wrote...

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true.

And that's exactly what "my" solution to that loathed M/T-"civil war" story arch has always been: 

Flemeth, being the Übergoddess, gives magical abilities to everyone. Templars become obsolete, as does discrimination against mages.

Which would mandate a classless system. Of course, that would be at the end of DA3, so the "classless" system could first be implemented in DA4.

That said, personally I prefer the class system, for story reasons.

So you now have a nation of untrained mages, millions of poeple, all susceptible to demonic possession, and no way to possibly have all of them trained in time to stop them from falling to temptation, what with no training to resist demons, and become abominations.

Since that system was a complete failure, as seen with every single mage in DA2, we can well dispense with that "training".

So your solution is to offer up all of thedas to the demons as an all you can take body fest for them to take over and wreak havok with.

Oh joy. What a wonderful world.  I for one welcome our new abomination overlords.

Did you know that sarcasm causes ugly lines in your pretty face, fair lady?

I'm sure Flemeth has a solution for that, too. (the demons, not the lines.)

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 13 décembre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Marvin_Arnold]

brettc893 wrote...

Celene II wrote...

Cant we just get rid of the entire RPG concept now and just be done with it. Instead of stripping it  piece by piece over game by game.

It hurts enough watching them actionize (My word) every old rpg. Cant we keep something of the RPG in our RPGs.

Get with the times! It's almost 2013, the time for intelligent thinking in regards to video games is OVER Oldster! If it doesn't involve pulling a trigger or swinging wildly until it's dead, we don't wanna do it!

/S

RPGs are for old geezers with pen and paper. If it takes more than two thumbs to play, the target demographic won't buy it...

Did you know that DA4 will only be available on smartphones?

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 13 décembre 2012 - 02:36 .

[Navasha]

Sometimes the assumption of what is better is wrong. Look at XCOM. Everyone said that a turn-based tactical game would fail miserably in this current decade of gaming. Yet, it was a huge hit!

So sometimes you just need to go back to an old formula.

[snackrat]

hhh89 wrote...

Templar's skills works only against mages. And the Veil's thinnier status wouldn't trasform everyone in mages. It'll let demons in Thedas easier. There's no connection between the weakening of the Veil and people having magical abilities. ...*snip*

Not that you can really take what he says at face-value, since he is a joke character, but Talkative Man (aka Meta Guy or That Loony in the Hanged Man) does make the remark:

Talkative Man:

My mother says there are a lot more mages around than when she was a child. I wonder if it's the lyrium in the water?

Since magic comes from one's connection to the Fade, who's to say that doesn't happen? Maybe some people are inately closer, but without the strength to pierce the Veil they have no magic. Maybe that is was lucid dreaming is - not quite self-awareness, but a degree of interaction.

*dun-dun-duuuuuhhhn*

[SpunkyMonkey]

Nizaris1 wrote...

What if the Maker decided that every new born for the next 5 years in Thedas are Mages?

Can anyone answer that?

So, the player will have no choice at all and play as Mages, because Mages cannot do other things than magic.

All perfectly possible, but I think you're missing the point that most people don't see the point in butchering the DA franchize just to accomodate ideas from another one.

It would be far easier and sensible for Bioware to experiment with these ideas in a future franchize.

[The Elder King]

Karsciyin wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Templar's skills works only against mages. And the Veil's thinnier status wouldn't trasform everyone in mages. It'll let demons in Thedas easier. There's no connection between the weakening of the Veil and people having magical abilities. ...*snip*

Not that you can really take what he says at face-value, since he is a joke character, but Talkative Man (aka Meta Guy or That Loony in the Hanged Man) does make the remark:

Talkative Man:

My mother says there are a lot more mages around than when she was a child. I wonder if it's the lyrium in the water?

Since magic comes from one's connection to the Fade, who's to say that doesn't happen? Maybe some people are inately closer, but without the strength to pierce the Veil they have no magic. Maybe that is was lucid dreaming is - not quite self-awareness, but a degree of interaction.

*dun-dun-duuuuuhhhn*

It's an interesting though, and, if they ever go to the all-mages route, would be more plausible than Synthesis, though I don't think they'd make all the people in Thedas mages. Regardless, it's not something Bioware would throw in the game before making the process one of the main plots of a game, since it'd change quite a bit the world.

Nizaris1 wrote...

everybody complains that Darkspawn are LotR Orcs, boring and unoriginal...now similar with Mages are Mutans of X-Men...

Mage vs Templar is Mutan vs Human...

The future of DA will be similar to X-Men The Last Stand...or Apocalypse...

Prof
X is like Wayne or Irving...Tevinter Magister is like Magneto...then
there is a giant robot Archdemon destroying everyone...

originality?

Everybody complains that DAO darkspawn looks like orcs. The problem was solved (quite horribly, in my opinion) in DA2. We'll se what will happen in DA3.
As far as I know humans in X-Men don't have anti-mutant abilites like the templars. Regarldess, mages in DA are a bit similar to mutants in X-Men, but if you think that you could find a concept about anything in fantasy completely new, you're going to be disappointed. And there are some differencies between mages and mutants, like the fact that mages could be even more dangerous if they are possessed by demons. Mutants (at least in general, since I'm no expert of X-Men, and I don't know if there's some character like that) can't be possessed by something, making them far more powerful.
Your analogy about Wynne-Irwing with Xavier and TM with Magneto is ridicolous, without even considering the Archdemon who will probably not come out for a few centuries. And unless you're a Bioware writer or have some informants inside Bioware, you have no idea of the mage-templars story would develop, and if it'll be in any way similar to X-Men.

[MichaelStuart]

I support getting rid of classes.
Mages can be a race.

[ShaggyWolf]

No. Just because it works in Skyrim doesn't mean it's a great idea to include it in every RPG. Elder Scrolls games were never centered around classes. If you think about it, Oblivion and Morrowind "classes" were really just packages of skills you wanted to use and be good at as a player, with the player being able to define their own. It really wasn't very different than what you see in Skyrim, except there was a title attatched to the skills you'd use the most.

Dragon age, on the other hand, is focused on party-based combat. Think of your character as more of an RTS unit in combat. Your class choice determines what kind of unit you are. Unlike the earlier elder scrolls games, your class choice in Dragon Age has a profound impact on your character's capabilities. Each PC class and companion brings something unique to the table. They contribute specific talents with a focus on fighting as a team, rather than an individual. This is very important in a game which focuses on using tactics, planning, positioning, and team synergy to overcome challenges. Take all that away, and you would have a very poor dragon age game as a result.

[Solmanian]

Todd23 wrote...

I think we should choose either magic or non-magic, and build up are character as we play. Not like Skyrim giving you points for using this or that. But whenever we choose a skill tree it should affect the additional abilities we can get from other skill trees. It always bothered me that when I was in the tower in Origins I was able to get all the fire spells. I couldn't cast any other type of spells but everyone was calling me a prodigy. This gave me the idea that I'm a pyromancer, and yet 4 levels later I was just as skilled in another skill tree. If fire was my specialty, how about an option to continue to work on it in some way? Or if I could have a fire variance on later spells?

OK. What?!

[Solmanian]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The classless system is making class by own choices actually

I don't see why so many complain about it. If the player want to play as a Warrior, just choose Warrior skill at each level up, what is the problem?

Let see...today we have soldiers in real life, a soldier also can sweep mines, sneak attack, making ambush, they color their face for disguise in the forest, they can treat injuries....in a group of soldiers there are sweeper, technician, doctor, sniper, shock trooper...ect...meaning a soldier can do anything that they have skill with

Why a Warrior cannot disarm trap in game? Why only Rogue can lockpicking? Why Mages cannot use other than magic?

Let say Hawke is a Mage, he/she only now magic from the early beginning of his/her life to the end...he/she never learn anything else? Isn't that making him/her a Qunari?

At least in DA:O there is Skill tab where we can choose skills such as Coercion, Stealing, Trap Making, Survival, Herbalism, Poison Making, Combat and Tactician (but funny is if you are a Warrior or Mage, you can make traps but know how to disarm traps)

I prefer KotOR system where there is class and cross class skill, at least my Revan is not the stupidest Jedi/Sith in the universe....

Ok, speaking as a veteran as actual combat veteran, most of the things you mentioned as different things soldiers do, those soldiers usually belong to a specific unit or have undergone special training. For example, I was a tank crewman, but my entire company was dedicated for things usually done by combat engineers: bridging, mine sweeping, etc. Just because most basic training covers first aid, doesn't mean that a grunt's medical skills are even remotely equal to a medic's... Most soldiers get very specific training for the job they're expected to do for the duration of their service, and a select few are sent for additional training courses. A combat unit has diverse composition (medic, heavy weapon, explosives, etc...) to be effective in any combat scenario, but the indiviual soldier is specialized to be the best at what he do. A medic is unlikely to be proficient with SAW's (squad automatic weapon: usually a heavy machine gun), since he will be expected to concentrate on aring for wounded and not laying suppressing fire...

Just saying

[Solmanian]

xsdob wrote...

So you now have a nation of untrained mages, millions of poeple, all susceptible to demonic possession, and no way to possibly have all of them trained in time to stop them from falling to temptation, what with no training to resist demons, and become abominations.

So your solution is to offer up all of thedas to the demons as an all you can take body fest for them to take over and wreak havok with.

Oh joy. What a wonderful world.  I for one welcome our new abomination overlords.

That's why you need the inquisition... Can't wait to play one of the ordo mallus . Hope we get a grey knight henchman.

[Solmanian]

brettc893 wrote...

In short, no **** Skyrim, .

In long, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of the many, MANY problems with Skyrim, the "classless" idea is by far one of the worst, especially in regards to a game like this. The classless system in Skyrim ended up being arbitrary, strong arming you to look at the races as classes I.E., No One in their right mind is going to play a nonBreton or Altmer Mage, because they're tailored towards it, and being an Altmer Warrior is a waste, etc.

As for other points, most everyone else has covered them.

I usually choose my race on what I think I can roleplay well, hence choosing nord for skyrim. As for warrior/mage/rogue? I usualy try to master everything: sneaking with 2 handed weapons and starting upfront combat with ranged destruction spells...

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

In story terms it doesn't work at all. If everybody has access to mage skills, then the whole Mage vs Templar problem doesn't make any sense nor does the idea that only certain people are born with it hold true.

And that's exactly what "my" solution to that loathed M/T-"civil war" story arch has always been: 

Flemeth, being the Übergoddess, gives magical abilities to everyone. Templars become obsolete, as does discrimination against mages.

Which would mandate a classless system. Of course, that would be at the end of DA3, so the "classless" system could first be implemented in DA4.

That said, personally I prefer the class system, for story reasons.

Everyone having access to magic...


I want BioWare to resolve the mage/templar conflict (which I don't hate personally, but don't want hijacking the series for the next few games and becoming the issue at the core of every title) and move on to something new for us to get involved in the world of Thedas. Your suggestion, Marvin_Arnold, while not bad per se feels too much like the resolution to a multi-part game like the Mass Effect Trilogy, where the devs and writers are not entirely sure that they're ever going to set a game after the game that resolves a central problem (e.g. the Reapers in the Mass Effect series). I think the devs have always said that they'd like to keep Dragon Age moving forward chronologically and for fans not to expect prequels or games set in ages other than the Dragon Age itself.

Before you say that I'm missing the point, my feeling is that creating a classless Dragon Age game would be too much of a departure from the type of RPG that Dragon Age, especially Origins/ Awakening, pays homage to. I think the series will always maintain the Holy Trinity of Warriors, Rogues, and Mages.

I'm all in favour, as I believe I mentioned before, of BioWare experimenting with a classless system in a future game, but I'd prefer it not be a Dragon Age game, or a post-trilogy Mass Effect game for that matter, but an entirely new franchise.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 14 décembre 2012 - 01:36 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

abaris wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You cannot opt for all, otherwise you won't be good in anything.

Yeah, but given the level cap, that's nowhere near as important as it was with NWN2.

What's more, as I said previously, you can make head of the mage's guild by only having cast the one spell to gain entrance to it's halls. That's even a huge step backwards from Morrowind's system.

That last paragraph has nothing to do with the intention of anything I wrote. Do you really think I want to get dragged into a conversation where I defend one game is better than the other? It's not about that all.

[XX-Pyro]

Make them slightly less distinct, so you can make a warrior-ish rogue or a rogue-ish warrior. As for mages, bring back Arcane Warrior please!

[Heimdall]

I like classes, I feel Bioware has made them a great feature of the series.

Broadly, all I want them to do is to find a way to differentiate warriors and rogues that isn't as restrictive as DA2's method.