62 réponses à ce sujet

[NoForgiveness]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

using mods is like cutting paintings with a knife

Which is why you never see developers incorporating features from mods into their games...<_<

which they shouldnt do. Its like da Vinci incorporating a mustache on the Mona lisa

[lazuli]

With tiles, please. I realize that the DA:O toolset was much more powerful than NWN's could ever have hoped to be, but that doesn't do me any good if I have to dedicate weeks towards figuring out how to do even the most simple map creation.

We need a resurgence in user-friendly customization options.

[Orian Tabris]

Mods? For Dragon Age? Oh, don't be silly!

The only mods we need are ones that fix bugs BioWare won't patch.

[Kileyan]

Then don't use the mods, or more likely quit complaining because your gaming platform of choice won't let you mod.

None of you examples matter since changing a newly released game is no way comparable to a piece of art that has stood the test of decades or centuries.

Who will remember DA3 five years from now, or even if it is some super worthy piece of art, who will exclude it as art because some PC gamer was able to mod it so that he could ride of horse or do something the devs wouldn't do.

[Kileyan]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Mods? For Dragon Age? Oh, don't be silly!

The only mods we need are ones that fix bugs BioWare won't patch.

Which is every single bug in the game, they won't be patched until a paid DLC release is ready for an Xbox DLC and patch push. Even then most won't be patched, we'll be told the game can be completed so it is working as intended, no matter if game mechanics never work as intended.

Modifié par Kileyan, 13 décembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[David Gaider]

Suggest reading this thread first, and the responses therein, from the last time this came up.

[Imp of the Perverse]

MR_PN wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

using mods is like cutting paintings with a knife

Which is why you never see developers incorporating features from mods into their games...<_<

which they shouldnt do. Its like da Vinci incorporating a mustache on the Mona lisa

Your concept of game development seems a little warped. Here's an exerpt from an interview w/ Josh Sawyer, lead designer for New Vegas:

Is the Hardcore mode inspired by a Fallout 3 mod? Were there mods form the PC community that inspired design choices for New Vegas? 

I don't think it was one specific mod that we looked at for Hardcore mode. A lot of people will just build mix and match mods. One of the great things about the Oblivion/Fallout 3engine is that it's very easy to just turn on and turn off mods as you see fit. So one person can make like a basic needs mod, like food and sleep and water. And another person can make something that, you know, changes how VATS works. And you don't have to download that as one big massive thing.

So we looked at a bunch of different mods. We looked at weapon mods. We looked at the various basic needs mods. We looked at the ways that people tried to make new Perks, especially when it came time for thinking about how we wanted to do Perks. Looking at how modders makes perks gives us an idea of the sort of boundaries and limitations of the engine as it stands. 

You can sort of see where a line gets drawn once somebody makes a mod. Like this level of kind of working with what you've got is acceptable and does not seem like a hack. And after a certain point it starts to seem like a hack and causes bugs. So we often look at mods to see like, is what these people are doing within our own capabilities just right out of the box or are they really doing some crazy ****?

If they're getting a cool effect, and we want to do it, that might involve us actually coding it so that we can do it more easily than they did. So mods are very, very useful for developers, even if we're not specifically doing what they're doing. Just by observing people using the mechanics of the engine and the scripting and everything, it gives us a lot of ideas of what to do and what not to do.

Modifié par Imp of the Perverse, 13 décembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

[isaa109]

I'll bet you ten soverigns they won't!

[AmstradHero]

MR_PN wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

using mods is like cutting paintings with a knife

Which is why you never see developers incorporating features from mods into their games...<_<

which they shouldnt do. Its like da Vinci incorporating a mustache on the Mona lisa

Right, because those gamers, they never know what they want. And nothing good has ever come from a game mod ever... Oh, wait...
Except for those things like: Team Fortress, Counterstrike, Battlefield: Desert Combat (which delivered us from the WWII shooter glut to the modern day shooter glut), DotA, DayZ...

Many mods have been made by people who were game developers, or who have gone on to become game developers.

I definitely agree that there are plenty of mods that are truly awful, but to say that all mods are bad is ill-informed, inaccurate, and bigoted.

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

So what you're saying is that because you play on a console and you can't have them, then no one should have them? That is a childish argument at best.


Regardless, as links to previous threads suggest, a toolset is highly unlikely due to the reliance on third party software. Also, given the lack of support for the modding community of DA:O back when it was current doesn't provide much incentive for BioWare to provide it. If the players didn't support the toolset and mods for DA:O (and the support and popularity was definitely limited), then why would they support them for DA3?

Modifié par AmstradHero, 13 décembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

Then if that's true then I don't have anything to worry about.

[NoForgiveness]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

using mods is like cutting paintings with a knife

Which is why you never see developers incorporating features from mods into their games...<_<

which they shouldnt do. Its like da Vinci incorporating a mustache on the Mona lisa

Your concept of game development seems a little warped. Here's an exerpt from an interview w/ Josh Sawyer, lead designer for New Vegas:

Is the Hardcore mode inspired by a Fallout 3 mod? Were there mods form the PC community that inspired design choices for New Vegas? 

I don't think it was one specific mod that we looked at for Hardcore mode. A lot of people will just build mix and match mods. One of the great things about the Oblivion/Fallout 3engine is that it's very easy to just turn on and turn off mods as you see fit. So one person can make like a basic needs mod, like food and sleep and water. And another person can make something that, you know, changes how VATS works. And you don't have to download that as one big massive thing.

So we looked at a bunch of different mods. We looked at weapon mods. We looked at the various basic needs mods. We looked at the ways that people tried to make new Perks, especially when it came time for thinking about how we wanted to do Perks. Looking at how modders makes perks gives us an idea of the sort of boundaries and limitations of the engine as it stands. 

You can sort of see where a line gets drawn once somebody makes a mod. Like this level of kind of working with what you've got is acceptable and does not seem like a hack. And after a certain point it starts to seem like a hack and causes bugs. So we often look at mods to see like, is what these people are doing within our own capabilities just right out of the box or are they really doing some crazy ****?

If they're getting a cool effect, and we want to do it, that might involve us actually coding it so that we can do it more easily than they did. So mods are very, very useful for developers, even if we're not specifically doing what they're doing. Just by observing people using the mechanics of the engine and the scripting and everything, it gives us a lot of ideas of what to do and what not to do.

pffft ur talking about new Vegas? No wonder that game sucked ass

[Kileyan]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

Are you saying that because you can't use a toolset because you play games on Xbox, that pc gamers who get a toolset should be punished by not being allowed to purchase DLCs?

Seriously, fair to you is punishing someone because they get somthing you could get, but you dont want to spend money for?

[PinkDiamondstl]

Kileyan wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

Are you saying that because you can't use a toolset because you play games on Xbox, that pc gamers who get a toolset should be punished by not being allowed to purchase DLCs?

Seriously, fair to you is punishing someone because they get somthing you could get, but you dont want to spend money for?

Yes I am that selfish...but there is no point to any of this because in the other thread it states that a toolset for DA3 is highly unlikely that alone puts a smile on my face. 

[AmstradHero]

BioWare forums: now home to trolls, uninformed judgmental haters, and the utterly selfish. What happened to the neighborhood?

[Imp of the Perverse]

MR_PN wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

using mods is like cutting paintings with a knife

Which is why you never see developers incorporating features from mods into their games...<_<

which they shouldnt do. Its like da Vinci incorporating a mustache on the Mona lisa

Your concept of game development seems a little warped. Here's an exerpt from an interview w/ Josh Sawyer, lead designer for New Vegas:

Is the Hardcore mode inspired by a Fallout 3 mod? Were there mods form the PC community that inspired design choices for New Vegas? 

I don't think it was one specific mod that we looked at for Hardcore mode. A lot of people will just build mix and match mods. One of the great things about the Oblivion/Fallout 3engine is that it's very easy to just turn on and turn off mods as you see fit. So one person can make like a basic needs mod, like food and sleep and water. And another person can make something that, you know, changes how VATS works. And you don't have to download that as one big massive thing.

So we looked at a bunch of different mods. We looked at weapon mods. We looked at the various basic needs mods. We looked at the ways that people tried to make new Perks, especially when it came time for thinking about how we wanted to do Perks. Looking at how modders makes perks gives us an idea of the sort of boundaries and limitations of the engine as it stands. 

You can sort of see where a line gets drawn once somebody makes a mod. Like this level of kind of working with what you've got is acceptable and does not seem like a hack. And after a certain point it starts to seem like a hack and causes bugs. So we often look at mods to see like, is what these people are doing within our own capabilities just right out of the box or are they really doing some crazy ****?

If they're getting a cool effect, and we want to do it, that might involve us actually coding it so that we can do it more easily than they did. So mods are very, very useful for developers, even if we're not specifically doing what they're doing. Just by observing people using the mechanics of the engine and the scripting and everything, it gives us a lot of ideas of what to do and what not to do.

pffft ur talking about new Vegas? No wonder that game sucked ass

Yeah, not my favorite game either, but there are similar quotes from Todd Howard regarding Skyrim, which was a bit more popular.

[Saibh]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Yes I am that selfish...but there is no point to any of this because in the other thread it states that a toolset for DA3 is highly unlikely that alone puts a smile on my face. 

You're essentially saying you're so irrationally jealous of people who get things that you can't--because it's impossible for you to get them in the first place--you just don't want them to have it at all.

That's like wishing someone wasn't allowed to bake cookies to eat because you don't have an oven and can only buy the pre-made ones. 

Modifié par Saibh, 13 décembre 2012 - 07:07 .

[Kileyan]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

Are you saying that because you can't use a toolset because you play games on Xbox, that pc gamers who get a toolset should be punished by not being allowed to purchase DLCs?

Seriously, fair to you is punishing someone because they get somthing you could get, but you dont want to spend money for?

Yes I am that selfish...but there is no point to any of this because in the other thread it states that a toolset for DA3 is highly unlikely that alone puts a smile on my face. 

Thats cool, please continue running over the neighbors dogs and cats with your Honda, because those animals bring no joy to you.

[PinkDiamondstl]

Kileyan wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

No because it would be for PC only so no.If PC players get the toolset then they should't get the DLCs it's only fair..

Are you saying that because you can't use a toolset because you play games on Xbox, that pc gamers who get a toolset should be punished by not being allowed to purchase DLCs?

Seriously, fair to you is punishing someone because they get somthing you could get, but you dont want to spend money for?

Yes I am that selfish...but there is no point to any of this because in the other thread it states that a toolset for DA3 is highly unlikely that alone puts a smile on my face. 

Thats cool, please continue running over the neighbors dogs and cats with your Honda, because those animals bring no joy to you.

I would never do that...

[JWvonGoethe]

Saibh wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Yes I am that selfish...but there is no point to any of this because in the other thread it states that a toolset for DA3 is highly unlikely that alone puts a smile on my face. 

You're essentially saying you're so irrationally jealous of people who get things that you can't--because it's impossible for you to get them in the first place--you just don't want them to have it at all.

That's like wishing someone wasn't allowed to bake cookies to eat because you don't have an oven and can only buy the pre-made ones. 

If it's any consolation, I'm a console gamer and I support a DA3 toolset for PC users. I think the ideal would be that developers always aimed for releasing a toolset for any RPG released on PC. More people being more able to enjoy themselves is a good thing.

Anyway, toolsets extend the lifespan of games which is good for developers and for fans when it comes to publicity and expansions: look at something like Gamespot's 'Mods of the Week' feature for Skyrim. Gamespot are still regularly providing free publicity for a game released over a year ago, and that's just one example of that happening with Skyrim. In turn, Bethesda are still releasing high quality expansions for Skyrim, and could (and likely will) continue to do so for another six months or so.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Suggest reading this thread first, and the responses therein, from the last time this came up.

From one of the the responses in that thread:

David Gaider wrote...

It's generally considered a goodwill project, one with the added benefit of helping a game's community. That community will develop even without it, and they will mod whether there's a toolset or not, but something to help them from our end can help that along a great deal.

Personally, I'd say this is something to start asking for after release-- though it probably doesn't hurt to keep asking regardless. Not that the company is unaware of the desire, but it never hurts to keep awareness up.

Deal.  Consider awareness kept up 

[PinkysPain]

EA doesn't like modding because anything which can't be monetized scares them. Bioware doesn't like modding because the majority of them are now old and tired and feel their artistic integrity would be endangered by modding tools.

By the powers of greed and fear combined we get no modding tools.

[Navasha]

PinkysPain wrote...

EA doesn't like modding because anything which can't be monetized scares them. Bioware doesn't like modding because the majority of them are now old and tired and feel their artistic integrity would be endangered by modding tools.

By the powers of greed and fear combined we get no modding tools.

That is hardly helpful.   Its not like modding tools just suddenly spring up magically and they are being suppressed.   

I would say that developing a truly user-friendly modding toolkit is probably as much work as an entire premium DLC package. 

Bethesda develops a  toolkit BEFORE the game and then uses it to create the content.   Making that same toolkit ready for end-user use took months.     Its not a simple matter.

Just leave us an override folder or some other means that allows us an access port to the game content and the modders will figure out the rest.

If a toolkit comes later, thats a big plus for everyone!   (Well, maybe not the troll posters who want to to deny anything to anyone that they can't have)

Modifié par Navasha, 13 décembre 2012 - 03:19 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

PC players should't be allowed have a toolkit if the Xbox/PS3 players can't use it .It's only right ,that does't make me a troll/hater. Navasha the toolkit is't going to happen so drop it.

[zeypher]

Though i would like a toolset, this is EA we talking about. So yea not gonna happen