194 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

TinuHawke wrote...

If you don't want to do romance, fine by me. I don't get why you should need a reward for it though.

[upsettingshorts]

I think we should be able to claim we have a girlfriend in the Anderfels who is a fashion model and is totally real.

[Pelle6666]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Um, sure. An achievement for remaining chaste sounds fine.

I'm not sure why someone would give you an item just because you haven't hooked up, unless it's like a magical vibrator or something.

Just brilliant!

[BouncyFrag]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think we should be able to claim we have a girlfriend in the Anderfels who is a fashion model and is totally real.

and I thought I was the only one....

[d4eaming]

Statulos wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

If you don't want to do romance, fine by me. I don't get why you should need a reward for it though.

Because some people find them cheesy and shallow, or just want to roleplay a chaste hero for whatever reason.

Wouldn't the reward be denying yourself the cheesy and shallow content?

Then, make sure it´s not cheesy and shallow. You´re still on time, boys.

Not everyone thinks the romances are cheesy and shallow. If you don't want to romance, then don't do it. Easy.

[CroGamer002]

Who gives you a reward for being single?

If people think you're single, they'll either:
A) Nag you to hook up with someone
Try to hook up with you
C) Not give a damn

Pick one.

[fiendishchicken]

Congratulations you managed to circle jerk your way through a trilogy. Talk to our community manager, he doesn't like romance either.

[mnomaha]

^^^fiendishchicken wins the entire freaking web on that one.

[rolson00]

David Gaider wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Wouldn't the reward be denying yourself the cheesy and shallow content?

I'm afraid I'm with Allan on this one. Romances are already optional content, which you're under no obligation to use. The idea that we'd make extra content to reward people who don't want to use other content seems a little self-defeating. The non-romance content is the rest of the game.

You're welcome.

i rised an eye brow when i read the title of this :happy:

[Neon Rising Winter]

You could make it a New Game + feature. Finish a game without a romance and in the next go round your character is renamed Master Bates in an apocryphal Captain Pugwash joke. Now it just needs a variant for female characters.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Why do I get the feeling this thread was created by some conservative religious group?

[Josielyn]

Sure, why not? How about an Achievement called the Blue Ball award? Or, maybe +1 Constitution == call it Virginity Boon. You lose the +1 once you romance someone physically.

[HTTP 404]

often times I forget that there is romance options.

[HTTP 404]

Josielyn wrote...

Sure, why not? How about an Achievement called the Blue Ball award? Or, maybe +1 Constitution == call it Virginity Boon. You lose the +1 once you romance someone physically.

shouldn't that be the case if your only romance is a fictional one?

[Neon Rising Winter]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Josielyn wrote...

Sure, why not? How about an Achievement called the Blue Ball award? Or, maybe +1 Constitution == call it Virginity Boon. You lose the +1 once you romance someone physically.

shouldn't that be the case if your only romance is a fictional one?

It would certainly be an innovative new feature to hand out bonuses based on the status of the player rather than the character, but there's some data I just don't want them to have for marketing purposes.

[henkez3]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Josielyn wrote...

Sure, why not? How about an Achievement called the Blue Ball award? Or, maybe +1 Constitution == call it Virginity Boon. You lose the +1 once you romance someone physically.

shouldn't that be the case if your only romance is a fictional one?

Oh snap.

Ontopic: I agree with many that getting a reward to skip certain content is a bit weird. I found that Aveline coming and talk to you sort of sounds like what you want for people who do not romance anyone.

Admittedly I only romanced someone on my first and second playthrough in DA2, my subsequent playthroughs have been romance free. I simply did not like the romance options very much in DA2. Merril and Isabela *shiver*.

Morrigan and Leliana were far better imo. Playing as a female character in DA:O I found that romancing Alistair was kind of funny because he is such a funny dude, Zevran was okay too.

[Nefla]

lunamoondragon wrote...

 Okay, so at first I read this topic and snickered about it. The romance is a little extra content, no big deal if you avoid it or take it.

But then I thought about Dragon Age's setting, specifically the Chantry. As learned from Sebastian in Dragon Age II, vows of chastity are existent there. What if you wanted to join the Chantry in that manner?
Well, if you took a romance you probably couldn't, right?
There's a thought. Not a big deal, but some brain-food to chew on.

Actually it would be cool to be able to join the Chantry and be the DA equivalent of a nun or a monk.

[LPPrince]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LPPrince: And now someone is asking if there's room for consideration of a focused individual not driven by virtual lust.

I'm not sure why you're protesting it.

Is it because "you" wouldn't choose it - so someone else should just "fill in the blanks"?

Isn't "a focused individual not driven by virtual lust" someone who avoids the romances?

They aren't mandatory. *shrugs* I don't see the problem.

[Dean_the_Young]

While this thread took a strong turn towards the silly side, I think this is actually a sensible topic. I'll try and add my own thoughts to why the OP has a point.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

If you don't want to do romance, fine by me. I don't get why you should need a reward for it though.

Because some people find them cheesy and shallow, or just want to roleplay a chaste hero for whatever reason.

Wouldn't the reward be denying yourself the cheesy and shallow content?

I think this is looking at it the wrong way, Allan. What the OP seemed to be describing to me wasn't so much as looking for a reward in staying chaste as much as recognition and reflection of the fact which could be reflected in any number of ways. A token reward (even satiracle) would count: imagine if an un-romanced Hawk got a ticket for a free session at the ****house? Especially if said Hawk got it as a gag gift from Varric in a small cutscene? 



Romances involve content of varying amounts of shallowness and cheesiness (which is to say they can be very deep and very... well, not cheesy), but I feel they do offer three prime roles in many games (including Bioware): they offer more character involvement/development (getting to know a character better), more character interaction (ie, dialogue content), and quite often they do provide some 'gain' for a player, like a token of affection (a romance-specific item of value) or a modest advantage (special perks/benefits/abilities) or even narrative effects (killing archdemons on your behalf... you know, small stuff). But the biggest thing they do in Bioware games, in my experience, is add to the emotional capstone moment... often the culmination moment before the finale.

In terms of Bioware, one of the ways this reflected (particularly in ME2 and ME3) was that romances simply added more dialogue and scenes with the player than a non-romance player got. While obviously applicable on the grounds of the romance itself, sometimes those scenes that were romance-specific don't necessarily need a romance to be appropriate.

One of my favorite 'romance' scenes in Mass Effect 1, for example, is the post-Normandy lock-down in which the LI comes to find Shepard by the locker, looking worn down and defeated, and gives Shepard a chance to rally from weakness and emerge with new dedication, ready to defy the Council and the Alliance in order to save the day. A touching moment of closeness, almost a kiss, is ruined by Joker at the most inopportune moment.

It's touching. It's inspiring. It's quite frankly amazing to me as a piece of character-building of an RPG PC, and it has absolutely no no-romance equivalent. Shepard just sits there, alone and unspeaking, until Joker calls, even when (bar the kiss) a pep talk by Garrus or Wrex or even ME1-Tali could have had much the same effect.

Optional content is optional, of course, and more content is always desired, but romances in Bioware have frequently operated as 'capstone moments', particularly the romance-culmination scenes that occur right before the Final Battle. In a moment of pressure and tension and near-death, the emotional high in that last calm before the storm makes an excellent moment for that culminating moment of character development and relationship... and it's produced some impressive scenes that even I'll admit to being impressed by. The Sucide Mission of ME2 had its flaws, but I thought the romance culminations (especially ones such as Garrus's) were among the best moments of Bioware writing in the game.

But does that moment of catharsis of a capstone moment really require a romance to bring out? Imagine this instead: 

Awaiting the final jump to Omega 4, Shepard goes to cantina to find the loyal, non-romanceable members of the team sitting at the table. They're talking, thinking, or even drinking as they dwell on the enormity of what lies ahead. Someone sees Shepard and waves the Commander over. Shepard, perhaps at the player's choice, either stands back or joins the table. Shepard, sitting with the lovable unlovables, shares a moment of seriousness or sillyness or stirring resolution or just simple comraderies, and the concern of the upcomming mission changes to resolution as Shepard finds strength not in the arms of another, but in the company of a band of brothers. Fade to black.

Optional content is optional, and in some respects exclusive extras make sense to be exclusive. But when exclusive content plays a narrative role (such as stroking the emotional highs of a scenario), the exclusiveness makes a bit less sense to me. There are things that only lovers can do, yes, but there are things simply friends can do as well.


Now, I'll pre-emptively point out that Dragon Age romances don't quite follow the mold of the Mass Effect/Jade Empire/other games romances like I was quoting. This isn't to say that they didn't have captstone moments (I fondly remember Merrill of DA2 coming to comfort Hawke after Leliandra's death: I can't recall an equivalent emotional support for a non-romanced Hawk), but the Dragon Age series has followed a pacing that has allowed romances to culminate on a less time-predictable way: rather than consumating at the end, for example, you could do so at various times or places in the narrative. But even without the same captsone moments the recognition of romances can still occur (companion banter, dialogue options, and otherwise)... and just as recognizing a romance can bring flavor to a game, recognizing the lack of romance can add its own flair.


To illustrate my point, I'd like to reference the game Persona 4. Without referrencing the plot, a large part of the game consists on developing relationships (initially platonic) with a wide range of characters. Naturally romance options exist, and assuming the player has officiated the romance and met certain conditions, the culminating event of the relationship is that the player receives the option to have the LI come over for a Christmas Eve date, alone and unchaperoned, to the PC's house with obvious fade-to-black connotations. To top it off, each LI provides the PC a token of their affection, a unique item that serves as a powerful accessory: elemental immunity, heightened magic points, that sort of thing.

Suffice to say, it's sweet and romantic and appropriate for the sort of game Persona 4 is. Pretty similar to various Bioware romance culminations.

Now, here's the twist... Christmas isn't a lovers-only thing. If you met the conditions for a free Christmas but do have a date , you get another text message invitation... from the bro's you've made in the journey. If you accept it, all you lonesome boys spend the most romantic of evenings alone together, in a sausage fest of amusing-yet-typical hinjinks of a night with the guys. Besides avoiding the stigma of 'forever alone' on Christmas Eve, you still get reward for it: the appropriately-named 'Macho Medal', which itself is a powerful accessory.


Let's compare: did romances still receive unique optional content? Yes: their romance scenes (and romance dialogue and opportunities to spending extra time with the romances) are unique to them. But not romancing anyone still offered it's own recognition/benefit: content that could only be seen by not fulfilling a romance with someone.


This shouldn't be read as a demand that the DA team be as even-handed in creating content and options: as I said earlier, some forms of content make sense in being unique to romances, particularly in character dynamics. P4 was its own type of game, DA is a different one, and there are things DA has pulled off with romances (the Alistair self-sacrifice scene) that stand out all the more for being only applicable in a romance.

But I do think that it would be in error to wave aside the idea of recognizing a lack of romance as an opportunity for 'exclusive' content.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 13 décembre 2012 - 01:59 .

[Pzykozis]

Yeah pretty much what dean said. It's not about avoiding optional content, it'd be more about making optional content have more reflections on the player / character. Which of course is a wish and a resource thing but meh.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pzykozis wrote...

rewards for skipping content.. uh the explorer and completionist in me is caught in a paradox.

Could be interesting and if it was a viable content alternative probably something that I'd take advantage of a lot, then you can annoy people by friendzoning them.

Take it further: not even 'alternative', but imagine if it was mutually-exclusive content. Just as not pursuing a romance blocks you from content, pursuing a romance could likewise block you from content. This could be done on two levels: content exclusive to people who have any relationships at all, or content exclusive to people who don't take one relationship in particular.


The former works best when the romances have those culminating capstone moments, story-relevant times that area set in stone/easily predictable. At such points having the romance content be mutually exclusive with alternative developments that would only occur if the PC wasn't in a romance. That can be as obvious as swapping conversations (my reference earlier to letting another NPC get Shepard the pep talk after being grounded), or you could develop a scenario in which the presence/lack of presence of a LI makes a sensible change to the narrative. Say that, in spending the night at the LI's place, the PC is not at home when some domestic emergency occurs (home burglary/live-in mother is kidnapped/fire in the kitchen). That mutually exclusive condition sparks a change that can have effects, big or small (player loses all their current money paying the repair bill: the price of love!).



The later is far more character-specific, but could also be used in dynamics between multiple characters. While at it's simplest it could be a reflection of dialogue/epilogue slides (a good 'you're a great friend' moment where a romance would say 'I love you'), it could also be more complex. To take a common extreme of human complexity, let's take a love triange between the PC and two NPCs. In this scenario, let's say that the two NPCs are at odds with eachother over the PC's affections. The PC has three options: LI A, LI B, or Neither.

If the PC pursues a relationship with either A OR B, then the PC can receive exclusive content/developments. On top of the usual romance-conversations/interactions, A and B could have scenes of heightened tension between them culminating in some dramatic outcome. (Say the jilted one, whichever it is, renounces their former friendship and soon after dies, leaving the LI with the PC but emotionally distressed.)

If the PC does NOT pursue an interest with either, though, a different outcome occurs. Their tensions abate as both realize the other isn't 'taking their man', they patch up their relationship, and without the animosity and reuinted with the Power of Friendship they both survive. Neither gets the PC as a LI, perhaps vowing not to let love get in the way of friendship, and the player gets exclusive content (the make-up scene) and the advantage of not losing the NPC/partymember.

[Navasha]

I can see it now.. a small cutscene where Isabela unceremoniously barges into Hawkes room without knocking, stops mid sentence as the camera zooms in on her shocked face. Then cuts to a camera outside the room with Isabela quickly stepping out of the room and slamming the door, saying,
"So Sorry, Hawke.. I will... I will just wait out here until your done." as she chuckles silently to herself.