194 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@LPPrince: Right - but if they took out violence and you solved these games with reason and understanding - I'd bet you would argue about "realism".

And nope - no need to let it go - I'm bored at work.

[Commander Kurt]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Commander Kurt: You can find total contentment (genuine happiness) in real work (I'm not talking about a job).

But the balancing act (of a great deed - and a great loving relationship) quite often fails.

I don't find trying to balance both "healthy" - but I do find the conflict compelling story material.

As I said though - people on the BSN don't want mature storytelling - they want "grimdark" with totally functional fantasy romances.

Not really a big deal - this is entertainment - but as a forum, I don't concern myself with censuring my opinion as that's what this is for.

I get what you're saying... I think. And I even agree on much of it. However, the DA romances I've tried (not many, but still) are hardly functional. I got a happy ending with Alistair once, but that's about it. I like that, don't get me wrong, but I honestly think this option exists. And there are probably people out there who imagine f/Hawke shaving her legs, going out dancing, dating Ken (or is it Fenris?) and living happily ever after, but so be it. If that's possible to roleplay with what the dev's give them then good for them.

I also like things like Mordin recognizing that you're single in ME2, it's a fun little snippet of content and I could see this in DA as well, but a benefit hardly seems realistic. I think the ones exaggerating the meaning of romance in this thread are the ones arguing against them, being in a relationship doesn't have to change that much. You just get someone to lean on.

Now, having children on the other hand... 

[Medhia Nox]

@Commander Kurt: Know any cops or fire fighters? Politicians? Artists?

A job, when treated with passion, can be very hard on a relationship.

I don't care one way or the other - but if they're trying for "mature" and "serious" or whatever words they throw around to make these games sound more adult... then stress in a relationship can be a very real thing.

I just think it's hypocritical when the same forum goers who will belittle a rainbow and puppies poster want a happy ending relationship because gawd forbid you deprive them of their favorite NPC digital doll sex show.

So I back up people who suggest other ways of thinking.

[d4eaming]

@Medhia, you come across as having far more an issue with "lol pixel secks" and how it should play out than anyone defending BW's usual NPC relationship routes. I doubt anyone here is looking for DA to give them a fake relationship because they're forever alone IRL- they are looking for escapism. Escapism typically involves reward in some fashion, and "escaping" into DA with a more-or-less happy PC at the end, then going back to real life with real things and real relationships and real realism, is what people want. No one has said they want a dating sim, they just want some happiness for their character.

You seem to have a massive personal problem with that, however.

[Plaintiff]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Commander Kurt: Know any cops or fire fighters? Politicians? Artists?

A job, when treated with passion, can be very hard on a relationship.

I don't care one way or the other - but if they're trying for "mature" and "serious" or whatever words they throw around to make these games sound more adult... then stress in a relationship can be a very real thing.

I just think it's hypocritical when the same forum goers who will belittle a rainbow and puppies poster want a happy ending relationship because gawd forbid you deprive them of their favorite NPC digital doll sex show.

So I back up people who suggest other ways of thinking.

Why do you insist on making these false assumptions about the reasons people engage in videogame romance?

It's like saying "Herpderp you only want Bioware to focus on combat because you're a weenie who always got beat up in middle school and you want to use videogames to live out your juvenile power fantasy, loser."

[Shadow Fox]

Actually in DAO it was far easier if you chose not to romance a character unless you were using a guide it was really easy to have the relationship fall into limbo via missed convos and wrong dialouge choices.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

David Gaider wrote...

The idea that one should be enticed to avoid optional content, with achievements or otherwise, verges on the absurd.

I think that's part of the reason why some people were suggesting actual alternate content instead of achievements.

I'd just as soon see achievements dropped, personally, if we're going to get them for going outside at night.

Hawke: ...uh, yay? Mother will be so proud.
Carver: What's next? Achievments for equipping pants?

[Josielyn]

Sorry, this discussion is way too much fun. If no achievements, how about an equippable item, like a chastity belt? Grants +2 magic but only works if you are not in a romance. Kindof like Maid Marian's underwear that had the lock on it in Robin Hood Men in Tights. Modders- where are you?

[Plaintiff]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The idea that one should be enticed to avoid optional content, with achievements or otherwise, verges on the absurd.

I think that's part of the reason why some people were suggesting actual alternate content instead of achievements.

I'd just as soon see achievements dropped, personally, if we're going to get them for going outside at night.

Hawke: ...uh, yay? Mother will be so proud.
Carver: What's next? Achievments for equipping pants?

I think people who forego romance content are already had alternate content, though. In the main plot, when Hawke's mother is killed, the role that would be played by an LI is filled by Aveline.

What other content should they get? Romance isn't required to access any of the sidequests. I'd argue that you can have perfectly full relationships with all the companions without romance.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 décembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[Direwolf0294]

If you don't romance a character you can instead build a friendship or rivalry with that character, that's the alternate content.

[The Night Haunter]

There is no benefit to achieving a romance (beyond the romance itself) so why would there be a benefit to not romancing (beyond avoiding the romance)?

[Janktrio]

I agree that there should be more options for players that don't romance anyone in-game. I've never romanced anyone in-game simply because I don't want to, but I still want to have a way to bond more deeply with the companions without having to resort to a romance. The romances do add some wonderful emotional bits to the game but players who don't romance anyone miss out on these scenes. I'm thinking that instead of romances, players can choose to become "Best Friends" with a companion. So instead of the relationship culminating with a sex-scene, like in a romance, we instead get to see our PC and companion spend a day or night just chilling together and enjoying each others' company. For example, if the player was given the option to become best friends with Isabela, she invites you to meet her in the Hanged Man where she buys a drink for you, you sit down together and have a conversation regarding the relationship (Isabela can thank you for being such a great friend or something along those lines), and then the game zooms out and fades to black as we see our PC and her chatting and laughing but without hearing what they're saying. This way players can become more emotionally attached with their companions without having to romance them. Something along these lines would be great to add to the game. Either you romance a companion or you become best friends.

I remember in DA:O the conversation with Morrigan where she asks you why you helped her with her quest and she thanks you for being her first and only friend. That conversation was amazing and I loved it, but it didn't really lead to anything afterwards. She finally really opens up to the PC and then never mentions being friends ever again except when you initiate dialogue with her, but that's just a repeated phrase to initiate conversations. Imagine if romances in the game worked the same way: someone opens up to you saying you are their one true love and then it's never mentioned again except in passing. That would suck, yes? So I think in DA:I players should get a chance to either romance a companion or become their best friend, some other way to become more emotionally bonded to a character in-game besides romance.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Plaintiff wrote...

I think people who forego romance content are already had alternate content, though. In the main plot, when Hawke's mother is killed, the role that would be played by an LI is filled by Aveline.

That's true. I believe that in another quest your sibling gets kidnapped if you don't have an LI (not sure what happens if sibling is dead. Aveline again? Eh, doesn't matter.)

I can't speak for the OP, but it sounds like what they want is additional cinematics and dialogue to 'make up for' what they're missing, which doesn't exactly make sense if they don't like what they're missing anyway (and how would they know that the alternate content would meet their standards?).

What other content should they get? Romance isn't required to access any of the sidequests. I'd argue that you can have perfectly full relationships with all the companions without romance.

Oh, I agree. I'm by no means advocating that there should be alternate content, and the vanilla friendships are ok as they are IMO.

Random ideas though?

I don't think it would need to be anything drastic. Something social, perhaps. Maybe everyone who isn't shacked up goes to the Hanged Man on sexy-night and actually gets to see a round of Wicked Grace? Varric's like...Mr Bachelor, but don't let Bianca know I said that.

[Commander Kurt]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Commander Kurt: Know any cops or fire fighters? Politicians? Artists?

I don't care one way or the other - but if they're trying for "mature" and "serious" or whatever words they throw around to make these games sound more adult... then stress in a relationship can be a very real thing.

I just think it's hypocritical when the same forum goers who will belittle a rainbow and puppies poster want a happy ending relationship because gawd forbid you deprive them of their favorite NPC digital doll sex show.

So I back up people who suggest other ways of thinking.

Friend, I run a small business with 40 employees, work 60-70 hours/week and earned about a nickel a month up until recently. Plus I have a 9 month old boy. I've heard of stress. Now, comparing my husband with the DA "boyfriends" I have to say that my RL relationship is nothing but bunnies and rainbows. That crap is messed up.

Once I had a happy ever after with Alistair. The other time he did the logical thing and dumped me for not beeing able to conceive. Anders I stabbed in the back and Fenris disappeared after sex. And this you call "healthy"? "Happy"? Introduce stress to the relationship, you say??

Really...

[The Spirit of Dance]

dunno maybe add some extra dialogue like "eh, There's no one waiting for me at home anyway." before the final battle. You could also develop a deeper friendship with your Mabari.

[Wynne]

someguy1231 wrote...

As someone who has never liked the "romances" in any of Bioware's games, I'd like the game to offer some reward to player characters who don't romance anyone throughout the game. It can be purely cosmetic, like a trophy/achievement, or it can affect the actual game.

Ooh, and while we're at it, let's give people rewards for not playing certain classes, and not playing one gender, and not getting certain achievements, and and and...

No. This thread is pointless. People should be rewarded for what they do, not for what they don't do. Actions, not omissions. Go ahead and don't romance anyone, but don't expect a reward anymore than I expect to get rewarded for not playing a dude.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I just think it's hypocritical when the same forum goers who will belittle a rainbow and puppies poster want a happy ending relationship because gawd forbid you deprive them of their favorite NPC digital doll sex show.

So I back up people who suggest other ways of thinking.

QFT

[Dean_the_Young]

Plaintiff wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The idea that one should be enticed to avoid optional content, with achievements or otherwise, verges on the absurd.

I think that's part of the reason why some people were suggesting actual alternate content instead of achievements.

I'd just as soon see achievements dropped, personally, if we're going to get them for going outside at night.

Hawke: ...uh, yay? Mother will be so proud.
Carver: What's next? Achievments for equipping pants?

I think people who forego romance content are already had alternate content, though. In the main plot, when Hawke's mother is killed, the role that would be played by an LI is filled by Aveline.

What other content should they get? Romance isn't required to access any of the sidequests. I'd argue that you can have perfectly full relationships with all the companions without romance.

I think it comes down to those big emotional capstone moments I mentioned in that big post a page or two ago that Bioware occassionally pulls, in which there's a LI culmination scene or... well, sometimes nothing when there could be a friend.

I'd say the best example would be the ME3 before-the-battle scenes, in which case there's no reason you could have a 'friends' scene as a default touching-moment. With scenes that serve a narrative/emotional role, I prefer the LI's to be alternative, not exclusive, means of conveying content.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

The benefit is not romancing anyone, duh.

[nomoredruggs]

Well, we get achievements for romancing, so they could add an achievement for remaining chaste/friendzoning all your companions.

[Emzamination]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Emzamination: And so what if he did? You want content because you have to live vicariously through a computer game?

Well since we're going the route of real world comparison...The lad is free to self-imagine his deitie of choice be it maker or old god has a cushy spot reserved for him in eternity for retaining his virginity in life. That is how people do it in the real world and it seems to be reward enough for them, so why should dragon age be any dfferent?

Also it would be more realistic if the achievement for completing a romance was in the shape of a sammich or a bottle of ale, don'tcha think?

[hexaligned]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

If you don't want to do romance, fine by me. I don't get why you should need a reward for it though.

Because some people find them cheesy and shallow, or just want to roleplay a chaste hero for whatever reason.

Wouldn't the reward be denying yourself the cheesy and shallow content?

This.  No other reward is needed.

[Fyurian2]

David Gaider wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
That is the lack of punishment which is different from reward. The presence of reward and the absense of punishment have been observed to stimulate different neurons in mammalian brains.

I don't really care what they stimulate. The idea that one should be enticed to avoid optional content, with achievements or otherwise, verges on the absurd. I don't decide what ahievements are created, but if someone proposed that in a meeting ("hey, let's create achievements for people who deliberately avoid parts of the game!") I would stare at them as if they'd gone mad.

I must confess that I enjoy the romances, because they're part of the game and are a part of character development for both PC and party members.
However, when a game is rewarding you with an achievement for romancing a character, or all characters, then I would say that it's really just as bad as rewarding for not romancing anyone.

As you say, you're not responsible for what achievements are put into the game, but the whole use of achievements for "achieving" things that happen anyway (complete Act 1, spoke with "this person" that you have no choice but to speak to) aren't achievements.
Romancing someone, even just one companion, isn't exactly noteworthy. It's not an achievement.

For rewarding romances with achievements, it really should only be a single achievement, for romancing all possible romance options, and for it to require multiple playthroughs, one for every romance option.
The alternative reward "Stayed Celibate/Just Friends" could be offered for not romancing anyone, and only obtained after not romancing everyone across multiple playthroughs.

My favourite achievement from ME3 was for not cheating on my ME1 love interest and rekindling the relationship. That required cutting yourself off from content in ME2.
Yes, you weren't involved in ME1-3 or their achievement rewards, but it's a precedent for Bioware games, and one more that rewards dedication to the series and characters within the games.

[gosimmons]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

If you don't romance a character you can instead build a friendship or rivalry with that character, that's the alternate content.

Seconded. Bromance is the reward.