82 réponses à ce sujet

[MichaelStuart]

Always liked those books.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Nizaris1 wrote...

[snip]

Most FPS are RPGs, like halo you role-play as Master Chief, in Unreal 2 you play as John Dalton

Now your just arguing semantics dude. 

Dragon Age is not that kind of game, regardless of whatever arbitrary title you want to file it under.  It has loot and customization systems, leveling, choice-imact, etc.  Those are the hallmark ingredients of the industries standard definition of an rpg.  What you are describing is what the industry refers to as action games.  Call it something different if you like, that doesn't change what they are. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 14 décembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Dude, you're defining the interpretation of a word, thats exactly what semantics is. 

Dude.

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 14 décembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

...okay?

[Doctoglethorpe]

So its not an fps?  I don't think that was ever in question. 

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Just ignore him Nizaris, I dont think has anything constructive to add to the thread other than to say if it doesnt fit his stubborn preconcieved notions of what an RPG should be then it is an action game.

You are welcome to join the conversation Doctor but you are going to have to do better than "because it is a staple of the RPG genre" without telling us why.

[Althix]

why? well most of rpg on pc had D&D rules in it's base. And in D&D rules you level your character and by that you making him stronger. From BG to DA:O and DA2 (if we are talking about BW games) leveling system were present.

there is no reason for examples from such settings as sword and sorcery, because for most people rpg as computer game is about leveling your character one way or another.

[Fast Jimmy]

I would, personally, like to see the level up mechanic revamped to be a little more logical.

For instance, in the DA games, a warrior starting out has a Strength of 18 and is a force to be reckoned with. Yet by Level 20, this 18 Strength would be a joke, likely what a mage would have at that point. The Attributes should be locked at character creation, not arbitrarily doubled/tripled/quadrupled.

If they were to combine DA:O, Skyrim and FO:NV's level up schemes, I think it would be the best. A set level of attributes at character creation (like Strength/Dexterity/Intelligence, like FO:NV), as XP is gained, it results in a level up where points can be applied to a skill/branch (like in DA) and a Perk every level, that can let you further differentiate your skills (like Skyrim).

For instance, you could have a Warrior with the following stats starting out:
(on a scale 1-20, with 75 available points to assign)

Strength: 18
Dexterity:13
Willpower: 7
(no Magic, that's an entirely one-sided attribute, I'll just roll it into...) Intelligence: 10
Cunning:11
Constitution: 16

This would make a character build for a hearty, strong warrior that's not too nerfed in other attributes (although the 7 Willpower may affect some saves or magic attacks for him).

Upon level up, he can put still points in various options, such as non-combat skills like Persuasion or Lockpicking, or combat trees such as Sword and Shield.

Similarly, he also gets one Perk per level. Unlike the Perks in FO:NV, which only happen every three levels and which convey a set of special powers or attributes, the Perks would be more in the vein of Skyrim, where it can help flesh out the existing skills. For instance, in Skyrim, you could pump your lockpick skill up to 100, but unless you spent the corresponding Perk on the skill, you couldn't unlock master locks, regardless of how high that skill was.

The Perks would work similar to that - you could pump points into the Sword and Shield tree, but you wouldn't be able to unlock the move "Shield Bash" unless you used a Perk. Similarly, you couldn't have Shield Bash also cause stunning to enemies unless you used another Perk in the Sword and Shield tree. Of course, that means you couldn't use that level-up's Perk on something else, like the Persuasion branch, which would allow you to get better prices on goods. Etc.,etc.




A good leveling up system is one of my favorite parts of an RPG. A game like Skyrim, which is a Story-Lite game, is balanced a little bit for me by its unique leveling system. I never liked TES way of "let a mudcrab hit for for an hour gives me a maxed out armor skill" which is continued in Skyrim, but its use of the Perk system to customize a character was really well done.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Nizaris1 wrote...

yeah, it is not FPS, it is RPAG...what is the problem?

Idk what the problem is now.  I never called it an fps. 

But now your calling it "role playing action game"  when its technically an action roleplaying game.  Yes theres a difference, once again semantics debate. 

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Just
ignore him Nizaris, I dont think has anything constructive to add to
the thread other than to say if it doesnt fit his stubborn preconcieved
notions of what an RPG should be then it is an action game.

You
are welcome to join the conversation Doctor but you are going to have to
do better than "because it is a staple of the RPG genre" without
telling us why.

Nice, arrogance is fun.

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Isn't random dice roll and item based stats even less realistic though? I thought that was what you were going for.

[Steppenwolf]

Why would anyone want game genres to become homogenous? So action games and FPS games have a progression system without leveling. So what? Max Payne games have people flying through the air in slow motion before downing 3 bottles of pain killers to heal themselves. Taking away leveling up doesn't magically make video games more realistic. And why do video games need to be more realistic? I don't play them for a real-world experience and if you're on the BSN then you obviously don't either. No games are 100% realistic, especially not action games and shooters. I can kill people in COD by shooting a small knife at their legs. I can survive plain crashes, train derailments, barrages of bullets, etc in Uncharted. If video games were 100% realistic they would be boring because one bullet to the torso would be enough to put you down and one bullet to the leg would be enough to hinder your movement.

[Steppenwolf]

So you want all video games to match a realism standard that you define? And if it isn't actual realism then it isn't realism. Science-fiction is, by default, not realistic. Warp speed as a concept is not realistic because it doesn't exist in the real world.

[philippe willaume]

personally I am more in flavour on attribute working like the talents in DA.
For that we need classes to be defined by skill and perks/talent that give the class the flavour. alternatively it can be done by have a fixed number of creation point to spend in the class attribute and the rest being free.


the idea is instead of spending points in attribute, you spend points in talents preks depending of those attributes.

so for example, we could have
Blocking depending of strength (increase base defence statistic and give damage reduction based on the tool used)
Dogging depending of dexterity (increase base defence statistic and reduce the % of movement limitation due to the opponent based on the armour worn)
Deflection depending of cunning (increase base defence statistic and increase the % of counter/riposte based on the weapon or weapon used)

if you want to play a tank you can spend only in "strength" and take blocking 3 times
if want to play a more versatile warrior you can spend one in each.

if you want to play a mêlée rogue/mage spend one in dodging and deflection and the last in either of those.

if you want to play a missile rogue/mage or just spend 3 in dogging

[Doctoglethorpe]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would anyone want game genres to
become homogenous? So action games and FPS games have a progression
system without leveling. So what? Max Payne games have people flying
through the air in slow motion before downing 3 bottles of pain killers
to heal themselves. Taking away leveling up doesn't magically make video
games more realistic. And why do video games need to be more
realistic? I don't play them for a real-world experience and if you're
on the BSN then you obviously don't either. No games are 100% realistic,
especially not action games and shooters. I can kill people in COD by
shooting a small knife at their legs. I can survive plain crashes, train
derailments, barrages of bullets, etc in Uncharted. If video games were
100% realistic they would be boring because one bullet to the torso
would be enough to put you down and one bullet to the leg would be
enough to hinder your movement.

Nizaris1 wrote...

realistic in games is not realistic in life

it is like science fiction

science fiction is a fiction that can be explained via science, even it is not scientific

for example, warp speed of space craft...that is not scientific, it is magic, but it can be explained with science...

you can give all the theories bull crap to justify warp speed but it is still need

- imaginary engine
- imaginary power source
- imaginary physic/mechanic

warp speed is magic

[Steppenwolf]

Exactly. It makes no sense. It's not a suggestion because it demands access to Nizaris' mind to decide what's realistic in video games, real life or her idea of either. You can't say "make the games more realistic" then say "realistic in games is not realistic in real life" and expect anyone to know what that means. Real life is the parameter of realistic. If something can't happen in real life then it isn't realistic. Calling for some form of realism relegated to video game logic and not bothering to define what that could even mean is... nonsensical.