269 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

LinksOcarina wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The answer to this specific OP is: they decided not to include a sociopathic apathetic a-hole answer.

And if Shepard is a sociopathic, apathetic, shoot-Mordin-in-the-back-and-lie-to-Wrex, watch-Samara-off-herself-and-murder-her-daughter, leave-David-in-Project-Overlord, let-the-Zorya-factory-workers-burn, exterminate-three-races-before-now-and-shrug-them-off A-hole?

I guess Walking Warcrime Shepard has a soft spot for asari. 

Although why the hell you would do any of that is just kind of distrubing anyway.

I have three Shepards. One cured the Genophage, but lost Legion in the collector base and ended up siding with the Quarians (Legion's replacement is everything the Catalyst warns about). My second Shepard had to stop the cure to prevent Wreav from leading a second Rebellion, but made peace on Rannoch. "Perfect" playthroughs are boring IMO, and I will never let "paragon" or "renegade" effect how I shape a character. I've no intention of playing "Warcrime Shepard," but Bioware still put him in there.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[moater boat]

Because ME3 was not a role playing game.

[CronoDragoon]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
And if Shepard is a sociopathic, apathetic, shoot-Mordin-in-the-back-and-lie-to-Wrex, watch-Samara-off-herself-and-murder-her-daughter, leave-David-in-Project-Overlord, let-the-Zorya-factory-workers-burn, exterminate-three-races-before-now-and-shrug-them-off A-hole?

Where in any of those choices were you able to laugh about it afterwards?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:13 .

[DeinonSlayer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
And if Shepard is a sociopathic, apathetic, shoot-Mordin-in-the-back-and-lie-to-Wrex, watch-Samara-off-herself-and-murder-her-daughter, leave-David-in-Project-Overlord, let-the-Zorya-factory-workers-burn, exterminate-three-races-before-now-and-shrug-them-off A-hole?

Where in any of those choices were you able to laugh about it afterwards?

The point isn't laughter. Shepard doesn't bat an eye about personally exterminating up to three species before Thessia. He (automatically) whines to Victus that Earth has it worse, and thus he should abandon his own burning homeworld. And yet the Asari homeworld gets attacked, and THAT gets Shepard riled up and indignant. Apologizing to Tevos isn't in character for every Shepard, yet every Shepard does it. Every Shepard gets mad at Joker - the best you can do is not talk to him.

[Silcron]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
And if Shepard is a sociopathic, apathetic, shoot-Mordin-in-the-back-and-lie-to-Wrex, watch-Samara-off-herself-and-murder-her-daughter, leave-David-in-Project-Overlord, let-the-Zorya-factory-workers-burn, exterminate-three-races-before-now-and-shrug-them-off A-hole?

Where in any of those choices were you able to laugh about it afterwards?

The point isn't laughter. Shepard doesn't bat an eye about personally exterminating up to three species before Thessia. He (automatically) whines to Victus that Earth has it worse, and thus he should abandon his own burning homeworld. And yet the Asari homeworld gets attacked, and THAT gets Shepard riled up and indignant. Apologizing to Tevos isn't in character for every Shepard, yet every Shepard does it. Every Shepard gets mad at Joker - the best you can do is not talk to him.

No matter what you choose all origins for shepard were full of asari, he's been brainwashed by asari several times (just go back to ME1 and check how many times he embraces eternity, then add the optional ones) Not to mention since he saw the all mighty lord on Omega (s)he's Aria's b'tch.

Of course the asari human puppet would be mad about anything against asari

(note: this is a joke. And it comes from a Liaramancer)

[CronoDragoon]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
The point isn't laughter. Shepard doesn't bat an eye about personally exterminating up to three species before Thessia. He (automatically) whines to Victus that Earth has it worse, and thus he should abandon his own burning homeworld. And yet the Asari homeworld gets attacked, and THAT gets Shepard riled up and indignant. Apologizing to Tevos isn't in character for every Shepard, yet every Shepard does it. Every Shepard gets mad at Joker - the best you can do is not talk to him.

That was the point of the OP.

As for everything else, you realize he isn't just mad about Thessia right? Cerberus beat him and made off with the VI. In effect he failed the universe. Him snapping at Joker, and Joker's subsequent comments about Shepard's stress level and general mental health, demonstrate this.

[DeinonSlayer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

That was the point of the OP.

As for everything else, you realize he isn't just mad about Thessia right? Cerberus beat him and made off with the VI. In effect he failed the universe. Him snapping at Joker, and Joker's subsequent comments about Shepard's stress level and general mental health, demonstrate this.

I don't care about the joke as much - I'd snap at Joker, but I can respect that others wouldn't. My problem is the part where he grovels to Tevos and blames himself for the one genocide in the game that he DOESN'T perpetrate after (potentially) personally causing three others and shrugging them off each time.

[CronoDragoon]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

That was the point of the OP.

As for everything else, you realize he isn't just mad about Thessia right? Cerberus beat him and made off with the VI. In effect he failed the universe. Him snapping at Joker, and Joker's subsequent comments about Shepard's stress level and general mental health, demonstrate this.

I don't care about the joke as much - I'd snap at Joker, but I can respect that others wouldn't. My problem is the part where he grovels to Tevos and blames himself for the one genocide in the game that he DOESN'T perpetrate after (potentially) personally causing three others and shrugging them off each time.

He shrugs them off because they were conscious decisions he deemed necessary - in effect victories. Thessia was a failure, which makes it philosophically a completely different scenario.

[DeinonSlayer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

He shrugs them off because they were conscious decisions he deemed necessary - in effect victories. Thessia was a failure, which makes it philosophically a completely different scenario.

Right. The cutscene "victory" kicked in, Kai Leng sent that juvenile troll email, and then Shepard was a whiney douche...

As others have said, "I wasn't crushed by Thessia, I was pissed." Should have been able to roleplay accordingly - perhaps as little as three new lines on a separate dialogue path would have resolved this. That's all I'm saying. Options. Plot would have gone the exact same direction, just with a slightly different mood.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:45 .

[LinksOcarina]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The answer to this specific OP is: they decided not to include a sociopathic apathetic a-hole answer.

And if Shepard is a sociopathic, apathetic, shoot-Mordin-in-the-back-and-lie-to-Wrex, watch-Samara-off-herself-and-murder-her-daughter, leave-David-in-Project-Overlord, let-the-Zorya-factory-workers-burn, exterminate-three-races-before-now-and-shrug-them-off A-hole?

I guess Walking Warcrime Shepard has a soft spot for asari. 

Although why the hell you would do any of that is just kind of distrubing anyway.

I have three Shepards. One cured the Genophage, but lost Legion in the collector base and ended up siding with the Quarians (Legion's replacement is everything the Catalyst warns about). My second Shepard had to stop the cure to prevent Wreav from leading a second Rebellion, but made peace on Rannoch. "Perfect" playthroughs are boring IMO, and I will never let "paragon" or "renegade" effect how I shape a character. I've no intention of playing "Warcrime Shepard," but Bioware still put him in there.

I guess I was spoiled by the sacrifice Mordin made, and the fact that Tali and Legion could work together in my main playthrough.

Other playthroughs won't be so lucky, but again the devil incarnate Shepard is something that logically is doing the reapers job for them, so why its even included makes no sense in my head. 

[Bill Casey]

The whole point of the scene is to show that Shepard is breaking down mentally...
He's under extreme stress, he's racked with guilt, he's suffering an identity crisis where he's not sure if he's the real Shepard, he's not sleeping well, he just lost the key to the Crucible to Cerberus, and the Reapers stopped by and curb stomped yet another planet...

His mental state is weakening...
Joker says his stress levels are off the charts and Anderson is worried about Shepard...
This is important to the plot...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 décembre 2012 - 09:51 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Bill Casey wrote...

The whole point of the scene is to show that Shepard is breaking down mentally...
He's under extreme stress, he's racked with guilt, he's suffering an identity crisis where he's not sure if he's the real Shepard, he's not sleeping well, he just lost the key to the Crucible to Cerberus, and the Reapers stopped by and curb stomped yet another planet...

His mental state is weakening...
Joker says his stress levels are off the charts and Anderson is worried about Shepard...
This is important to the plot...

weakening is a bit off ... challenged is more fitting.

now is the question .. does shepard crack and break together or gets he/she back on track.

the problem is not that shepard shows some wear and tear - its how shepard shows it ...


there are sheps out there, who dont giva a damn about thessia - they are just pissed, that leng got away.
at least, shep gets the pep talk he/she needs and the identity crisis gets finished by the li.

sure its a critical point in the plot but the implementatin was clumsy. just like the dreams and the implied ptsd - who was the professional advisor for this stuff? .. the dreams do not make sense .. and a (stress) depression has other warning signs. if you want to write stuff like this into your story, you have to do deep research.

[StayFrosty05]

Thus why my Shep doesn't approach Joker straight after Thessia, neither does he go to Javiks quarters (Liara/Javik confrontation), neither does he talk to Aethyta...I don't like having to make sure I avoid these situations....but it's all I have to try and keep some integrity in my Shep RP.

[Barquiel]

Shepard fails to get the Catalyst, the last hope of civilization in the entire Galaxy. At the moment she doesn't know where Kai Leng went or how to find him. I think it's pretty easy to see how Shep (renegade or paragon, doesn't matter) would feel absolutely hopeless in that situation...and then Joker makes a racist joke about the people who just died in vain buying Shepard some time. No where in these scenes is Shepard crying about Thessia. She even
tries to comfort Liara ("the asari are not lost", "we'll rebuild thessia", etc.). Shepard is simply upset she/he lost the Catalyst. ""It's my job to be prepared--no matter what"

And ME1 had a similar scene as well.

Modifié par Barquiel, 13 décembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[DeinonSlayer]

"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give The Shepard lemons, do you know who I am?! I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna have my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!!!"

[Massa FX]

Not sure if neutrality would be fitting. Shepard is angry and takes it out on Joker. A human moment. Everyone gets angry in RL. That's how I saw the situation. Normally, Shepard would not have lashed out.

[Teddie Sage]

Massa FX wrote...

Not sure if neutrality would be fitting. Shepard is angry and takes it out on Joker. A human moment. Everyone gets angry in RL. That's how I saw the situation. Normally, Shepard would not have lashed out.

I don't think you get what OP meant. It felt out of character because Shepard wasn't belonging to him/her any longer. It wasn't his/her character's, it belonged to the writers. They removed his immersion.

[LinksOcarina]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Not sure if neutrality would be fitting. Shepard is angry and takes it out on Joker. A human moment. Everyone gets angry in RL. That's how I saw the situation. Normally, Shepard would not have lashed out.

I don't think you get what OP meant. It felt out of character because Shepard wasn't belonging to him/her any longer. It wasn't his/her character's, it belonged to the writers. They removed his immersion.

But heres the problem, the writers have done this numerous times before in all three games.

Why is this so different? Because it's a little more obvious? Or is it something else? 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 13 décembre 2012 - 10:46 .

[thearbiter1337]

I understand why Shep felt like he wanted to throw Joker out the airlock

After getting his ass handed by TIM many times during Thessia TIM just crossed it when he took the Prothy VI so Shep started to think it was his fault that due to his inability to find the Catalyst so he just snapped

[Dr_Extrem]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Not sure if neutrality would be fitting. Shepard is angry and takes it out on Joker. A human moment. Everyone gets angry in RL. That's how I saw the situation. Normally, Shepard would not have lashed out.

I don't think you get what OP meant. It felt out of character because Shepard wasn't belonging to him/her any longer. It wasn't his/her character's, it belonged to the writers. They removed his immersion.

thats the point ..

the writers railroaded shepard into a certain mental direction.

sure shep is pissed .. but after horizon, he/she starts to feel better ... sometimes you need to vent ... but the player should decide how to vent.

[archangel1996]

ddd

Modifié par archangel1996, 13 décembre 2012 - 11:17 .

[Steelcan]

thearbiter1337 wrote...

I understand why Shep felt like he wanted to throw Joker out the airlock

After getting his ass handed by TIM many times during Thessia TIM just crossed it when he took the Prothy VI so Shep started to think it was his fault that due to his inability to find the Catalyst so he just snapped

But the option to just shrug it off should have existed.

[xAmilli0n]

There were definitely times when I wished I could have my Shepard react in a different way.

I think part of this issue is finding the right balance when using a 'blank slate' character. Keeping it so that player feels they are in control, while still progressing the character how the writers would like can be tricky (I imagine).

[chemiclord]

xAmilli0n wrote...

There were definitely times when I wished I could have my Shepard react in a different way.

I think part of this issue is finding the right balance when using a 'blank slate' character. Keeping it so that player feels they are in control, while still progressing the character how the writers would like can be tricky (I imagine).

Well, ME1 managed that by having Shepard be an emotionless drone.  He was like a cardboard cut out compared to the other characters in the game.

I get that they wanted to give Shepard more "life", but it was probably one of those things they should have let be rather than try to tweak.