269 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

o Ventus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

No you can't, even keeping the CB isn't presented as having anything to do with human dominance(that's TIM's intention not Shepard's).

Human nationalism is different than human supremacy. Which is it? Never in any of the 3 games is Shepard ever a human supremacist, but in at least 2 of the 3 games Shepard CAN be a human nationalist.

And in the third game it was wholly inaprorpirate to put that first. At least from my perspective.

But this does go back to what is being told here, plot, or story. It was a plot decision to make that moment like that, and it backfired. Simple as that really. 

[Sebby]

o Ventus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

No you can't, even keeping the CB isn't presented as having anything to do with human dominance(that's TIM's intention not Shepard's).

Human nationalism is different than human supremacy. Which is it? Never in any of the 3 games is Shepard ever a human supremacist, but in at least 2 of the 3 games Shepard CAN be a human nationalist.

ME1's human nationalism WAS about achieving dominance. It was about humanity taking control and saving the aliens form themselves(human "white man's burden" in essence).

There's absolutely nothing in 2 or 3 that involve nationalism or dominance. Paragon and Renegade is simply presented as different means to the same end. Shepard can't even claim to want to see the heretics destroyed in Legion's LM because of not wanting to see a stronger unified Geth.

[o Ventus]

J. Reezy wrote...

It probably has more to do with trying to justify Shepard's direction in Mass Effect 3 than not understanding the freedom provided by Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2.

 

Which is why the paragon option should remain as it is, while the renegade decision should be at least a more cordial disagreement with Joker, if not semi-agreeing with him. As is, both options are the same, barring a shift in tone of the words spoken.

[LinksOcarina]

o Ventus wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

It probably has more to do with trying to justify Shepard's direction in Mass Effect 3 than not understanding the freedom provided by Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2.

 

Which is why the paragon option should remain as it is, while the renegade decision should be at least a more cordial disagreement with Joker, if not semi-agreeing with him. As is, both options are the same, barring a shift in tone of the words spoken.

Like most dialouge in the Mass Effect series?

[o Ventus]

Seboist wrote...

ME1's human nationalism WAS about achieving dominance. It was about humanity taking control and saving the aliens form themselves(human "white man's burden" in essence).

Have you actually played ME1?

There's absolutely nothing in 2 or 3 that involve nationalism or dominance. Paragon and Renegade is simply presented as different means to the same end. Shepard can't even claim to want to see the heretics destroyed in Legion's LM because of not wanting to see a stronger unified Geth.

What does this have to do with humans, let alone human nationalism? Not having a unified geth would work in EVERYONE'S favor, it isn't bound to humanity.

[o Ventus]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Like most dialouge in the Mass Effect series?

If by "most" you mean in ME1 and 3, then sure. Most. It wasn't prevalent in ME2.

[LinksOcarina]

o Ventus wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Like most dialouge in the Mass Effect series?

If by "most" you mean in ME1 and 3, then sure. Most. It wasn't prevalent in ME2.

No, but like all three games there were points where the reaction made in the dialogue didn't really matter much. 

In this case, I feel it is the same way because the two responses are distinct enough regarding the previous events told in the story, at least from my perspective. 

[Steelcan]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

yet the epilogue shows otherwise ... there are still asari fighting and it takes decades to harvest an entire homeworld. 

So?  There's a few asari left, big deal.  That doesn't mean they are doing anything, they are a last breath before the planet is fully dead.

[KiwiQuiche]

Oh man I was mad after Thessia since my xenophobic Renegade had to go all "BAWWWW" over the Asari. Oh hell no she wouldn't, she despises aliens and the Asari's actions prove to her they deserve a good beating which the Reapers are giving them. No way she would have apologized to the councilor or thrown a wobbly over Thessia falling. She felt like it was all their fault and Joker was right; they need to have less hookers and dancers and more warriors.

But lolnope we get angst everywhere. Go Bioware. How you managed to go from ME1 to ME3 in terms of dialogue choice and think it's a great idea I'll never know.

"Do you take fun in committing genocide?"
"Depends on the specie, Turian."

"Bet they are wishing they had less dancers and more commandos."
"OMFG JOKER SDAJKSDFJK MAH FEELZ"

[spirosz]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

"Do you take fun in committing genocide?"
"Depends on the specie, Turian."

"Bet they are wishing they had less dancers and more commandos."
"OMFG JOKER SDAJKSDFJK MAH FEELZ"

Why Bioware.

[Maxster_]

spirosz wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

"Do you take fun in committing genocide?"
"Depends on the specie, Turian."

"Bet they are wishing they had less dancers and more commandos."
"OMFG JOKER SDAJKSDFJK MAH FEELZ"

Why Bioware.

Artistic integrity.
I know, i know.

Actually it is more like changing old boring target audience from ME1-DAO times, into new shining target audience.
Look how brilliantly it worked.

[4stringwizard]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Oh man I was mad after Thessia since my xenophobic Renegade had to go all "BAWWWW" over the Asari. Oh hell no she wouldn't, she despises aliens and the Asari's actions prove to her they deserve a good beating which the Reapers are giving them. No way she would have apologized to the councilor or thrown a wobbly over Thessia falling. She felt like it was all their fault and Joker was right; they need to have less hookers and dancers and more warriors.

But lolnope we get angst everywhere. Go Bioware. How you managed to go from ME1 to ME3 in terms of dialogue choice and think it's a great idea I'll never know.

"Do you take fun in committing genocide?"
"Depends on the specie, Turian."

"Bet they are wishing they had less dancers and more commandos."
"OMFG JOKER SDAJKSDFJK MAH FEELZ"

I'll bet it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Liara and the Asari being the favorites of the writing staff....

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

well .. thessia is fighting as well .. the problem is, that thessia consists of city states and every city has its own defense force. they have no real united military.

in mass effect 1, the codex (military doctrine) states, that only 1% of all humans serve in the military and that this is the lowest rate among all citadel species.

there are potentially more asari soldiers out there, than human. sadly, asari are mostly commandos, who are not very usefull in a stand up fight. but they are perfect partisan fighters.

thessia is not doomed ... at least not any more than palavan or earth or any other settlement. earth is fighting a partisan war against the reapers .. the turians are just buying time with the lifes of their soldiers. its pointless resistance.

"We've lost contact with Thessia, the planet has gone dark"

5min later I'm talking to someone on Earth....

And you have a damned quantum entanglement communicator with a direct point-to-point link to Earth. They're pretty much brand new by the time of ME2, and I'm fairly sure that Thessia hadn't invested in any.

Thessia will survive, better than Earth and Palaven. At least in Destroy. In Control, I can fix everything.

[CronoDragoon]

Barquiel wrote...

And ME1 had a similar scene as well.

Yeah, how dare my Shepard be frustrated about being grounded! My Shepard would have been all "I got this no worries!" So OOC.

Also love how people are throwing around that ME3 wasn't a "true role-playing game." Um, obviously? Neither is Mass Effect 1 or 2.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

How dare my Shepard doesn't grab Miranda's ass and then molest her!

This isn't real life, there can never be a "true" role-playing game. That would be impossible, everything is scripted. If you want to do that stuff, then go walk outside and take a dump on your lawn. You nerds...

[CronoDragoon]

The "true role-playing" finger-pointing can go a long way back. Dragon Age fans can accuse Mass Effect of not being a true RPG, Baldur's Gate fans can accuse DA of not being a true RPG, aaaall the way back to the table-top nerds laughing at us from underneath their hoods.

[Maxster_]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The "true role-playing" finger-pointing can go a long way back. Dragon Age fans can accuse Mass Effect of not being a true RPG, Baldur's Gate fans can accuse DA of not being a true RPG, aaaall the way back to the table-top nerds laughing at us from underneath their hoods.

What a pathetic excuse for autodialogue and lazyness.
But no surprise there.

[CronoDragoon]

Maxster_ wrote...
What a pathetic excuse for autodialogue and lazyness.
But no surprise there.

No explanation or supporting arguments for your aggressive conclusion. Big surprise. Also, "laziness."

Edit: Auto-dialogue doesn't need an "excuse." Like the streamlining of the gameplay in ME2, it was believed that it would strengthen the game despite lessening the customization granted to the player. Being more of an RPG doesn't equate to a better game.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 14 décembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[Maxster_]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
What a pathetic excuse for autodialogue and lazyness.
But no surprise there.

No explanation or supporting arguments for your aggressive conclusion. Big surprise. Also, "laziness."

And what explanations or supporting arguments you need? That ME3 have auto-dialogue? That roleplay adds to replay value(not in case of ME3, it is garbage for a lot more reasons than lack of rp)? That auto-dialogue is opposite of roleplay?
Or some other obvious things?

Edit: Auto-dialogue doesn't need an "excuse."

But somehow, you made just that. Strange.

Like the streamlining of the gameplay in ME2, it was believed that it would strengthen the game despite lessening the customization granted to the player.

So, now role playing equated rpg mechanics by you. In discussion about ME3 auto-dialogue.
And this stated as an achievement, when it is clearly not. You know, Role Playing Game, by definition related to playing role, and ME3 is far less than ME2 or ME1 in that aspect.

Being more of an RPG doesn't equate to a better game.

Of course.
As being less an RPG doesn't equate to a better game.
And ME3 fails at both.
It is far less than ME2 or ME1 as rpg, and less than gears of war as shooter. But this is irrelevant, because ME3 was advertised as being RPG.

[Barquiel]

Steelcan wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

yet the epilogue shows otherwise ... there are still asari fighting and it takes decades to harvest an entire homeworld. 

So?  There's a few asari left, big deal.  That doesn't mean they are doing anything, they are a last breath before the planet is fully dead.

Stop making up BS. The codex, planet descriptions, the epilogue, Liara's dialogue...even the number of casualties mentioned in the leaked script (400 million death asari on Thessia mean 5,1 billion asari are still alive at the end of the war) and the multiplayer lore tell you that there is a resistance on Thessia ...and that there are still billions of asari alive.

Many people complained that Shepard was an emotional brick in ME2 (especially when it came to the lazarus project). ME1 had the locker room scene and ME3 has Thessia. It shows Shepard's exhaustion and frustration, the situation in the whole galaxy is pretty much hopeless and it proves that Shep is not a tireless automaton. Again: Shepard has just failed to get the Catalyst, the last hope of civilization in the entire Galaxy. So Shepard is obviously stressed, Joker made a tasteless joke, Joker and Shepard snapped at each other, Joker admits that he's watching over Shepard, you apologize (or not). The whole episode just shows that Shep is not the flawless hero, but only a human. It doesn't even have much to do with Thessia. No where in these scenes is Shepard "crying" about Thessia.

Modifié par Barquiel, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:23 .

[EnvyTB075]

Nightwriter wrote...

Shepard felt personally accountable for Thessia

Your shepard perhaps, mine not so much.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Because Bioware has forgotten how to develop a story without inserting plotholes & making it contrived. Because Bioware mutated ME into a TPS. & Because Bioware doesn't know how to write dialogue properly anymore...

[KiwiQuiche]

Well the asari can breed with anything regardless, they're like fungus. So even if only one survives it can breed back the population.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 14 décembre 2012 - 07:08 .