27 réponses à ce sujet

[BrodbeckChris]

During the last 3-4 weeks I had the chance to replay DA:O and DA2 and really got hyped for DA3.

I looked at all the available info about DA3 and stumbled across the PAX panel from back in April.

The thing that really stud out to me was the new concept/idea for follower equipment.

There's a pretty large thread on this already on the DA2 section of the forum , I just had the impression that
this topic has gone off the radar a little here on the DA3 section of the board.

I was really impressed by the idea and it is, in my opinion, a perfect and clever compromise between character specific design and customization. So if you don't mind I'll just post the section of the Pax panel, as well as David Gaiders blog post on that topic.



PAX panel section http://youtu.be/OZhTbhUpixY?t=6m5s

David Gaider blog post blog.bioware.com/2012/04/13/dacustomization/


I just thought this topic was more then worthy of beeing discussed more, and maybe thereby encourage the dev team to make it happen for DA3.

If you believe this topic has been talked about enough, maybe the DA2 thread could be moved over to the DA3 section?

DA2 board thread social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/11368039

Modifié par Brodbeck, 13 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[Saibh]

I worry that resource management will lead to there being very few armor sets in the game, period. I guess that's not too bad, and definitely an improvement over DAII, but still.

If that's not what it means, I cannot think of a single downside to this proposed idea. It's very cool.

[BrodbeckChris]

I'm also curious how this is technically possible. You'd have to assign multiple meshes and textures to one single item, so the game can then assign the propper model to the character wearing the armor piece.

Or maybe create a different file for every piece for every character? For example chestpiece1_follower1, chestpiece1_follower2, chestpiece2_follower1, etc

Thats one mayor task, and if the developers could make every single piece for every partymember unique in appearence, that would be fantastic!

Even if time is short, and you would get the same model for different armor pieces, maybe a certain helm would look the same on characters 2 and 5, if something like method 2 was used, you can be sure that the modding community would add alot of variety to the equipment pieces.

So yeah, there's absolutely no downside to this, its a great idea. Well just have to wait and see if its possible to implement I guess.

Modifié par Brodbeck, 13 décembre 2012 - 10:57 .

[Pelle6666]

I like the idea to switch out parts of the armor and still keep the over all look. This will be a cool feature!

[DarkSpiral]

I was under the impression that follower customization was confirmed. I suppose I must have jumped the gun a bit.

Still seems awfully likely, though, seeing as that was one of the top 5 issues people had with the game. It *always* got mentioned.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Brodbeck wrote...

I'm also curious how this is technically possible. You'd have to assign multiple meshes and textures to one single item, so the game can then assign the propper model to the character wearing the armor piece.

Or maybe create a different file for every piece for every character? For example chestpiece1_follower1, chestpiece1_follower2, chestpiece2_follower1, etc

Thats one mayor task, and if the developers could make every single piece for every partymember unique in appearence, that would be fantastic!

Even if time is short, and you would get the same model for different armor pieces, maybe a certain helm would look the same on characters 2 and 5, if something like method 2 was used, you can be sure that the modding community would add alot of variety to the equipment pieces.

So yeah, there's absolutely no downside to this, its a great idea. Well just have to wait and see if its possible to implement I guess.

One way I could see it happening is via reskins and mix-and-matching armor subcomponents. Give each companion their own unique suit of basic armor, and have new armor sets attach components that are unneffected by the character's body type - things like shoulder pauldrons, helmets, spikes, buckles, etc. don't really need to be re-modeled for each character, just rescaled, but they still have a major impact on the character's overall appearance. Skyrim was also able to pull of a bodyweight slider that effected a character's appearance in armor, so the technology exists to have a single armor model conform itself to multiple body types.

With the reintroduction of companion armor choices, I wonder if fatigue will come back. I didn't miss it in DA2, it always seemed redundant for sustained spells to have both a mana penalty and a fatigue penalty, but there should be some sort of drawback if you decide to put your mage in heavy armor.

[Plaintiff]

It looks like a great system, and I really, really hope it works out.

[Serillen]

Saibh wrote...

I worry that resource management will lead to there being very few armor sets in the game, period. I guess that's not too bad, and definitely an improvement over DAII, but still.

If that's not what it means, I cannot think of a single downside to this proposed idea. It's very cool.

I Don't think it can get much worse than DA:O as far as armor variety. There were 2 types of robes, 3 slightly different leather styles that were nearly indistinguishable from each other, and I can only think of 1 heavy armor style. There were more medium and massive armor styles, but even then there wasnt a huge amount of variety.

[Saibh]

Serillen wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I worry that resource management will lead to there being very few armor sets in the game, period. I guess that's not too bad, and definitely an improvement over DAII, but still.

If that's not what it means, I cannot think of a single downside to this proposed idea. It's very cool.

I Don't think it can get much worse than DA:O as far as armor variety. There were 2 types of robes, 3 slightly different leather styles that were nearly indistinguishable from each other, and I can only think of 1 heavy armor style. There were more medium and massive armor styles, but even then there wasnt a huge amount of variety.

There was a lot more than you think. And those all do look different. And that's just medium. It is true that there are only a few robes and light armor sets, though. And there are tons of unique massive armors.

[In Exile]

Saibh wrote...

I worry that resource management will lead to there being very few armor sets in the game, period. I guess that's not too bad, and definitely an improvement over DAII, but still.

You mean like how DA:O had, what, 6 models that got re-skinned constantly?

[snackrat]

Brodbeck wrote...

I'm also curious how this is technically possible. You'd have to assign multiple meshes and textures to one single item, so the game can then assign the propper model to the character wearing the armor piece.

Or maybe create a different file for every piece for every character? For example chestpiece1_follower1, chestpiece1_follower2, chestpiece2_follower1, etc

Thats one mayor task, and if the developers could make every single piece for every partymember unique in appearence, that would be fantastic!

Even if time is short, and you would get the same model for different armor pieces, maybe a certain helm would look the same on characters 2 and 5, if something like method 2 was used, you can be sure that the modding community would add alot of variety to the equipment pieces.

So yeah, there's absolutely no downside to this, its a great idea. Well just have to wait and see if its possible to implement I guess.

I was thinking it could be handled similarly to the DAO armours in that mesh-wise, most of them are the same. Companions chestpeices would, for example, get models each for cloth, leather, light armour, 1-2 heavy armour, and 1-2 massive armour models. Textures would be applied to that appropriately. Some components (like hoods, pauldrons, boots) could be more 'true to concept' for the armour piece - the same pauldrons could be added to the visually different chest peices.

[Saibh]

In Exile wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I worry that resource management will lead to there being very few armor sets in the game, period. I guess that's not too bad, and definitely an improvement over DAII, but still.

You mean like how DA:O had, what, 6 models that got re-skinned constantly?

I think people underestimate it. Off the top of my head in the medium section there was the ancient elven armor, the splintmail, the chainmail, the dwarven armor, the dwarven noble armor, the shiny blue and silver armor. There were probably more. I remember Cailan's armor, the different Grey Warden armors (I think there were two?), the Juggernaut armor, templar armor, the dead caste armor...probably more. I think there was the generic massive armor and the regular dwarf armor? I remember only three mage robes, though (Chasind, Tevinter, Circle). 

Perhaps I noticed insignificant details more acutely for some reason. I'm willing to admit in that case, it's not good design and poor variation to begin with.

[In Exile]

Saibh wrote...

I think people underestimate it.

I think we're talking past each other a bit. 




When I say that there were identical models, I mean those two were identical (aside from the helmet, which is actually the templar helmet):

Perhaps I noticed insignificant details more acutely for some reason. I'm willing to admit in that case, it's not good design and poor variation to begin with.

I think you count the texture as being itself 'unique' armour. Which were I disagree, because I think it's way easier (though a real designer can correct me) to reskin than it is to remodel. 

Modifié par In Exile, 14 décembre 2012 - 07:38 .

[Saibh]

In Exile wrote...

I think you count the texture as being itself 'unique' armour. Which were I disagree, because I think it's way easier (though a real designer can correct me) to reskin than it is to remodel. 

I didn't say both Blood Dragon and dwarf armor, though. 

But you're right in saying I put more stock in different textures. Not simply recolors, though. My memory seems to have it that a lot of those massive armors were at least modeled differently in a slight way.

[In Exile]

Saibh wrote...

I didn't say both Blood Dragon and dwarf armor, though. 

But you're right in saying I put more stock in different textures. Not simply recolors, though. My memory seems to have it that a lot of those massive armors were at least modeled differently in a slight way.

I just don't see it. I booted up DA:O, and Juggernaut, Cailan, Warden's armour, and the dragon/whatever crafted armour (plus the river dane armour) all look identical to me. 

I only recall two models of massive: dwarf and juggernaut. 

[d4eaming]

I think you are looking for the difference between a mesh and a texture. Some meshes with different textures rather than lots of meshes with different textures.

[Saibh]

In Exile wrote...
I just don't see it. I booted up DA:O, and Juggernaut, Cailan, Warden's armour, and the dragon/whatever crafted armour (plus the river dane armour) all look identical to me. 

I only recall two models of massive: dwarf and juggernaut. 

The chestplates look different to me--they actually do look like different models. The Grey Warden insignia, for instance, appears to be raised off the chest in the Warden Commander armor. 

Also templar armor! There was that!

[Ponendus]

I think it is the most intelligent way to resolve the issue of needing a marketable look for memorable characters, balanced with the customisation desires most of have when playing RPG's. Having said that, I can't think of another game that does it quite like this, so we don't really have a precedent.

Fingers crossed it's as satisfying as I hope!

[Imp of the Perverse]

Saibh wrote...

In Exile wrote...
I just don't see it. I booted up DA:O, and Juggernaut, Cailan, Warden's armour, and the dragon/whatever crafted armour (plus the river dane armour) all look identical to me. 

I only recall two models of massive: dwarf and juggernaut. 

The chestplates look different to me--they actually do look like different models. The Grey Warden insignia, for instance, appears to be raised off the chest in the Warden Commander armor. 

Also templar armor! There was that!

It's possible to get that raised effect without changing the model, via the normal map. Here's an example of one, it lets models have fine detail without having an enormous polygon count (and lets you create variants by just editing a couple of texture files.)

[SpunkyMonkey]

Nice idea and approach and keeps things fresh.

However, worries me just how much BW seem intent on doing "cool" things in games of late, instead of just making good games. Does anyone actually care about this kind of thing apart from the non-RPG gamers who BW seem determined to snag, regardless of how much they go against core fan-base wishes?

I really wish BW would just make an DA:O/BG style RPG, or a cinematic action game - the boat load of issues which raise their head constantly always seem boil down to trying to appease everyone, and ultimately you just end up with p'd off RPG'ers and uninterested COD players.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 14 décembre 2012 - 12:35 .

[Montana]

I just hope we'll get more than 3 different looks for each companion.

[Commander Kurt]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Does anyone actually care about this kind of thing apart from the non-RPG gamers who BW seem determined to snag, regardless of how much they go against core fan-base wishes?

I really wish BW would just make an DA:O/BG style RPG, or a cinematic action game - the boat load of issues which raise their head constantly always seem boil down to trying to appease everyone, and ultimately you just end up with p'd off RPG'ers and uninterested COD players.

Well, actually, I would say that it's the RPG fans that care. The REAL RPG fans, that is.

(seriously, this "why is BW catering to other tastes than mine" whine is starting to get pretty tiresome)

This really looks like a compromize made in heaven, and the best of both worlds. Better than both DA:O and DA2 if they can pull it off.

Also, I've been looking through the forum and "core fan-base wishes" mostly seem to revolve around whos pants to get into. I don't blame the devs' for trying to attract some fresh blood.

[frankf43]

They don't need to do every piece of armour for every companion. If they make armour class related like they did with the DLC armour packs they only have to make the armour different for the specific characters it will fit.

So if we take DA:2 as an example

Warrior armour would need to fit Aveline, Carver, Fenris, plus Male and Female PC's five different characters.

Rogue armour would need to fit Isabela, Sebastian, Varric, plus Male and Female PC's five different characters.

Mage armour would need to fit Bethany, Anders, Merrill, plus Male and Female PC's five different characters.

So each set of armour would need to fit five distinct characters, still a lot of work but not as bad as it would be making every armour for every character.

I’m not saying this is how they plan to do it but it would make a lot of sense to me.

Either way I think the concept art looks amazing and can’t wait to actually fit these armours onto my new party.

A year seems like such a loooong time right now.

Modifié par frankf43, 14 décembre 2012 - 08:59 .