58 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

Please stop it, thanks.

In Baldurs Gate 1: Bows made even the hardest challenges easy.

In BG2 they were a bit more balanced, but still they had some insanely overpowered ammo types, and still enemy mages (boss fights excluded) were easily dealt with simply by shooting them before they could finish casting their magic, and the arrow protection was always easily breached.

Dragons in DAO were supposed to be incredibly tough battles, but again the old bow and arrow utterly broke the challenge of it. Took just a a few people shooting arrows at the high dragon while she did a poor job of beating down a well protected alistair stocked up with plenty of fire protection and healing potions (the abundance of healing potions were honestly the larger balancing issue with DAO, but that's for another topic).

So yeah, no more of that please.

[Adugan]

In DAO bows sucked because of the slow weapon speed

[mickey111]

no they didn't

[Adugan]

Well then dont use them, problem solved

[Shadow Fox]

You're aware that bows are so terrible in DAO they're considered mostly useless by the majority of the playerbase right?

Plus if you made Alistair a dedicated tank,buffed his fire resist and had him chugging potions ofcourse the dragon's going to focus on him that's the tank's role to act as a meat shield for your mages and ranged characters because they ethier die easily or suck at melee that doesn't mean Archery's broken it means you built a good tank that is doing his job.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 14 décembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[LinksOcarina]

I still want Crossbows back as a weapon you can use. Although I think putting them in a warrior only skill tree would be more appropriate. Let them do more damage and penetration while the bows would be speed and power.

That differentiation would be pretty good if you ask me. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 14 décembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[mickey111]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

You're aware that bows are so terrible in DAO they're considered mostly useless by the majority of the playerbase right?

Plus if you made Alistair a dedicated tank,buffed his fire resist and had him chugging potions ofcourse the dragon's going to focus on him that's the tank's role to act as a meat shield for your mages and ranged characters because they ethier die easily or suck at melee that doesn't mean Archery's broken it means your tank is doing his job.

Except you don't even need dedicated archers to do ****, just one good dedicated tank. He can get beaten up all day long, literally and anyone could hit at least 60% of their shots which is reliable enough.

[PsychoBlonde]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I still want Crossbows back as a weapon you can use. Although I think putting them in a warrior only skill tree would be more appropriate. Let them do more damage and penetration while the bows would be speed and power.

That differentiation would be pretty good if you ask me. 

Absolutely.  This way everybody has a ranged option.

[Shadow Fox]

mickey111 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

You're aware that bows are so terrible in DAO they're considered mostly useless by the majority of the playerbase right?

Plus if you made Alistair a dedicated tank,buffed his fire resist and had him chugging potions ofcourse the dragon's going to focus on him that's the tank's role to act as a meat shield for your mages and ranged characters because they ethier die easily or suck at melee that doesn't mean Archery's broken it means your tank is doing his job.

Except you don't even need dedicated archers to do ****, just one good dedicated tank. He can get beaten up all day long, literally and anyone could hit at least 60% of their shots which is reliable enough.

Then why are you complaining about archers?Sounds more like you have an issue with the way tanking works.

[mickey111]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

You're aware that bows are so terrible in DAO they're considered mostly useless by the majority of the playerbase right?

Plus if you made Alistair a dedicated tank,buffed his fire resist and had him chugging potions ofcourse the dragon's going to focus on him that's the tank's role to act as a meat shield for your mages and ranged characters because they ethier die easily or suck at melee that doesn't mean Archery's broken it means your tank is doing his job.

Except you don't even need dedicated archers to do ****, just one good dedicated tank. He can get beaten up all day long, literally and anyone could hit at least 60% of their shots which is reliable enough.

Then why are you complaining about archers?Sounds more like you have an issue with the way tanking works.

It's more complicated than that. Imbalance is always caused by several things interacting with each other The gameplay is so inbalanced in the players favor in so many ways that it's difficult to pick just one thing which could be toned down. Part of it is the abundance of healing kits and potions making the injury system and healing magic unneeded. Also, a decently built tank can last for hours without a healing mage, and probably three times as long with one. Then there is the fact that even characters without any special training in a particular weapon can hit whatever they're attacking more often than they'd miss. If you add all of these facts together, then you can pretty much just leave your group totally unsupervised in the face of most enemies, watch some porn, shower, shave, make a sandwhich, come back to grab a piece of that sweet dragon hide and make an epic armor out of it.

[Shadow Fox]

So basically it's how easy DAO's combat system was to exploit that you have a problem with?

[Dabrikishaw]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

So basically it's how easy DAO's combat system was to exploit that you have a problem with?

Just about.

/Thread

[Rawgrim]

Oddly enough big guns were rather crappy in KOTOR, to be honest. So bows beats repeating lasercannons in Bioware games.

[LinksOcarina]

Rawgrim wrote...

Oddly enough big guns were rather crappy in KOTOR, to be honest. So bows beats repeating lasercannons in Bioware games.

That always irked me, because I loved giving Canderous and Zalbaar rifles and Bowcasters to use. 

[Direwolf0294]

I thought bows were pretty underwhelming in both DA games. They should really add an entire class that focuses on bow use instead of just making it an offshoot of warrior or rogue.

[LinksOcarina]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I thought bows were pretty underwhelming in both DA games. They should really add an entire class that focuses on bow use instead of just making it an offshoot of warrior or rogue.

I don't know, I honestly think it makes more sense to have a bow/crossbow skill tree for rogues/warriors instead of it being a separate class. It would need some re-tooling of course to make it work, but it would be a lot more balanced in the end I think if that distinction is made and they refine the weapons/skill trees a bit more. 

[Rawgrim]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Oddly enough big guns were rather crappy in KOTOR, to be honest. So bows beats repeating lasercannons in Bioware games.

That always irked me, because I loved giving Canderous and Zalbaar rifles and Bowcasters to use. 

Same here. Anyone with a 2 handed gun ended up sucking in fights. 1 pistol in each hand was pretty decent, though.

[Imp of the Perverse]

They pretty much fixed it in DA2, the dragon minibosses would chase you around so you had to kite them, and the high dragon sent waves of dragonlings after you that were a pain to deal with if your party was entirely rogue archers. Level design for things like the vartarrel made it so that you couldn't just park your ranged guys in a safe spot, they were out there in the open getting pounced and spat on.

[In Exile]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

They pretty much fixed it in DA2, the dragon minibosses would chase you around so you had to kite them, and the high dragon sent waves of dragonlings after you that were a pain to deal with if your party was entirely rogue archers. Level design for things like the vartarrel made it so that you couldn't just park your ranged guys in a safe spot, they were out there in the open getting pounced and spat on.

All the DA2 boss battles are just a fight with the terrible camera and movement controls. They tried to design an action-adventure fight with a control scheme that's just plain garbage for it. 

[Imp of the Perverse]

In Exile wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

They pretty much fixed it in DA2, the dragon minibosses would chase you around so you had to kite them, and the high dragon sent waves of dragonlings after you that were a pain to deal with if your party was entirely rogue archers. Level design for things like the vartarrel made it so that you couldn't just park your ranged guys in a safe spot, they were out there in the open getting pounced and spat on.

All the DA2 boss battles are just a fight with the terrible camera and movement controls. They tried to design an action-adventure fight with a control scheme that's just plain garbage for it. 

What you're talking about doesn't really have any relevence to bows. DA2 got some things wrong, but it also improved on a lot of things from Origins. Totally dismissing everything about it because of the usual hate would be a mistake. 

[In Exile]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

What you're talking about doesn't really have any relevence to bows. DA2 got some things wrong, but it also improved on a lot of things from Origins. Totally dismissing everything about it because of the usual hate would be a mistake. 

I really liked DA2, overall. I just hated the boss fights, and thought they didn't fit with the control scheme at all. 

[Imp of the Perverse]

In Exile wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

What you're talking about doesn't really have any relevence to bows. DA2 got some things wrong, but it also improved on a lot of things from Origins. Totally dismissing everything about it because of the usual hate would be a mistake. 

I really liked DA2, overall. I just hated the boss fights, and thought they didn't fit with the control scheme at all. 

They took out that isometric camera that you could move independent of the characters, which was annoying, and a lot of the boss fights required micromanagement of your party's positions, often in ways that totally ran counter to the way they'd usually behave, like trying to stand behind pillars to avoid the AOE from that rock wraith, only to have your companions step back out again because of autoattack. Also that maze battle against Corypheus was ridiculously frustrating at times, but pretty original at least. If you'd told me they were adding a fight where you had to get your entire dragon age party to navigate a timed maze while avoiding lightning, falling icicles, and instakill fire, I'd have pictured something about as much fun as QWOP, but the AI did a way better job of navigating it than I would have expected.

As far as being able to just park your archers out of harms way and widdle down any bosses goes, though, I don't remember that ever being an option in DA2.

Modifié par Imp of the Perverse, 14 décembre 2012 - 08:21 .

[Ninja Stan]

Some fighting removed.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

In DA2 you can defeat Arishok (arguably strongest boss in game, with biggest hp and damage) with nothing but simple bow.