26 réponses à ce sujet

[Celene II]

some thing else to choose, during leveling up, you got rid of skills in DA2, you are cutting down specializations to 1 instead of 2.

We need more ways to make different characters.

Will my blood mage be exactly the same as everyone else's blood mage if there is only 1 specialization,  no skills, and every blood mage is going to spend their attributes basically the same way? The answer to that rhetorical question is yes, absolutely. If your options are limited your outcomes are limited.

You need to include more metrics for progression. 

How about perks or advantages?

In DA2,  you level up and you pick 1 talent or spell, and you spend 3 attribute points and eventually you got to spend TWO specialization points.

DA3 needs more not less then DA2.  How about adding stuff to make us different, please?


Celene II

[In Exile]

So let me preface this by saying that it would be nice to have an RPG that has interesting vs. boring character building - but I think at this point we're stuck with the D&D legacy.

Skills were useless in DA:O. They were either a gateway to combat feats/tactics, meaning point dumps, or a mage dumping into herbalism, or basically irrelevant flavour.

A specialization is nothing more than a late-game talent tree. The trade off for one less talent tree is branching content in-game, in theory.

[AntiChri5]

Your blood mage may be more similar to my blood mage, but less mages are blood mages.

In DA2, there were three specialisations and you more or less HAD to choose two (you didn't have to invest perk points, but still).

Two out of three is not bloody specialising.

I vastly prefer single specialisation, it means it actually matters.

They can simply add more regular trees, and more spells within them. Trees like Entropy and Primal and Elemental, general stuff to differentiate my bloodmage from yours.

Specialisations hav been done terribly in every previous Dragon Age game, i finally have high hopes for them.

[Mark of the Dragon]

If it makes the specialiazation actually matter I would be ok with that. I mean in the end it is the players choice what moves to purchase from that specialization and as long as there is more then one to choose from I do not see a problem.

It could also mean more fleshed out and useful specializations and i am cool with that.

[Darkfighter99]

wait, when did Bioware say they're only gonna have one specialiazation?

[Icesong]

Darkfighter99 wrote...

wait, when did Bioware say they're only gonna have one specialiazation?

He's saying that skills are a form of specialization.

[Dhiro]

Icesong wrote...

Darkfighter99 wrote...

wait, when did Bioware say they're only gonna have one specialiazation?

He's saying that skills are a form of specialization.

Mike Laidlaw (I believe) mentioned that they want to make specializations matter more plot-wise. To avoid contradiction, they may cut your avaliable specializations to 1, while giving it more relevance in exchange. I'm not sure if BW confirmed this or if that's just another of BSN's "facts".

In my opinion, if they are to give us one less specialization, we should get a bigger number of different abilities. For example, demon-summoning abilities for blood mages, more interesting heals for Spirit Healers, etc etc.

[funmachine]

I got the impression that they're trying to integrate specializations into the story for DA:I, meaning you do a quest to become a blood mage for example, and then later on in the game it will open up options and dialogue that aren't available if you had chosen another specialization. This, in my humble opinion, would be a VAST improvement from things such as "buy a book and be a spirit healer" and "slice wrists and sacrifice people in front of templars and then walk away without any consequences."

I honestly think that getting just 1 specialization doesn't mean that you can't make a unique blood mage (or any other class for that matter). There are other "standard" skill and magic trees that enable you to define the way your character plays, so it doesn't revolve solely around how many unique skill trees you can unlock.

Modifié par funmachine, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[Fast Jimmy]

 I'd like to think they are taking a cue from DA2's companion's design.


For instance, let's look at Anders' custom skill branch, Vengeance:



Now, in this branch, we can see Ander's unique skill tree. We could say, for all practical purposes, this is his "Specialization" tree, since we don't get to pick a Specialization for our companions in DA2 and this has special skills not seen in the "standard" trees. Please note that the number of Skills in this tree is way higher than the four skills that were all that was offered for the Specializations in DA:O - 8 skills for this tree, in particular (9 if you count the upgrade, and 11 if you further add the two passive attribute options availabe).


On the upper side of the tree, we see Anders skills as a healer amplified. His ability to heal the group or put a buff that constantly regenerates health is seen here.

On the lower side of the tree, we see Anders nature of being made more aggressive by Vengeance, with a focus on doing more damage and making spells become more powerful.

In addition to these two "arcs," if you will, that Anders skill tree can run, we also have two permanent bonuses that are optional (but exclusive, you can only have one). They are the "Eye to Eye" bonus, which improves damage across the board, and the "No Compromises" bonus, which regerates Health for Anders much more quickly. These bonuses are based off of Anders Friendship/Rivalry ratings, but in a model for the PC, this could be done in letting us choose one passive bonus.

This would let you choose two "pathways" in your Specialization, as well as a passive modifier which would further accentuate your play style. 


You could be a blood mage and focus on using your own blood to make your spells much more powerful, or you could focus on controlling the blood of others, causing damage and also taking control of your enemies. 

You could be a Templar who focuses on cancelling out magic attacks of other Mages or other classes, or you could focus on the more offensive side, releasing attacks like Holy Smite, which do Spirit damage to your enemies.

You could be a Duelist who focuses on negating and deflecting most attacks sent your way, or you could focus on making pinpoint accurate strikes, where your Crit rate and damage modifiers are through the roof.



So... that's what I think they will do with the Specializations. Make them tied to a general concept, but offer us more than one path with that Specialization, so it almost really feels like two. Or, even allow us to walk the middle line and do a balance between the two playstyles.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[AppealToReason]

As long as I still have a specialization that gives me sick DPS boost fine. If you take that away I'm gonna be a grumpy Gus!

[philippe willaume]

Regardless on how it is done.
I am hoping that the generic and specialisation will be complex enough to permit different tactical approaches or enable the protagonist/companion to fill several roles.

The idea fro me is to get closer to DA:1 tactical approach when playing a suboptimal build and to get away from the repetitive tediousness of the DA:2 ultimate builds.

So for example both a warrior and a mêlée oriented rogue should be able to DPS, tank and crowd control.

both class don't need to be equivalents or getting to the result the same way in all departments but they should be able to all of them well enough to be useful.

So that would leave specialisation, for more flavour specific.
like chevalier, templar, assassin , reaver, blood mage, inqusitor

That being said may there could be some specialisation if the player is supporting a faction.
Ie circle mage, tevinter supporter renegade mage, role in the Quun, chantry suppoter. elf activist.

with that in mind, i like Fast jimmy idea and i think that specialisation should have an impact on how NPCs/the world sees you and optional dialogue lines. (like the renegade/paragon extra line in mass effect).

Phil

[jvaz]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Specialization in DA2 is ridiculous...

We have two specializations but we cannot specialized in both, it is because of lacking perk points, we will end up specialized in one only and the other just to get "unlocked"

The "normal skills" should be the specializations...Battle Master, Vanguard, Scoundrel, Specialist...all these should be the Specializations.

In DA2, there are actually repetitive skills that doing the very same thing with different names

You must not have played the Templar/Reaver warrior or the beserker/reaver warrior or the assassin/shadow rogue or the elemental force/blood mage.  Or you just dont have all DLC to maximize exp and do all quests possible to have talent points to make a build that encompasses two specializations.  

By the end of a playthrough before meredith I can reach level 28/29 (no exp glitch).  But my character is pretty much done by the beginning of Act 3

[Doctoglethorpe]

In Exile wrote...
Skills were useless in DA:O. They were either a gateway to combat feats/tactics, meaning point dumps, or a mage dumping into herbalism, or basically irrelevant flavour.
 

Doesn't mean they couldn't be made useful. 

I say go the Skyrim rout, have skill trees devoted to non-combat talents.  Alchemy, Enchanting, Smithing, Thievery, etc.  Seperate though.  Essentially the same it was in DAO in terms of being a seperate list of skills with seperate points to invest in that you get less often.  Maybe make it so only one full tree can be maxed in a single playthrough for balance and to give reason to care which skills you give to your companions, or maybe more idk that would be up to Bioware to balance out.    But like Skyrim, make it so the skill trees are branching and are as much about tweaking the skills as it is about allowing you to use them more.  Like making the items you craft stronger, or lowering ingredient costs, etc.  Skyrim's skill trees are a good example to go on.  Could combine that with Mass Effect's evolution system, where you pick certain changes that lock out others.  Thats something I would like to see for combat skills as well. 

[sunnydxmen]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Your blood mage may be more similar to my blood mage, but less mages are blood mages.

In DA2, there were three specialisations and you more or less HAD to choose two (you didn't have to invest perk points, but still).

Two out of three is not bloody specialising.

I vastly prefer single specialisation, it means it actually matters.

They can simply add more regular trees, and more spells within them. Trees like Entropy and Primal and Elemental, general stuff to differentiate my bloodmage from yours.

Specialisations hav been done terribly in every previous Dragon Age game, i finally have high hopes for them.

what you talkin about any mage can become a blood mage every mage knows about it the rarest magic is arcane warrior.

[XX-Pyro]

One specialization is better. That way I'm actually, you know, specialized. DA2 was a step in the right direction but I feel like DA3 will hit the mark in this regard.

Modifié par XX-Pyro, 17 décembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[nightscrawl]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Your blood mage may be more similar to my blood mage, but less mages are blood mages.

I would be curious to know the stats on this one. From the forums you'd think that everyone made a blood mage. I've never specced into it**. The only time I've ever played with a blood mage was when I controlled Jowan on one playthrough and sent him into the fade after Connor. I've never played it at all in DA2.



** I will qualify that by saying that I have actually specced into it on a couple of occasions in DAO with myself and Wynne for the passive bonuses, but I've never used the skills on my PC.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[Urazz]

XX-Pyro wrote...

One specialization is better. That way I'm actually, you know, specialized. DA2 was a step in the right direction but I feel like DA3 will hit the mark in this regard.

Exactly what I feel.  Specializations really weren't there for specialization in a particular field it felt like.  Going this route in DA3 and making it have an impact on the plot will be excellent in my opinion.

[Iakus]

 I have no proble with only one specialization to a character.  Actually two specializations sounds kind of odd when you think about it 

But if this does indeed become the case I'd hope that A) specialties do indeed feel "special" both in gameplay and story.  and we have more specialties to choose from.

[Plaintiff]

Celene II wrote...
Will my blood mage be exactly the same as everyone else's blood mage if there is only 1 specialization,  no skills, and every blood mage is going to spend their attributes basically the same way?

And where exactly did Bioware say they were getting rid of skills and attribute points?

Not to mention there are several schools of magic outside of the specializations, that allow mages plenty of variety.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Celene II]

They got rid of skills in DA2

You did not have to pick skill points in DA2 there was no herbalism, no Runecrafting, No Vitality and no Clarity.

They were already removed. If they bring them back they will be doing what im asking for in the first place.

They have not nor did i state they were removing attributes, I said that mages will spend theirs exactly the same way because they are standard cookie cutters builds with little chance at differences.

For example, Blood mages will put points into magic and constitution because its most advantageous for that build.

All im asking for is for them to increase anything

More passive spells or talents,
More active spells or talents

Anything new that makes my character different from yours.. A perk per level would be perfect if the perks were small and did not overwhelm the game.

Basically im asking for them to stop making the character building so easy to do, right now they have 2 variables. Attributes and Talents/spells.

They need to include more so that building characters means something.

[XX-Pyro]

Building your character means more now due to there being only one specialization point allowed per character. What's the problem here?

[philippe willaume]

iakus wrote...

 I have no proble with only one specialization to a character.  Actually two specializations sounds kind of odd when you think about it 

But if this does indeed become the case I'd hope that A) specialties do indeed feel "special" both in gameplay and story.  and we have more specialties to choose from.

well yes and no.
yes have more choices for each play through but you will have less options as to what you can do for a given playthrough.

Phil