69 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

What would anyone want or expect from such a cameo?


Is it just to be a validation of your previous choices? A forced, contrived way to say "Hey, I romanced Allistair and I'm living happily ever after as queen! I don't really have any role or purpose to being here or saying this to a random stranger... but hai-bai!"

That would be pretty shallow and nonsensical. And if either character came back in a larger way, tied to the story such as the Mage/Templar War, that's just a setup for people to complain and rage. Would the Warden or Hawke play a neutral role? That wouldn't satisfy those had Wardens/Hawke's who took hard stances on Mage Freedom or Templar Rule.

Would they take a side in the war? What would they base this off of, Hawke's choice at the end of Act 3, or the Warden's choice at the Circle? Both of those were special cases and wouldn't necessarily reflect how every Warden could feel.

For instance, a Warden in DA:O may have failed to pick up the Littany of Andraste and decided that there was a real chance that demonic presences and Abominations were still very possible. That doesn't mean they believe Mages shouldn't be free, it would simply mean that in a case where widespread possession and the possibility of corruption, the Warden said it would be better to recruit the Templars to fight in a war rather than the Mages. Or over half a dozen other reasons I could whip up off the top of my head why players may have chosen one of these actions and still may want to side on the other side of the war.


There's no good way to do that.

So, we're right back to the age-old problem of Save Imports in general.They can't elaborate and bring anything back into the main plot without stepping on toes, enforcing retcons or creating tons of extra content that a majority of players won't see it. Or they do small, isolated and (often silly) cameos, which do little more than say "Hey! You made this choice! I'm here because of it! I have no relevance to the rest of the plot, but serve only to be total fan service!" Which, again, is silly.

Leave our characters in the past. Move on. The very concept of the Save Import only works to foster the illusion that any of it will matter or come up again, which it can't. Its not what it is functionally capable of doing.

[mickey111]

Saibh wrote...

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with seeing A) our Warden/Hawke canonized into a particular figure to streamline their adaptability into the story or our Warden/Hawke acting out of character, and I promise you no one else would be either, so I don't think BioWare will choose to involve them that way.

Revan. http://www.amazon.co...&keywords=revan

You overestimate how much Bioware care about you.

[Pedrak]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The Warden story is over and Hawke's story was boring.

Let them both go.

I would actually agree with this, but I have to say that after all the brouhaha about the search for Hawke in DA2, dropping him altogether would be narratively weak. He doesn't need to make an appearance, but he has to play some off-screen role. He could be mentioned several times with different fates depending on the choices you made in DA2 (ex. died heroically after siding with the Mages, with the Templars...). Something. Maybe one sidequest is finding out the truth about his death, or avenging him, or whatever.

He doesn't have to be a major character (in fact, I hope he isn't), but pretending he never existed just to spite DA2 wouldn't work.

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 décembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Heimdall]

mickey111 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with seeing A) our Warden/Hawke canonized into a particular figure to streamline their adaptability into the story or our Warden/Hawke acting out of character, and I promise you no one else would be either, so I don't think BioWare will choose to involve them that way.

Revan. http://www.amazon.co...&keywords=revan

You overestimate how much Bioware care about you.

Wasn't Revan canonized like seven years ago by Lucasfilms?  I don't think Bioware had a part in that decision.  They did the same for the Exile.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[BubbleDncr]

I would like Hawke to come back, since it easier for them to "do it right" with Hawke than with the Warden - hell, I think they could make Hawke a full fledged party member and not bother me - just import her character model, make her "stance" be pro-mage, and tailor her dialog to be witty, and there you go (replace my Hawke's gender, stance and tone with your Hawke's for your game).

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

[Wulfram]

I can't see how they could appear in the game without either having them act potentially out of character, or being utterly bland.

But they do need to get unvanished.

[Todd23]

The Warden should, but not Hawke.

[zeMadMonkey]

If they did return their behaviour and goals could be based on decisions you made in past games and import them over. Its not perfect but it could be close to them being in character.

The Warden returning would be cool but there are too many variables making their return unlikely. They could probably try and bring them back but it would be really difficul to fit all the scenarios regarding the Wardens disappearance.

Hawke however cannot die in DA2 and their search for him/her suddenly dropped wouldn't make much sense seeing as how they have been searching for some time. If s/he does return s/he could be a major ally or enemy. Or you could meet hawke in one quest and they pass their quest onto you saying it is the new guys duty now. Then Hawke leaves and lives the rest of his life and is left open to interpretation. If this was the case then it would also leave a cameo for Hawkes LI giving people who want closure on that matter.

If this did happen for Hawke then those who liked Hawke would be given closure on waht happened to her/him and for those who didn't  like Hawke wouldn't have to worry about seeing Hawke again as Hawke's part in the major events are over. At least thats just my opinion

Modifié par zeMadMonkey, 14 décembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[Fast Jimmy]

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

[NoForgiveness]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

[Fast Jimmy]

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

[abaris]

Since this obviously isn't a continous series, I couldn't care less.

Which Warden and which Hawke should return exactly? The canon version or the bazillion of variations every user had?

That would be a nightmare to integrate and I'd rather they invest that time, money and effort into storytelling, quests and animations.

[Fast Jimmy]

abaris wrote...

Since this obviously isn't a continous series, I couldn't care less.

Which Warden and which Hawke should return exactly? The canon version or the bazillion of variations every user had?

That would be a nightmare to integrate and I'd rather they invest that time, money and effort into storytelling, quests and animations.

Here, here.

[NoForgiveness]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

they didnt just throw that line in there for ****s and giggles they have a general plan for it. changing details is one thing but there is a plan. just like they know the qunari will invade thedas just not how and when

[Sylvanpyxie]

Jimmy said:
There's no good way to do that.

Inclined to agree with this.

[Fast Jimmy]

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

they didnt just throw that line in there for ****s and giggles they have a general plan for it. changing details is one thing but there is a plan. just like they know the qunari will invade thedas just not how and when

I hope so. I have my doubts, but I hope so. 

For instance, I feel like they had plans for the Expansion Pack for DA2, story wise. And that got canned. Some of the ideas/concepts will be recycled, sure... but fleshing out Hawke as a character I'm sure was one of those ideas and now we are debating if we'll even see Hawke in DA3. 

Likely what will happen? There will be a book/comic/anime that talks about the line Leliana says at the end of DA2, where Hawke's story gets wrapped up. And then the game DA3 won't mention it at all. That's what the odds I would predict if I was a gambling man.

[philippe willaume]

Felya87 wrote...

I would have preferred to not have back my Warden (Hawke I don't care...she can be whatever she want, as long as I don't have to see her ever again) but with the implication something happened to her, well, now I want to know! why she disappeared? she didin't go with Morrigan, so what happened to her?

+1 on all accounts

[BubbleDncr]

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

they didnt just throw that line in there for ****s and giggles they have a general plan for it. changing details is one thing but there is a plan. just like they know the qunari will invade thedas just not how and when

I agree - they had to have known that by putting that line at the end of DA2 would make people wonder what happened to Warden + Hawke. If they didn't antipate that, and just hoped that it would make people more accepting of a new protagonist in DA3...well, their mistake.

Honestly, if they don't have an answer as to why the Warden and Hawke disappeared, the should have just not mentioned them disappearing at all. Cos then everyone would have just happily come up with their own head-cannons as to why they never showed up again.

[NoForgiveness]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

they didnt just throw that line in there for ****s and giggles they have a general plan for it. changing details is one thing but there is a plan. just like they know the qunari will invade thedas just not how and when

I hope so. I have my doubts, but I hope so. 

For instance, I feel like they had plans for the Expansion Pack for DA2, story wise. And that got canned. Some of the ideas/concepts will be recycled, sure... but fleshing out Hawke as a character I'm sure was one of those ideas and now we are debating if we'll even see Hawke in DA3. 

Likely what will happen? There will be a book/comic/anime that talks about the line Leliana says at the end of DA2, where Hawke's story gets wrapped up. And then the game DA3 won't mention it at all. That's what the odds I would predict if I was a gambling man.

 ugh.. i seriously hope they dont do that. the movies/books/anything that not a game just seem off to me like dawn of the seeker.. since when do drakes have wings? and that pride demon was way to big.. and the tallis one too it was just off it didnt seem like the games

Modifié par MR_PN, 14 décembre 2012 - 11:43 .

[Fast Jimmy]

BubbleDncr wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

But I would also be fine with not seeing Hawke and the Warden again, so long they reveal why they both disappeared.

LOL Reveal. As if the writers had any clue when they wrote that bit in the first place.

uh... hello? this is dragon age they dont just wing it. or at least the games dont. dawn of the seeker did a bit i think

Just like the creators of Lost weren't winging it either, right? LOL

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. But as Gaider himself has said (paraphrased, of course) in game development, you can't make plans. Or, if you do, expect those plans to change. 

Writing a story for a series like Dragon Age is like pin the tail on the donkey. They have a piece they know they want to use, but it doesn't always wind up where it may have been best or look like how it should have looked. 

they didnt just throw that line in there for ****s and giggles they have a general plan for it. changing details is one thing but there is a plan. just like they know the qunari will invade thedas just not how and when

I agree - they had to have known that by putting that line at the end of DA2 would make people wonder what happened to Warden + Hawke. If they didn't antipate that, and just hoped that it would make people more accepting of a new protagonist in DA3...well, their mistake.

Honestly, if they don't have an answer as to why the Warden and Hawke disappeared, the should have just not mentioned them disappearing at all. Cos then everyone would have just happily come up with their own head-cannons as to why they never showed up again.

Just like how they should have had a really good story and plan for the Old God Baby and how they would weave that into the story while, at the same exact time, reward and acknowledge those players who DIDN'T participate in the Dark Ritual, instead of acknowledging putting that big of a choice into the game leaves them with problems that they haven't resolved yet, well past the date when they made DA:O. (skip to the section beginning with "TUK: Slightly related to that, will we see...")

The truth is, the nature of writng a series that requires constant technological lmitations, resource limitations, the work of a dozen other writers and the whims of a market are going to make it so that no plan is possible. And, even if it IS possible, Bioware is not bending over backwards to make a story plan, at least not one that deals with details outside of a vague, general concept "we'd like to do X in one of our games." 

I would suggest reading all of that interview I linked. It shows how fractured the reality of making a game is to what we perceive as the "story of Thedas." There is no "plan." There is only a team of people trying desperately to hold it all together and sometimes suceeding, sometimes not.

[Madeline McQueen]

I suggested it because of course both their stories have to end at some point, but what I would love to see is both their stories have a happy ending. Before we move on to other characters and plots, it would be great to know that I gave both previous characters the best endings I could and with both endings from each game I don't feel that has happened. I know life isn't perfect but this is a game so why not make their lives as perfect as we can get it? I feel it would be brilliant if the Warden can get rid of the taint, live as normal lives as they can. If we're never going to play with them again afterwords it won't be boring in future games because they wont be involved. And of course sort Anders out. He was messed up in the second one, he was much better in the first. :-)

[Fast Jimmy]

Madeline McQueen wrote...

I suggested it because of course both their stories have to end at some point, but what I would love to see is both their stories have a happy ending. Before we move on to other characters and plots, it would be great to know that I gave both previous characters the best endings I could and with both endings from each game I don't feel that has happened. I know life isn't perfect but this is a game so why not make their lives as perfect as we can get it? I feel it would be brilliant if the Warden can get rid of the taint, live as normal lives as they can. If we're never going to play with them again afterwords it won't be boring in future games because they wont be involved. And of course sort Anders out. He was messed up in the second one, he was much better in the first. :-)

Sorry... I don't think you're going to get any of that. The happiest ending you're likely to even wrestle out of Bioware may have been DA:O. I think they are going to do their best to ignore Hawke and the Warden completely and let them fade into obscurity. Its the cheapest and least resource-intensive solution to something that not everyone wants to see or even CAN see (if your Warden is dead). So I think that makes it the most likely.

And, to be fair... I sorted Anders out just fine in DA2. 

[wsandista]

No.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I would just as soon have new people. As far as I'm concerned the best way to handle Hawke or the Warden is rumor, mentions by third party, codex entries or an indeterminate shadow in the distance. Unless one of the old characters is important to the story I don't care to see them. Even though I enjoyed seeing Alistair (even if he was ugged up) his presence didn't really add anything. I want something new in the next game.