Modifié par Pedrak, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:09 .
DA:2 Haters - How can DA:3 redeem itself and save the series?
Débuté par
SpunkyMonkey
, déc. 14 2012 10:39
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#27
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 05:16
Rawgrim
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More rpg, less action game.
I don`t hate DA2, though. I dislike it.
I don`t hate DA2, though. I dislike it.
#28
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 05:29
Scarlet Rabbi
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Madmoe77 wrote...
Bioware should go bold or go home! Not something sudden like Anders blowing up a chantry but something real to the war. Having a mage burned at the stake! Not just any mage but someone important that we know and someone from the old game reacting to it for effect:
1) Morrigan burns at the stake while Alistair begs to put her out.
Hahahaaa! I'd love to see any human, no matter how doped up on lyrium they are or even if they have an inverted sword on their armor, attempt to put a daughter of Flemeth to the stake. They themselves will probably be subjected to the pain of 1,000 burning stakes for their effort.
But I like your other scenarios.
#29
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 05:33
Steppenwolf
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-Find a middle ground between Origins' slow, shuffling combat and II's ridiculous ninja combat with exploding bodies.
-Silent protagonist. I know it's not going to happen, but as long as the DA series has a Hawke-like character as the PC it just won't be as immersive for me as Origins was.
-A grand, epic journey. I was mostly bored with Hawke and his petty goals. I don't want to play some a-hole who just wants to be rich and live in a mansion.
-No DA2-style story structure. Skipping years of the PCs life to get to the "big" moments makes it feel like we're just moving some guy around and pressing buttons. It's totally immersion-breaking IMO.
How do I into logic?
-Silent protagonist. I know it's not going to happen, but as long as the DA series has a Hawke-like character as the PC it just won't be as immersive for me as Origins was.
-A grand, epic journey. I was mostly bored with Hawke and his petty goals. I don't want to play some a-hole who just wants to be rich and live in a mansion.
-No DA2-style story structure. Skipping years of the PCs life to get to the "big" moments makes it feel like we're just moving some guy around and pressing buttons. It's totally immersion-breaking IMO.
simfamSP wrote...
DA2 haters? Well that makes their opinion bias, thus unreliable.
How do I into logic?
Modifié par BasilKarlo, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:41 .
#30
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 05:35
Fast Jimmy
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Pedrak wrote...
Good post Jimmy. Cheers.
I live to serve, good sir. I live to serve.
#31
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 05:59
Kaiser Arian XVII
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What Jimmy the fast said
#32
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:02
HTTP 404
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I just want bioware to have a vision and stick with it, without any of our input.
#33
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:03
The Teyrn of Whatever
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"How can DA:3 redeem itself and save the series? "
Redeem itself? Why, has DA3 done something wrong? The game's not even out yet. You might have written, "How can DA:3 (sic) redeem and save the series?". Sorry for being that guy.
As for DA2, I feel it took some steps in the wrong direction. I don't hate. I don't even dislike it. DA2 is not on my top ten list of all time favourite games, but I'm not a part of the "It ruined Dragon Age" crowd, but then again I also am not one of those people still butthurt over the endings of ME3 and kvetching about it endlessly on BSN or other forums on the internet either.
Redeem itself? Why, has DA3 done something wrong? The game's not even out yet. You might have written, "How can DA:3 (sic) redeem and save the series?". Sorry for being that guy.
As for DA2, I feel it took some steps in the wrong direction. I don't hate. I don't even dislike it. DA2 is not on my top ten list of all time favourite games, but I'm not a part of the "It ruined Dragon Age" crowd, but then again I also am not one of those people still butthurt over the endings of ME3 and kvetching about it endlessly on BSN or other forums on the internet either.
Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:07 .
#34
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:04
The Teyrn of Whatever
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HTTP 404 wrote...
I just want bioware to have a vision and stick with it, without any of our input.
That would make you a rare specimen here on the BSN. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or pity you.
#35
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:05
HTTP 404
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The Teryn of Whatever wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
I just want bioware to have a vision and stick with it, without any of our input.
That would make you a rare specimen here on the BSN. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or pity you.
You are probably right.
#36
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:12
abaris
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The Teryn of Whatever wrote...
As for DA2, I feel it took some steps in the wrong direction. I don't hate. I don't even dislike it. DA2 is not on my top ten list of all time favourite games, but I'm not a part of the "It ruined Dragon Age" crowd, but then again I also am not one of those people still butthurt over the endings of ME3 and kvetching about it endlessly on BSN or other forums on the internet either.
I didn't buy either of the above mentioned, so I'm not butthurt. But playing the DAII demo and having had a good hard look at ME3 I simply hope they're not the future of Bioware games.
I didn't like what I saw and I liked previous games. Bioware games were amongst those I almost bought blindly. Now I'm in the sceptics department to put it mildly. The last two just weren't my style.
Modifié par abaris, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:13 .
#37
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:21
The Teyrn of Whatever
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HTTP 404 wrote...
The Teryn of Whatever wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
I just want bioware to have a vision and stick with it, without any of our input.
That would make you a rare specimen here on the BSN. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or pity you.
You are probably right.
I get the distinct impression that suggestions people make like for example, "Please no characters like Fenris." are probably the ones they chuckle over for a moment or two before ignoring it thereafter and moving on.
I want BioWare to tell the story they feel they want to tell. I hesitate to use the term artistic integrity because of the negative connotation it bears among BioWare fans, post-ME3, but I do feel that the writers are entitled to stick to their guns when it comes to the story, whether fans end up liking it or not.
I won't be happy if the story is poorly told or the plot shoddily constructed, but I'm not likely to get upset over a bittersweet or downer ending or a prominent, likeable, non-companion NPC dying no matter what (regardless of choices and consequences), if it suits the story being told. I'm even less likely to whine at BioWare to change what has already happened in the game or to avoid doing the same sort of thing again in the next game.
I want BioWare to include the companions and characters they feel fit into the story they're telling. I'm okay with one or two characters showing up due to popularity and I like cameos by companions and NPCs from previous games. I doubt BioWare is going to look at peoples' Top 5 and Top 10 lists here on BSN and compile a party based on the characters that show up most frequently on those lists.
Lastly, I really don't want to see BioWare buckle under pressure to demands that Dragon Age games must be about Blights and Darkspawn, but I don't think they will. Blights are rare occurences and BioWare deciding not to have every game involve and evil horde is a good thing. Evil hordes are very, very cliched in heroic fantasy.
#38
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:22
toto2300
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I just hope they get the ending right. It would be nice to see them make something more like DA:O, but the big thing I want to see them do is make a good ending.
Ya, still pissed off about ME3 over here.
Ya, still pissed off about ME3 over here.
#39
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:23
Guest_Hanz54321_*
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The only thing I can honestly think of is don't punish us for importing our games by denying us the standard gear and upgrades.
In DA2 it was, "Did you kill Zevran in Origins? Well now Isabella goes without her fourth armor upgrade. Did you play Awakening? No? Well now you don't get Varric's fourth armor upgrade."
Having our decisions affect which encounters we have or miss, I was totally cool with. That is decisions affecting the story.
Denying us gear was totally uncool. That just presses me to metagame for the sake of not gimping my party.
Otherwise, based on what I've read and seen from devs, I think that DA3 is going to be the best one yet.
In DA2 it was, "Did you kill Zevran in Origins? Well now Isabella goes without her fourth armor upgrade. Did you play Awakening? No? Well now you don't get Varric's fourth armor upgrade."
Having our decisions affect which encounters we have or miss, I was totally cool with. That is decisions affecting the story.
Denying us gear was totally uncool. That just presses me to metagame for the sake of not gimping my party.
Otherwise, based on what I've read and seen from devs, I think that DA3 is going to be the best one yet.
#40
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 06:32
HTTP 404
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The Teryn of Whatever wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
The Teryn of Whatever wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
I just want bioware to have a vision and stick with it, without any of our input.
That would make you a rare specimen here on the BSN. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or pity you.
You are probably right.
I get the distinct impression that suggestions people make like for example, "Please no characters like Fenris." are probably the ones they chuckle over for a moment or two before ignoring it thereafter and moving on.
I want BioWare to tell the story they feel they want to tell. I hesitate to use the term artistic integrity because of the negative connotation it bears among BioWare fans, post-ME3, but I do feel that the writers are entitled to stick to their guns when it comes to the story, whether fans end up liking it or not.
I won't be happy if the story is poorly told or the plot shoddily constructed, but I'm not likely to get upset over a bittersweet or downer ending or a prominent, likeable, non-companion NPC dying no matter what (regardless of choices and consequences), if it suits the story being told. I'm even less likely to whine at BioWare to change what has already happened in the game or to avoid doing the same sort of thing again in the next game.
I want BioWare to include the companions and characters they feel fit into the story they're telling. I'm okay with one or two characters showing up due to popularity and I like cameos by companions and NPCs from previous games. I doubt BioWare is going to look at peoples' Top 5 and Top 10 lists here on BSN and compile a party based on the characters that show up most frequently on those lists.
Lastly, I really don't want to see BioWare buckle under pressure to demands that Dragon Age games must be about Blights and Darkspawn, but I don't think they will. Blights are rare occurences and BioWare deciding not to have every game involve and evil horde is a good thing. Evil hordes are very, very cliched in heroic fantasy.
Can you imagine if BSN was the producer/leadwriter/lead designer of DA3? I don't mind if bioware draws ideas from the forums but it has to fit what it is they want to do, their vision/goal/mission.
Also, I am a big fan and wanting the darkspawn/blight story instead of the templar/mage. But thats my opinion. haha and I don't expect bioware to change their gameplan because of my opinion.
#41
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 07:03
Sir George Parr
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A better ending than DA 2.As It is very abrupt and confusing. As i come away from that game thinking is that it?. Hawke must be coming back in a sequel, its the only way to make any sense of it to me. Those epilogue slides from DA O are sorely missed at that point.The brief explanation from Varric and Cassandra feels almost like an after thought.So if this is the only time we as players are going to spend with this voiced protagonist i really want closure at the end rather than an ending thats more interested in setting the stage for a sequel . Where as i go towards DA I wanting answers on Hawke instead of looking forward to a new protagonist and a new story.So much so that i want hawke to appear to make up for the loss of exalted march.
The choices made at the start of the game with regards to your class should have affected not only which sibling makes the journey to kirkwall, but also affected Aveline and Wesley. He could have given a different perspective on the Templar/Mage situation. Choices made earlier in game should have mattered and come back to haunt you in later acts. Good example of this is Conner in Origins, Who you could save our kill by your hand or his mothers and more interesting you could make a deal with the desire demon, who would be back years down the road for him. To have had a story like this play out over the course of DA 2 would have being something.Lets say for example Conner was Bethanys age and the two become lovers and because of the deal you made with the demon earlier on it comes back for him and it completely destroys Hawkes relationship with Bethany, Just something that could have given the story a bit more substance and bite.
Male characters and Male Li need to be on an equal footing with the Women, as the vast majority of male characters are a hopless bunch.Thank the maker for paragon of manlyness Varric.
The voiced protagonist was a good move the only down side is you can become very attached to the protagonist and if they are not going to carry on like shepard, then its disappointing when you lack closure at the end of the game and want them back. So in some respects the mute protagonist is better because if they are going to be around for single game i never miss them at the end, good example of this is The Warden or any PC in Skyrim or Fallout. I made a seamless transition from the mute warden to a very lively Lady Hawke.The Male version of Hawke was hard work to like, he always reminded me of the late Brian Wilde's character Foggy in the BBC Tv series 'Last of the Summer Wine'and with the world not being all that different if Hawke is a man, its a version of the protagonist i rarely bother with so i really need some reason to play the game as a different gender.In Mass Effect 2 it was Miranda Lawson unzipping her top only reason i would play the game as the sinister male version of Shepard, some of his facial expressions are just creepy, i would hope for a better reason in DA I to play as the male protagonist. In Origins Morrigan was only interested in a male warden simple thing to make me want to play the game as a male character. So i look to the Li within DA 2 to colour my experience of the game and with only the differences being in dialogue, its an area that needs some variety if possible.
The pace of combat was a hell of a lot faster than Origins. First couple of goes i would forget to even bother to use grenades or poison weapons, I would get swept into a maelstrom much like Hawke does later in the game. At least the will was there to do a different story as you could hardly have Hawke flee the blight and go to Kirkwall and one year later guess what the darkspawn are back and Hawke gets recruited into the grey wardens by Duncan, who like leliana has got better after being killed.Hawke than goes on and stops the archdemon.The game really should have had a longer title to show it was taking a different direction from origins for example Dragon Age 2: Kirwall should have being the title.Another 11 months in development would have helped a lot a so the game should have being hitting the shelves march 2012.
With the amount of people who wanted the warden back would a fixed protagonist for a couple of games be a good move?.It would spare some problems for fans like the disappearing PCs.Like Hawke or not i could see more potential in this character to develop like shepard than i could with the 16 versions of the mute Warden you could have being in DA: O and DA: A.Having spent 12 months with both games i do consider myself that rarest of beasts a fan of both games not a hater.
The choices made at the start of the game with regards to your class should have affected not only which sibling makes the journey to kirkwall, but also affected Aveline and Wesley. He could have given a different perspective on the Templar/Mage situation. Choices made earlier in game should have mattered and come back to haunt you in later acts. Good example of this is Conner in Origins, Who you could save our kill by your hand or his mothers and more interesting you could make a deal with the desire demon, who would be back years down the road for him. To have had a story like this play out over the course of DA 2 would have being something.Lets say for example Conner was Bethanys age and the two become lovers and because of the deal you made with the demon earlier on it comes back for him and it completely destroys Hawkes relationship with Bethany, Just something that could have given the story a bit more substance and bite.
Male characters and Male Li need to be on an equal footing with the Women, as the vast majority of male characters are a hopless bunch.Thank the maker for paragon of manlyness Varric.
The voiced protagonist was a good move the only down side is you can become very attached to the protagonist and if they are not going to carry on like shepard, then its disappointing when you lack closure at the end of the game and want them back. So in some respects the mute protagonist is better because if they are going to be around for single game i never miss them at the end, good example of this is The Warden or any PC in Skyrim or Fallout. I made a seamless transition from the mute warden to a very lively Lady Hawke.The Male version of Hawke was hard work to like, he always reminded me of the late Brian Wilde's character Foggy in the BBC Tv series 'Last of the Summer Wine'and with the world not being all that different if Hawke is a man, its a version of the protagonist i rarely bother with so i really need some reason to play the game as a different gender.In Mass Effect 2 it was Miranda Lawson unzipping her top only reason i would play the game as the sinister male version of Shepard, some of his facial expressions are just creepy, i would hope for a better reason in DA I to play as the male protagonist. In Origins Morrigan was only interested in a male warden simple thing to make me want to play the game as a male character. So i look to the Li within DA 2 to colour my experience of the game and with only the differences being in dialogue, its an area that needs some variety if possible.
The pace of combat was a hell of a lot faster than Origins. First couple of goes i would forget to even bother to use grenades or poison weapons, I would get swept into a maelstrom much like Hawke does later in the game. At least the will was there to do a different story as you could hardly have Hawke flee the blight and go to Kirkwall and one year later guess what the darkspawn are back and Hawke gets recruited into the grey wardens by Duncan, who like leliana has got better after being killed.Hawke than goes on and stops the archdemon.The game really should have had a longer title to show it was taking a different direction from origins for example Dragon Age 2: Kirwall should have being the title.Another 11 months in development would have helped a lot a so the game should have being hitting the shelves march 2012.
With the amount of people who wanted the warden back would a fixed protagonist for a couple of games be a good move?.It would spare some problems for fans like the disappearing PCs.Like Hawke or not i could see more potential in this character to develop like shepard than i could with the 16 versions of the mute Warden you could have being in DA: O and DA: A.Having spent 12 months with both games i do consider myself that rarest of beasts a fan of both games not a hater.
Modifié par XM-417, 15 décembre 2012 - 10:57 .
#42
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 08:51
sparkleav
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Do not over simplify gameplay to adapt to people who play on consoles. To many RPG elements from DA:O were simplified, customization was almost non existant.
Modifié par sparkleav, 14 décembre 2012 - 08:53 .
#43
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 09:50
Fraq Hound
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Hmm, okay:
1. New Characters (No returning companions, no cameos)
2. New Locations
3. New Dilemma (No more Mage vs. Templar, No more Darkspawn)
4. Longer development cycle (Maybe don't re-use the same environment eleventy-billion times!)
5. Brighter levels with more color (So sick of trekking through stone corridors).
6. More story and less mediocre combat (I play your games to meet interesting characters and hear well written stories. If I want a game with amazing action combat then I'll go buy God of War or Ninja Gaiden. Why are you trying to sell me something I don't want?)
7. More companion customization. (Preferably companion loot drops like in DA:O. Options that are visually unique! I don't want the same armor with just different colors or armor that is only slightly different. Also I'm not interested in DLC outfits that are released 3 months after I finish the game! Ship them or don't bother.
8. Don't launch with game breaking bugs! (Every game has bugs, it's inevitable! I'm not expecting a bug free game. However, the big bugs like those present in DA2 and ME3 are just unacceptable! A bug that makes scenes in the game play out of order?! That's huge! How the heck can you ship with that?! A bug that makes the facial import, one of the MAJOR hooks for the entire series not function! Well that's just laughably unacceptable! WTF!)
9. CREATE AN ACTUAL ENDING. Then ship it with the actual game, on day one. ( I cannot believe it has to be said but since your last two games didn't ship with endings then it obviously does. Stories are meant to have a beginning, a middle, and an end! I learned that during bedtime stories when I was three years old. I don't know why a company of adults needs to be taught that but there ya go, free lesson for you.)
1. New Characters (No returning companions, no cameos)
2. New Locations
3. New Dilemma (No more Mage vs. Templar, No more Darkspawn)
4. Longer development cycle (Maybe don't re-use the same environment eleventy-billion times!)
5. Brighter levels with more color (So sick of trekking through stone corridors).
6. More story and less mediocre combat (I play your games to meet interesting characters and hear well written stories. If I want a game with amazing action combat then I'll go buy God of War or Ninja Gaiden. Why are you trying to sell me something I don't want?)
7. More companion customization. (Preferably companion loot drops like in DA:O. Options that are visually unique! I don't want the same armor with just different colors or armor that is only slightly different. Also I'm not interested in DLC outfits that are released 3 months after I finish the game! Ship them or don't bother.
8. Don't launch with game breaking bugs! (Every game has bugs, it's inevitable! I'm not expecting a bug free game. However, the big bugs like those present in DA2 and ME3 are just unacceptable! A bug that makes scenes in the game play out of order?! That's huge! How the heck can you ship with that?! A bug that makes the facial import, one of the MAJOR hooks for the entire series not function! Well that's just laughably unacceptable! WTF!)
9. CREATE AN ACTUAL ENDING. Then ship it with the actual game, on day one. ( I cannot believe it has to be said but since your last two games didn't ship with endings then it obviously does. Stories are meant to have a beginning, a middle, and an end! I learned that during bedtime stories when I was three years old. I don't know why a company of adults needs to be taught that but there ya go, free lesson for you.)
#44
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 10:12
Complistic
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I really don't think there's anything bioware can do that will change my mind on the series.
If they continue to think DA2 was in any way improved from Origins, they've just not making games for me anymore.
I still get a little upset when I think about how they thought DA2 was a respectable $60 product.
If they continue to think DA2 was in any way improved from Origins, they've just not making games for me anymore.
I still get a little upset when I think about how they thought DA2 was a respectable $60 product.
Modifié par Complistic, 14 décembre 2012 - 10:17 .
#45
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 10:44
chasemme
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Complistic wrote...
I really don't think there's anything bioware can do that will change my mind on the series.
If they continue to think DA2 was in any way improved from Origins, they've just not making games for me anymore.
I still get a little upset when I think about how they thought DA2 was a respectable $60 product.
Kinda agree with the first and second line here. I understand how the game was an improvement to some, but DA2 was just not the kind of game I wanted to play. Mass Effect gave me my faster combat in exchange for some of the deeper RPG elements it left out, DA:O was the other side of the coin and was an amazing experience as well.
DA2 just handled both aspects in ways the turned me off to the series. If DA3 stays more on the path DA2 took, I can't see it being more fun than just replaying the ME trilogy. If it goes closer to its roots, I get the feeling DA:O will still be a superior game with much more to offer me still (I've only played it once all the way through.)
I won't bash Bioware for their direction with this series, I just don't think it's for me anymore.
Edit: I would like to qualify this all by saying that I think Bioware is capable of surprising me and making a game I'll throw money at them for. I'm just cautious, is all.
Modifié par chasemme, 14 décembre 2012 - 10:46 .
#46
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 10:53
The Spirit of Dance
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Party banter about how the caves around kirkwall all look the same. :happy:
#47
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 10:54
abaris
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Complistic wrote...
If they continue to think DA2 was in any way improved from Origins, they've just not making games for me anymore.
I'm very cautious about the series, but I don't think they still think DAII was an improvement. Question is only what lessons they learned and if these lessons coincide with my tastes.
#48
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 11:01
HTTP 404
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sparkleav wrote...
Do not over simplify gameplay to adapt to people who play on consoles. To many RPG elements from DA:O were simplified, customization was almost non existant.
what does that have to do with consoles? RPG elements? is there a rule book I don't know about?
I do agree that more customization is always a plus.
#49
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 11:19
Shadow Fox
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Do we really need another thread for people to **** about Dragon Age 2?
#50
Posté 14 décembre 2012 - 11:28
d4eaming
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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Do we really need another thread for people to **** about Dragon Age 2?
You'd think with all the hate-on people have for it that they'd give up, since DA staff has said they are keeping a lot of the elements they're stroking their hate-on to. If you're that momumentally miserable with a game series, then go find another one.
