210 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

chasemme wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Do we really need another thread for people to **** about Dragon Age 2?

You'd think with all the hate-on people have for it that they'd give up, since DA staff has said they are keeping a lot of the elements they're stroking their hate-on to. If you're that momumentally miserable with a game series, then go find another one.

Hm. I didn't notice hate. The stuff seemed moderately constructive. My post wasn't, but I didn't feel like there was a lot of hate spewed about in it, either.

Topic seems reasonable, and the responses also seem that way. "Haters" just appeared in the title. It's similar to the "what do you want to see" thread, just targeted at people who weren't satisfied with DA2 rather than the whole population.

Not really necessary to just pop into a topic and post based on what you think is going on.

I think the wording of the title completely changes the context of the thread, especially the incredibly self-entitled notion that Bioware need to "redeem" themselves, as if no game company anywhere has ever before made a product that didn't necessarily appeal to every single member of their fanbase.

The way people act on this forum, you'd think Bioware employees had personally stormed into their houses and killed their pets.

Its a thread trying to gather information. Whether Bioware uses it, whether it genrates entertaining conversation or whether it just satisfies the OP's original curiosity, it doesn't really matter. 

Let's phrase a theoretical thread in the same naming convention:

"DA:2 Lovers - What could DA:3 do to turn you off on the series forever?"

If you respond with "nothing, I love Bioware games and will continue loving them, even if they change direction" that's pretty much the opposite side of the coin of people saying "nothing will redeem Bioware, I've been hurt too many times." If you respond with "if Bioware did away with romances, please don't do this Bioware, you would crush my feelings" then that's not all that dissimilar from someone saying "please bring back a non-voiced protagonist, it crushes my ability to make my own character."

Except, you know, the chances of Bioware re-adopting a silent PC, especially in tangent to the likelihood of them abandoning romances, is pretty much on the realm of impossibility.

The label DA2 haters came from DA2's passionate defenders. The oft-quoted "haters gonna hate." Well, if the defenders are going to call people who saw serious flaws with DA2's design as haters, but then get upset when a thread is asking said haters what they would like to see for the next game in the series to get them off the "hater" wagon... well, I think defenders of DA2 could be seeing enemies in the shadows after having a knee-jerk reaction on the BSN so long.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 décembre 2012 - 05:28 .

[Celene II]

1. More area (i believe this is done)
It should have far more land to go thru, more maps, more different terrain, different buildings and caves.

2. Companions need to be able to change gear so that I can make my tank, tank worthy my way not Bioware's way

3. They need to increase the metrics of progression. They removed too much of the RPG elements to bring in action gamers. They need to return those or get new ones. Return skills to the mix, dont go to 1 specialization or create new things to gain by leveling up like advantages or perks

4. They need far more passives for each active and far fewer sustained abilities.

5. The game needs more advance character creation, if you only letting me play one race - doesnt matter to me if you are - i should be able to have a 4 foot tall to 7 foot tall player, a 16 year old to a 80 year old, a kate moss wannabe or a a muscular behemoth.

6. Armor and Clothing - The first thing PC modders do for DAO and DA2 is create about 100 new outfits. Its almost always the first thing done by modders. Why do the console players suffer from 4 robes for mages when modders crank out 20 in a few months

7. Combat should be about the following in descending order

a. How you built your character/companions - attributes, skills, spells, talents, etc
b. How you equipped your character/companions - gear, armor, weapons,
c. How well you use your spells and talents during a fight.
d. How you positions your characters in relation to the enemies (chokepoints, elevation etc)

z. How fast you push the A button

[Plaintiff]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

chasemme wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Do we really need another thread for people to **** about Dragon Age 2?

You'd think with all the hate-on people have for it that they'd give up, since DA staff has said they are keeping a lot of the elements they're stroking their hate-on to. If you're that momumentally miserable with a game series, then go find another one.

Hm. I didn't notice hate. The stuff seemed moderately constructive. My post wasn't, but I didn't feel like there was a lot of hate spewed about in it, either.

Topic seems reasonable, and the responses also seem that way. "Haters" just appeared in the title. It's similar to the "what do you want to see" thread, just targeted at people who weren't satisfied with DA2 rather than the whole population.

Not really necessary to just pop into a topic and post based on what you think is going on.

I think the wording of the title completely changes the context of the thread, especially the incredibly self-entitled notion that Bioware need to "redeem" themselves, as if no game company anywhere has ever before made a product that didn't necessarily appeal to every single member of their fanbase.

The way people act on this forum, you'd think Bioware employees had personally stormed into their houses and killed their pets.

Its a thread trying to gather information. Whether Bioware uses it, whether it genrates entertaining conversation or whether it just satisfies the OP's original curiosity, it doesn't really matter. 

Let's phrase a theoretical thread in the same naming convention:

"DA:2 Lovers - What could DA:3 do to turn you off on the series forever?"

If you respond with "nothing, I love Bioware games and will continue loving them, even if they change direction" that's pretty much the opposite side of the coin of people saying "nothing will redeem Bioware, I've been hurt too many times." If you respond with "if Bioware did away with romances, please don't do this Bioware, you would crush my feelings" then that's not all that dissimilar from someone saying "please bring back a non-voiced protagonist, it crushes my ability to make my own character."

Except, you know, the chances of Bioware re-adopting a silent PC, especially in tangent to the likelihood of them abandoning romances, is pretty much on the realm of impossibility.

The label DA2 haters came from DA2's passionate defenders. The oft-quoted "haters gonna hate." Well, if the defenders are going to call people who saw serious flaws with DA2's design as haters, but then get upset when a thread is asking said haters what they would like to see for the next game in the series to get them off the "hater" wagon... well, I think defenders of DA2 could be seeing enemies in the shadows after having a knee-jerk reaction on the BSN so long.

Then the title should be re-worded to be less provocative, and more welcoming. There are people who can rationally discuss what they perceive as the "flaws" of DA2 without falling to their knees and cursing its release as the day that darkened the sky forever and caused rivers to run red with the blood of infants. The notion of "haters" and "lovers" is a false dichotomy and the continued use of these labels only causes more enmity on the forums, rather than producing rational discussion or viable solutions.

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

I think the wording of the title completely changes the context of the thread, especially the incredibly self-entitled notion that Bioware need to "redeem" themselves, as if no game company anywhere has ever before made a product that didn't necessarily appeal to every single member of their fanbase.

The way people act on this forum, you'd think Bioware employees had personally stormed into their houses and killed their pets.

I'm so tired of seeing "entitled" constantly lobbed at anyone who dares express a negative opinion about a video game. It's a petty way to try to discredit dissenting opinions. It has nothing to do with entitlement. We're paying customers. We're entitled to getting what we paid for and if we feel we didn't then we have a right to voice as much. $60 is not a meaningless sum, video games aren't exempt from expectations of quality and it's not self-entitlement to expect your money's worth.

[Saintthanksgiving]

My hamster did mysteriously perish shortly after I purchased DA2. I suppose he could have died of boredom, his cage being so close to my monitor.

Never considered foul play until now...

[chasemme]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

chasemme wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Do we really need another thread for people to **** about Dragon Age 2?

You'd think with all the hate-on people have for it that they'd give up, since DA staff has said they are keeping a lot of the elements they're stroking their hate-on to. If you're that momumentally miserable with a game series, then go find another one.

Hm. I didn't notice hate. The stuff seemed moderately constructive. My post wasn't, but I didn't feel like there was a lot of hate spewed about in it, either.

Topic seems reasonable, and the responses also seem that way. "Haters" just appeared in the title. It's similar to the "what do you want to see" thread, just targeted at people who weren't satisfied with DA2 rather than the whole population.

Not really necessary to just pop into a topic and post based on what you think is going on.

I think the wording of the title completely changes the context of the thread, especially the incredibly self-entitled notion that Bioware need to "redeem" themselves, as if no game company anywhere has ever before made a product that didn't necessarily appeal to every single member of their fanbase.

The way people act on this forum, you'd think Bioware employees had personally stormed into their houses and killed their pets.

Its a thread trying to gather information. Whether Bioware uses it, whether it genrates entertaining conversation or whether it just satisfies the OP's original curiosity, it doesn't really matter. 

Let's phrase a theoretical thread in the same naming convention:

"DA:2 Lovers - What could DA:3 do to turn you off on the series forever?"

If you respond with "nothing, I love Bioware games and will continue loving them, even if they change direction" that's pretty much the opposite side of the coin of people saying "nothing will redeem Bioware, I've been hurt too many times." If you respond with "if Bioware did away with romances, please don't do this Bioware, you would crush my feelings" then that's not all that dissimilar from someone saying "please bring back a non-voiced protagonist, it crushes my ability to make my own character."

Except, you know, the chances of Bioware re-adopting a silent PC, especially in tangent to the likelihood of them abandoning romances, is pretty much on the realm of impossibility.

The label DA2 haters came from DA2's passionate defenders. The oft-quoted "haters gonna hate." Well, if the defenders are going to call people who saw serious flaws with DA2's design as haters, but then get upset when a thread is asking said haters what they would like to see for the next game in the series to get them off the "hater" wagon... well, I think defenders of DA2 could be seeing enemies in the shadows after having a knee-jerk reaction on the BSN so long.

Then the title should be re-worded to be less provocative, and more welcoming. There are people who can rationally discuss what they perceive as the "flaws" of DA2 without falling to their knees and cursing its release as the day that darkened the sky forever and caused rivers to run red with the blood of infants. The notion of "haters" and "lovers" is a false dichotomy and the continued use of these labels only causes more enmity on the forums, rather than producing rational discussion or viable solutions.

Why? The conversation was fine regardless of the topic title. It got railroaded when people came in to bash those having the discussion. You guys made an issue from nothing, and now a reasonable topic is reduced into some petty argument over how the title SHOULD have been worded.

[Plaintiff]

BasilKarlo wrote...
I'm so tired of seeing "entitled" constantly lobbed at anyone who dares express a negative opinion about a video game.

It's a good thing, then, that I only apply the term when it's appropriate. Not thaat I did not say that anyone in the thread was behaving in a way that can be construed as "entitled", merely that the title conveys an attitude of entitlement with its deliberately provocative wording, regardless of whether or not that attiude is present in any individual posts.

It's a petty way to try to discredit dissenting opinions.

The opinions of the entitled discredit themselves.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. We're paying customers. We're entitled to getting what we paid for and if we feel we didn't then we have a right to voice as much.

A customer in a restaurant has a right to complain to the management if he feels his meal is unsatisfactory. He does not get to rant and rave and demand that the restaurant "redeem" itself by changing their menu to fit his exact specifications. That customer gets thrown out.

$60 is not a meaningless sum, video games aren't exempt from expectations of quality and it's not self-entitlement to expect your money's worth.

If there were an objective standard of quality by which videogames can be fairly judged, you might have a point. But there's not, so you don't. Whether or not you got your "money's worth" is purely down to personal taste. No product will please everybody and the odds are that any and every game company you are a frequent customer of will let you down sooner or later, and on multiple occasions.

I wil reiterate that I categorically did not state that the opinions of poster's in this thread are "entitled". I was merely suggesting that if posters take umbrage at the fact that their posts are taken as "hatred", they probably shouldn't have posted in a thread that explicitly declares itself to be for "haters", and that the thread itself might be taken more seriously if the title was reworded to be less provocative.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'd prefer the discussion to revolve mostly around the topic (which, while perhaps worded in a way that makes it more aggressive sounding, isn't actually that bad).

As long as you don't come in to just trash the crap and in general just be ostensibly negative and disrespectful, I don't really care. It's just another type of 'What improvements would I like to see in DA3' thread.


It's a thread that can easily be avoided, however, based upon the usage of the words in the title. At best, consider a place for all the contrary opinions to fester away from those that might otherwise start tossing mud!

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

The opinions of the entitled discredit themselves.

That doesn't make any sense, even if one were to concede that people complaining about a game are self-entitled.

A customer in a restaurant has a right to complain to the management if he feels his meal is unsatisfactory. He does not get to rant and rave and demand that the restaurant "redeem" itself by changing their menu to fit his exact specifications. That customer gets thrown out.

This is a stupid comparison. If I go to a restaurant, get served a terrible meal and am told "you can't have a refund because the quality of the food is subjective" then it might be a valid comparison of the 2. And either way I would be free to tell people about my bad experience at said restaurant. at any time.

If there were an objective standard of quality by which videogames can be fairly judged, you might have a point. But there's not, so you don't.

Again, this is stupid. Of course it comes down to our opinions. No one is suggesting otherwise.

[Allan Schumacher]

Since I didn't want to be bothered to remove posts prior to my previous message, I'd prefer this to be the "last word" and if you'd like to continue the discussion to please take it to PMs.

[Plaintiff]

chasemme wrote...
Why? The conversation was fine regardless of the topic title. It got railroaded when people came in to bash those having the discussion. You guys made an issue from nothing, and now a reasonable topic is reduced into some petty argument over how the title SHOULD have been worded.

"You guys"? I have not participated in this discussion before now, or even read half the posts in it, because the thread  explicitly declares itself to be for "haters", and I do not consider myself to be one, so my opinion is obviously not wanted or needed.

I was merely making the observation that if individual posters didn't want to be labelled as "haters", and wanted their opinions to be taken seriously by other posters who might oppose them, they should've perhaps considered posting in a thread with a less confrontational title.

If the thread is not really for "haters", and the posters in it do not think of themselves as "haters" and they do not want their posts to be misconstrued as "hate", then maybe the title should be changed.

Labels exist for a reason. If I see a door marked "Elephants", then how is it my fault for assuming that the room behind it is exclusively for elephants when it is in fact for penguins? Why is the "Penguin" room not clearly labelled as such? If the room is for both elephants and penguins, then why is that not clarified for the sake of the penguins, who are having trouble finding their room?

[AshenShug4r]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

 Bring back the Auto attack.  I would love to see a move back towards the original combat system, but inspite of all of that BRING BACK AUTO ATTACK!!!!

auto-attack never left

[xsdob]

JasonPogo wrote...

No more ninja jumping rogues

Silent protaganist (i know this is a no go but would help alot)

Bring back roll playing. I want to play my character.

I can help with that. Just put your TV on mute whenever you pick a dialouge option. Boom, silent protaganist right there.

[Steppenwolf]

AshenShug4r wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

 Bring
back the Auto attack.  I would love to see a move back towards the
original combat system, but inspite of all of that
BRING BACK AUTO ATTACK!!!!

auto-attack never left

It wasn't originally in the console versions of DA2. It was added in later with a patch. A lot of people never realized that it got added in because it's set to off by default.

Modifié par BasilKarlo, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:30 .

[LTD]

Well, I'm not an unreasonable man. If DA3 would open with a sincere, literal appology for DA2, I would find it in me to forgive them. It would be a nice move. You know, way BG1 opens up with Nietzsche quote.  DA3 could do something similar. Only, instead of Nietzsche, they could quote themselves. Saying how sorry they are. About DA2.  It doesn't even have to be some Churchillian example of statesmanly oratory and speechwriting. It doesn't have to be anything epic. Just small, simple, beautiful appology. " DA2 was utter sh!t. We are really sorry about it" That'd be all it takes. Hell,I'd buy this as DLC for my DA2.

Modifié par LTD, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Madmoe77]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

Madmoe77 wrote...

Bioware should go bold or go home! Not something sudden like Anders blowing up a chantry but something real to the war. Having a mage burned at the stake! Not just any mage but someone important that we know and someone from the old game reacting to it for effect:

1) Morrigan burns at the stake while Alistair begs to put her out.

Hahahaaa! I'd love to see any human, no matter how doped up on lyrium they are or even if they have an inverted sword on their armor, attempt to put a daughter of Flemeth to the stake. They themselves will probably be subjected to the pain of 1,000 burning stakes for their effort.

But I like your other scenarios.

Haha thanks! But how they captured a witch of the wilds would only make the story richer! I thought I would offer up some creative ideas rather than just the repetitive things that always get thrown out there. To be entirely honest I am not a DA2 hater, I ignored the title and went with the OP's loose invitation to rally some ideas and suggestions.

[Necrotron]

As long as it does everything the prior games did and just gets rid of the DAII over the top everything-explodes-when-your-sword-slices-it goofy graphics, I think I'm set.

Personally, I understand game development is expensive (so I didn't particularly mind the reused assets). I didn't particularly like the 'incomplete' story of DAII, but even that, I understood was just a setup for DAIII.

Modifié par Bathaius, 15 décembre 2012 - 09:52 .

[Vilegrim]

get rid of 'awesome' flailing combat and button mashing, give the characters more agency (seriously the amount of poorly handled 'but thou must' was irritating at best, and not being able to call people of the rampant idiocy that was building just defied belief, the cival war was so obviously building, and Hawke can say nothing about it, no slapping Patrice, no calling Meredith on being a totalitarian loon, no telling Orsini to clean up his act, nothing)

[frankf43]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The opinions of the entitled discredit themselves.

That doesn't make any sense, even if one were to concede that people complaining about a game are self-entitled.

A customer in a restaurant has a right to complain to the management if he feels his meal is unsatisfactory. He does not get to rant and rave and demand that the restaurant "redeem" itself by changing their menu to fit his exact specifications. That customer gets thrown out.

This is a stupid comparison. If I go to a restaurant, get served a terrible meal and am told "you can't have a refund because the quality of the food is subjective" then it might be a valid comparison of the 2. And either way I would be free to tell people about my bad experience at said restaurant. at any time.

If there were an objective standard of quality by which videogames can be fairly judged, you might have a point. But there's not, so you don't.

Again, this is stupid. Of course it comes down to our opinions. No one is suggesting otherwise.

But if you stood in the lobby of the restaurant and started shouting baseless insults about the food to everyone who would listen you would expect to be ejected.

This forum is BSN's virtual lobby
I feel that while our criticism is constructive and helpful it is accepted and appreciated. If on the other had we’re here just to bash or flame  the game and have no positive input to what we would like to see in game then why should they want that on a forum that is an advert for their coming game?

[TMZuk]

Well.

For me the simple solution is: Forget DA2 and look to DA:O for inspiration. DA:O is a game I rate with an 8 on a scale from 1 to 10, whereas DA2... the few hours I was able to play it, I rate it around 3.

But DA:O wasn't perfect. One thing I did like about DA2, horrible execution aside, was that the protagonist did not have to save the world. I'm tired of saviour characters.

I'd like to compare with a game from around the same period: Fallout: New Vegas. That to me was close to a perfect game. There was exploration, combat could be sneaked around, a great many situations could be solved with diplomacy or other skills, it had funny companions and NPCs, solid voice-acting and... most importanly... You could play as a vile bastard, a true hero or an opportunistic scoundrel. And it would matter.

What lacked in FO:NV was the intimacy with the companions and the epic moments that was the trademark of DA:O. Romance and truly living and breathing characters, that's the main strength of Bioware. The use of cutscenes is another, although that was overdone in ME3.

So, a fantasy game with the features from Fallout: New Vegas, populated with characters akin to those from DA:O, and epic cutscenes to aid the atmosphere. That is the game I dream off.

And no, that isn't Skyrim, because Skyrim is utterly lacking in agency, urgency and in interesting characters. Skyrim is a huge sandbox populated with utterly forgetable characters. Pretty, but hollow and empty.

On the other hand, if we get another linear action adventure, similar to the last three titles from Bioware, then I'll skip it. Luckily, there are other games in development that looks promising, so I can afford to be picky.

Modifié par TMZuk, 15 décembre 2012 - 12:29 .

[Fast Jimmy]

frankf43 wrote...

But if you stood in the lobby of the restaurant and started shouting baseless insults about the food to everyone who would listen you would expect to be ejected.

This forum is BSN's virtual lobby
I feel that while our criticism is constructive and helpful it is accepted and appreciated. If on the other had we’re here just to bash or flame  the game and have no positive input to what we would like to see in game then why should they want that on a forum that is an advert for their coming game?

No one is forced to pass through the forum to buy the next Bioware game. Most of these forum sections are locked strictly for people who have bought the game already and had it registered. 

If Bioware hosted a forum section at, say, Amazon.com or through Origin's software, I could possibly see this being true. But no potential customer is going to be corralled into the BSN and "exposed" to any opinions, good or bad, as part of their normal buying experience.


If the BSN really wants (and succeeds at) getting rid of all the people who have anything bad to say, it will become a totally unreliable joke of a site. Being a member of the BSN should not be a cult, where we all feel and believe the same thing. This thread has done a good job of discussing desired features for DA3 fromt fans who were less than pleased with DA2's final product in a polite, logical and constructive way.

If you loved DA2 and only have negative things to say about those who didn't, LEAVE THIS THREAD... please. Or comment on some of the suggestions being made in a similarly constructive manner. Otherwise, you are just derailing an otherwise civil and decent discussion.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 décembre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
As for the question itself, what can DA:3 do that will make you forgive BW for your experience of DA:2 and also forget about it?

I just want to play my own character and affect the story until the end. That's I why a choose  RPG with character creation in the first place.

I don't want to be told a story by third person narrator. I have enough of that in almost every other games. I'm so sick and tired of it. I just want to journey the world and story through my character's eyes. I want to feel how my character feel. I want to think how my character would think, without developer's ruining everything by showing contradictionary cinematic facial expression, emotion, generic bad acting of two-goody-shoe character and stupid PC who never seem to be affected by any tragedies for long!. Just leave my PC alone or simply  allow me to toggle between first person camera view and third person camera view like TES does. I know frostbite 2 engine is capable to do that. 

[Felya87]

Another thing, purely tecnic, I'd like. Not a priority, but...can the subtitles made a little bigger? I know there are mods for that, but playng on cosolle I can't benefit of those...
DA isn't voiced in Italian, so I'm stuck at read the subtitles, because sometimes dialogue are too fast for my english. and for those people who have a small tv is quite a nightmare for the eyes.

subtles I can read without being stuck at the tv would be an improvement...still wouldn't be the thing that make me buy the game with joy, but would help.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

AGREED. I feel like there is a conspiracy in the gaming world to make subtitle text as impossible to read as humanly possible. It's absolutely mind boggling why this has been made the standard.

[PinkysPain]

A toolset ... hell I'd buy DA2 if it had a toolset ...

PS. don't take away from that that I pirated DA2 BTW ... I simply watched sections on youtube, I saw the trainwreck coming from miles away ... they blindsided me with ME3, luckily the multiplayer saved that.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 15 décembre 2012 - 06:54 .