210 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLastAwakening]

To redeem itself I would love the combat to be a mixture between origin and DA II, but more of a return to origin. Unfortunately, the developers are not in my head. So, I would settle for a great story and gameplay.

<.<
Randomized gear stats, etc~ME1
Templar gear
Continuity
Spell combos (maybe I'm the only one that plays all mages w/tank.)
Branching skill system.

Or Great multiplayer which would make up for everything .

[Estelindis]

Personally, I liked the majority of DA2 very much. There were things I didn't like, but I believe that some of these are already on record as getting dev attention in DA3 (e.g. ruinous amount of area repetition). I personally suspect that the dev choice in DA2 (re. area reuse) was between reusing areas for new quests and not having many new quests at all, but that's just me. I feel that a way to deal with that would be using a tileset system for interior areas like in Neverwinter Nights. Each tileset needs a fair bit of development, but, once made, they are incredibly versatile. (Also, a good bit of work could be saved while still keeping some variety in appearance if some of these tilesets were retextured for reuse along different themes. The most work with tilesets, in my experience, is the geometry: making the models, making the walkmesh, and mapping textures on.)

The second thing I really don't want to see again is the situation at the end of the game where you fought Orsino and Meredith regardless of what you'd done throughout the game. Maybe the writers feel differently about this and would think many of us are missing the point here, but I just don't see how it makes any sense for Orsino to turn into a monstrosity if we support him all the way and his side has every appearance of being about to win. Maybe it makes sense for Meredith regardless because she's been twisted by the lyrium idol, but a case could also be made that the support of the protagonist should have strengthened her. I'm not saying that one should be able to persuade Anders to not blow up the Chantry... Some characters have a strength of conviction that is beyond even the universe-shaking powers of a PC's persuasion! But I feel that some other choices could have mattered more in the final hours of the game. :-)

[adam32867]

i liked da2, but i was not fond of the dialog vs dao. its not that the main character is voiced its the wheel o dialog i felt a lot more in control of the character when i had like 5 things i could say to people and when i had the ability to talk to companions and delve into their past. i also think the next game would benefit from an epilogue

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Or how DA2 rectified that by giving us next to no control about when we could do missions or where we could go... And how missions would still stay in stasis, like Allistair waiting in the palace lobby while I went off to Orlais to do MotA!

That was really amazing. 

I know! It's almost like, rather than defending DA2, I was mocking the idea that DA:O is perfected. But it would be absurd for someone to think DA:O had any flaws at all, so obviously anything other than praise means a clear staking out of one's territory!

LTD wrote...

If anyone disagrees with this I'd encourage such person to spend 15 minutes browsing various video game communities all over the net. DA:O is generally speaking highly praised and fondly remembered. DA 2 on the other hand recieved, and keeps recieving, rather exceptional amount of hatred. People were insulted by it. 

I see your bluff and raise you RPG codex.

[Celene II]

Twisted Path wrote...

Honestly a game that's just like Origins with updated graphics, a new story and maybe an expanded color palette would be ideal. Origins was pretty much a perfect RPG, I don't see why Bioware had to try and fix what wasn't broke.

Money!

DAO is a niche game for hardcore RPG aficionado

Throw in some awesome twitch, remove some stats, some character choices, dont overwhelm people, with the messy RPG stuff and maybe we get a piece of that COD pie.

Doesnt work

No RPG ever is going to compete with the likes of Call of Duty  and the companies that make RPGs should accept it.

Skryim the game that DA is looking to for inspiration did very well but still cant touch that streamlined visceral FPS game.

Repeat after me Bioware

We make dang good RPGs, they are awesome, they will never sell 18 million units no matter how we try to broaden the fan base. We should just focus on making good RPGs.

[Zeta42]

An interesting story. Cool plot twists. A charismatic protagonist. Companions with their own stories to tell. Challenging (but not impossibru, like in Assassin's Creed) combat. No Mass Effect 3 style endings, but rather DA:O or NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer style. Gimmick boss fights (like Corypheus, I enjoyed it very much). And answering questions that have been hanging around for a while now. That's what I'd like to see in DA3 and what would make me love it.
P.S. And I actually liked the dialogue wheel in DA2. It was far superior to that in Mass Effect, with the whole "spacebar does everything" thing. It would be curious to see if Bioware could improve it even further.

Modifié par Zeta42, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

I bet Skyrim and Call of Duty does't get this much grief,and those games sucked....big time. Then again most people are idiots...

[XX-Pyro]

Better music. All else aside, get Lorne Balfe or Jesper Kyd. Seriously, Origins has a good theme, and DA2 had Rogue Heart. Can we please change direction in music? It isn't bad I enjoy it, but I feel a game like this could do so much better. Assassin's Creed does amazing in the department of music that fits the game perfectly, perhaps look there for inspiration.

EDIT: Lol at the post above mine. Both Skyrim and CoD games are fun, playing them doesn't make anyone an idiot, comments like yours do.

Modifié par XX-Pyro, 16 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Better music. All else aside, get Lorne Balfe or Jesper Kyd. Seriously, Origins has a good theme, and DA2 had Rogue Heart. Can we please change direction in music? It isn't bad I enjoy it, but I feel a game like this could do so much better. Assassin's Creed does amazing in the department of music that fits the game perfectly, perhaps look there for inspiration.

EDIT: Lol at the post above mine. Both Skyrim and CoD games are fun, playing them doesn't make anyone an idiot, comments like yours do.

I'll sell you both my copies for $ 2.00 right now.....

To each it's own I guess. But come on the things people are demanding are just flat out ridiculous...

[PinkysPain]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
I bet Skyrim and Call of Duty does't get this much grief,and those games sucked....big time. Then again most people are idiots...

You know what you can expect when you buy an Elder Scrolls game ... pretty graphics, big empty gameworld with mostly boring NPCs and quests ... they delivered more of the same with some improvement. It's not  for me either but they still delivered on realistic expectations story and game wise.

Bioware turned a new leaf in a lot of different ways (grim dark vs. optimism, cinematic vs. choice, reactive combat vs. pause combat etc) which is always going to offend part the fanbase ... if you try to implement all those changes while rushing games and having just plain poor writing ... well, you get this.

If DA2's combat had just been fast instead of using the wave mechanic ad nauseum and they had had enough content in the game they could have had their boring story, fixed protogaonist. awesome combat, lack of toolset etc etc. with only a fraction of the current ****storm.

If ME3 had just had an emotionally satisfying ending they could probably have gotten away with a game with mostly fetch quests, ass pull lame antagonists and and completely screwing over Legion ... because after ME2 the few people still pining for ME1 had already dialed their expectations way down any way and hell at least the combat improved and planet scanning was gone.

None of that happened though, they changed lots of fundamental tropes in both franchises WHILE making bad games ....

Modifié par PinkysPain, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[XX-Pyro]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Better music. All else aside, get Lorne Balfe or Jesper Kyd. Seriously, Origins has a good theme, and DA2 had Rogue Heart. Can we please change direction in music? It isn't bad I enjoy it, but I feel a game like this could do so much better. Assassin's Creed does amazing in the department of music that fits the game perfectly, perhaps look there for inspiration.

EDIT: Lol at the post above mine. Both Skyrim and CoD games are fun, playing them doesn't make anyone an idiot, comments like yours do.

I'll sell you both my copies for $ 2.00 right now.....

To each it's own I guess. But come on the things people are demanding are just flat out ridiculous...

When I have a half hour of free time or want to play with a friend why wouldn't I play CoD? Easy to get into, 10 minute games, out the door when I need to be. As for Skyrim it does get bland, but modding it and playing for an hour or two at a time every once in awhile still entertains me. And yes, the things people ask for are ridiculous, but criticism usually isn't a bad thing unless it's DA2 SUCKED TAKE DA2 MAKE OPPOSITE AND U MAKE GOOD GAME. That isn't criticism, that's honestly just a waste of the time of whoever wrote it.

[PinkDiamondstl]

Just give me a longer story-line ,better character customization for the ladies and pretty armor and I'm happy.

Modifié par PinkDiamondstl, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[termokanden]

DISCLAIMER: I don't hate DA2. I just had a lot of complaints.

- Less reuse of areas.
- Less "awesome" in combat. No backflips before firing arrows for example.
- No waves appearing out of thin air.
- Better balance: why were assassins so powerful compared to everything else?
- Perhaps just one blood mage who isn't evil or crazy. I don't remember any right now anyway, except for Hawke or the Warden.

- No multiplayer that is linked in *any* way to singleplayer.
- No microtransactions, except for substantial DLCs.
- No multiplayer at all would be preferable.

And the final one is controversial:

- No permanent stat bonuses to your character based on quest choices. The obsessive compulsive powergamers like myself will always pick the same options every time

Modifié par termokanden, 16 décembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[Dutchess]

Weskerr wrote...

Oh ok, that makes sense. Certainly, however, as you pointed out, using craziness as a motivation in writing is not always bad. It depends on the story. I think you're referring to using it as a sort of deus ex machina,  which is bad writing whatever the motivation is for using it.

Not always, no, but it is when it seems to be the only reason for every antagonistic character:
- Bartrand
- Tarohne the bloodmage in Enemies Among Us
- Quentin
- Crazy Elf in Blackpowder Courtesy
- Arishok kinda goes crazy at the end of act 2. He certainly has a nervous breakdown. I liked this one though. The one time DA2 handled it well.
- More crazy blood mages: Huon and the other lady.
- Grace goes crazy in act 3: the champion and the hostage must die even though they helped me before!!! Waaaahhh!!!
- Anders. Not a huge fan of this, but his reason for insanity was developed well enough.
- Orsino. Absolutely awful when you sided with the mages.
- Meredith.Red lyrium... again. Sigh.

All these people are involved in primary quests. You have to deal with them. They do things because they are/go crazy. It is ridiculous to have this many people be insane to justify their actions. It could only be explained by Kirkwall being secretly an asylum for lunatics and crazy Hawke and co are roleplaying with the other crazy people. 
Like I said, some were handled well and were believable. Especially the Arishok was good and the best antagonist DA2 delivered. Anders whole arc was about him spiralling into insanity, so at least enough time has been spent to make clear why he is losing himself.I think Quentin's backstory has merit as well, but for the rest.... no. Crazy just because.

[abaris]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I bet Skyrim and Call of Duty does't get this much grief,and those games sucked....big time. Then again most people are idiots...

They may suck, but their developers didn't forget about their audience. Their audience mostly gets what they came for, whereas DAII tried to garner a new one and obviously failed on the way.

Games are products and when you develop a product, the first thing to do is asking where the market might be and defining a target audience. If that target audience was supposed to be COD players, their market research did something seriously wrong, since a game like that can't possibly compete with the original.

[termokanden]

abaris wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I bet Skyrim and Call of Duty does't get this much grief,and those games sucked....big time. Then again most people are idiots...

They may suck, but their developers didn't forget about their audience. Their audience mostly gets what they came for, whereas DAII tried to garner a new one and obviously failed on the way.

Exactly. When you send obvious signals that you are not happy with your current audience and are desperate for a new one, that's not going to go over well with everyone.

Also, Skyrim doesn't suck and Call of Duty DOES get this much grief. It is pretty consistently blamed for everything here on these forums, to the point of absurdity and beyond.

Modifié par termokanden, 16 décembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[Gileadan]

 I'm not a hater of DA2, but I was very disappointed with it. I don't think that DA:I is about BioWare "redeeming" themselves in some way... but I expect it will be the moment when I decide whether I'm still part of the DA franchise's target audience or not.

Copy-paste environments, tedious wave-combat with exaggerated animations and a host of other flaws aside - I mostly play BioWare games for their stories and companions, not for the challenging tactical battles or stunning visuals. And when both the overall story, such as there was, and most of the companions leave me rather cold I'm having a problem with the game.

In my opinion, the prologue was a complete dud. Which is bad, because it's here that the game makes its first impression. The initial pacing seemed off to me, with the Hawke family desperately running from darkspawn first, then stopping for a little chat about running from darkspawn and finally running from darkspawn some more. The death of Hawke's sibling was badly executed, from the totally random and needless charge into the jaws of death to the poor dialogue options you were offered for Hawke's reaction to it. The feeling I got from that scene was something like "Oops, my sibling died. Well, bummer, I guess."   Two and a half minutes later we got genius paraphrases like "I want to be a dragon".  Right.

After Hawke reaches Kirkwall, a year passes and Hawke got to know people and "made a name" for themselves, but it all happens off-screen. Something as crucial as the protagonist's first exploration of their new home, their first actions there and the first acquaintances they make is a complete black box. We just get a few vague hints at the results. I felt like the game was driving home the point "Hawke is MY character, not yours" with all the subtlety of a frying pan to the face.

Then, the "meet Varric" cutscene. After talking about how important it is for them to make some money, the coin they have earned so far is stolen and Hawke's only reaction to it is a "hey!" and a few half-hearted steps. "Oops, all our savings just got stolen. Well, bummer, I guess."   I don't think I ever played another RPG where the protagonist gave me such a vibe of utterly lacking spirit as Hawke did.

I know it's a matter of taste, but for me, the overall story never recovered from this awful beginning.  The three acts actually felt like three separate minor stories, merely tied together by having the same protagonist and location. There was no overall purpose to keep the party together during the three years between acts, which in turn meant that rivalry made little sense. Why spend time with someone who antagonizes you at every turn when you don't share a goal that makes you work together?

Companion melodrama was also too high for my personal taste. The game had not one, but two sparkly emo boys with angsty romances, and the fact that not at least one of them looked like Robert Pattinson was a bit of a surprise. It made me wonder whether the game's authors felt that a high melodrama and emo quotient are a viable substitute for a strong overall story. 

So.

For DA:I, I want a strong story that keeps me invested in the game.  I want companions with interesting personalities. I'm fine with them having an issue or two, but I don't want to feel like half of their dialogue is complaining and whining about them. I want companions that seem like a good choice to bring along on an adventure, not a bunch of nursing cases in dire need of a few good sessions with a psycho-plumber. I want to play an adventurer, not a therapist.

Modifié par Gileadan, 16 décembre 2012 - 12:32 .

[Estelindis]

termokanden wrote...

And the final one is controversial:

- No permanent stat bonuses to your character based on quest choices. The obsessive compulsive powergamers like myself will always pick the same options every time

Controversial is right!  Sorry, but I think that your (apparent) inability to make the right roleplaying choices for your character because of some statistic incentive should not be Bioware's problem.  

[Fast Jimmy]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Just give me a longer story-line ,better character customization for the ladies and pretty armor and I'm happy.

So... A "DA: Let's Go to the Mall" game?

Requests for cosmetic things like this drive me crazy. How can you say in one post above that people are asking for ridiculous things in this thread, then turn around and make such a shallow, vain request? "I want my characters to be my pretty dress up doll" is a waste of resources. 

I'd much rather keep iconic appearances, where our companions and PC all look the same, all the time, while being able to switch out equipment that isn't shown cosmetically but does affect stas, and instead have extra zots to go to more story content, or deeper choice and consequences. 

[PinkDiamondstl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Just give me a longer story-line ,better character customization for the ladies and pretty armor and I'm happy.

So... A "DA: Let's Go to the Mall" game?

Requests for cosmetic things like this drive me crazy. How can you say in one post above that people are asking for ridiculous things in this thread, then turn around and make such a shallow, vain request? "I want my characters to be my pretty dress up doll" is a waste of resources. 

I'd much rather keep iconic appearances, where our companions and PC all look the same, all the time, while being able to switch out equipment that isn't shown cosmetically but does affect stas, and instead have extra zots to go to more story content, or deeper choice and consequences. 

Wow...no I don't wanna dress up a doll sir what I do want is for my ladies to look and act like ladies. Is that asking for too much? 

[Fast Jimmy]

In the history of warfare, in both our world and Thedas, women are more concerned with stating alive than making a fashion statement on the field of battle. A functional suit of chain mail that offers great protection but looks drab is much more preferable to a 'fabulous' decorative armor set that could get you killed.

[Felya87]

in a way, I can be with PinkDiamondstl, but not for an estetic reason...there where moments in DA2 where the chance to wear a more lady like drees would have been appreciated, like in the house. The dress wasn't bad, but I would have liked to change outfit, just like Shepard can in ME2 and ME3, when not wearing an armor. It fell strange have Hawke whear the same dress for something like...six, seven years? but the same can be said for all the companios...only Anders change a little the drees...after putting the bomb in the chantry.

In MotA, the female dress where ridiculus. Quite strange seeing Hawke and Tallis wearing pants, when all the ladyes around wear elegant drees...
I can understand that they needed to be able to run and all, but would't be better having the two girls just change dress after entering in the castle? a little as Shepard do in Kasumi's mission in ME2?

Modifié par Felya87, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:10 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Then again most people are idiots...

Woah, look at this badass here.

/sarcasm

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[termokanden]

Estelindis wrote...

termokanden wrote...

And the final one is controversial:

- No permanent stat bonuses to your character based on quest choices. The obsessive compulsive powergamers like myself will always pick the same options every time

Controversial is right!  Sorry, but I think that your (apparent) inability to make the right roleplaying choices for your character because of some statistic incentive should not be Bioware's problem.  

That one was a joke. Glad you enjoyed it!

[Estelindis]

termokanden wrote...

That one was a joke. Glad you enjoyed it!

I guess the joke's on me.