152 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm not optomistic. Honestly i'm regretting putting money in Project Eternity now...

Well you have my thanks.


Of all the Kickstarters, Obsidian's so far has given me the most confidence in terms of the things that they are delivering (i.e. actual prototyping and works in progress, instead of "marketing quality" concept arts and the like).

[Iakus]

argan1985 wrote...

I agree. For the last years, there has been far too much focus on "cinematic" experiences with overly long cutscenes and excessive voice-acting in Bioware's games. I preferred things as they were with BG; a few cutscenes when fitting but most of the story told through a narrative. Nothing beats your own imagination.

This is a good point.  I want to feel like I'm interacting with the narrative, guiding my character through a story (and be able to shape it somewhat).  Not running from one movie scene to antoher.

[Fast Jimmy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm not optomistic. Honestly i'm regretting putting money in Project Eternity now...

Well you have my thanks.


Of all the Kickstarters, Obsidian's so far has given me the most confidence in terms of the things that they are delivering (i.e. actual prototyping and works in progress, instead of "marketing quality" concept arts and the like).

I've only donated to one Kickstarter where I didn't know the names involved (Banner Saga, which still looks like a great, solid game and has Bioware credits, but still names I didn't know beforehand), so I'm rather hopeful about the ones I've put money on.

But, then again... I'm also hopeful that I've put my money on the right horses when I go to the track. And yet... I often lose my money...


But I also haven't gone high-tier for any of my donations. Most just to ensure I get a copy of the game. And I've spent $25 on worse stuff than the chance for a cool game, that's for sure. 

[DragonAgeLegend]

I don't see what's so bad about the cinematography of either games, ME and DA. The entire series for both thus far have been far superior in quality because of their cinematics and the outstanding writing skills. The cinematics to me make the game seem more alive, it's a lot more in depth.

[Iakus]

And when it does that, it's great. Makes the world seem more "real"

But when used too much, it restricts what the character can say or do. The player starts getting led around by the nose rather than having personal agency in the story. It stops being "our" character"

[upsettingshorts]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm not optomistic. Honestly i'm regretting putting money in Project Eternity now...

Well you have my thanks.


Of all the Kickstarters, Obsidian's so far has given me the most confidence in terms of the things that they are delivering (i.e. actual prototyping and works in progress, instead of "marketing quality" concept arts and the like).

Really?

Not to knock Project Eternity in any respect, but Star Citizen actually has a working prototype and has shown quite a few videos.  Though their project is more ambitious.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[spirosz]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Amen.

[Allan Schumacher]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Well you have my thanks.


Of all the Kickstarters, Obsidian's so far has given me the most confidence in terms of the things that they are delivering (i.e. actual prototyping and works in progress, instead of "marketing quality" concept arts and the like).

Really?

Not to knock Project Eternity in any respect, but Star Citizen actually has a working prototype and has shown quite a few videos.  Though their project is more ambitious.

I suppose the implicit assumption I have is that I was referring to the kickstarters I am familiar with (which isn't very many).  I have never even heard of Star Citizen, so it was never considered.

Though I suppose I probably should not have used the word "all" anyways, since in my mind I was more comparing it to Wasteland 2.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:42 .

[upsettingshorts]

 Ah, it's by Wing Commander creator Chris Roberts.  Space sim for PC.  Worth looking into!

It's relatively high profile - such as these things are - so I made an assumption.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I do recall Roberts working on one. Didn't that one already have work done on it prior?

Unfortunately for that one I was more struggling with Kickstarter burnout and as much as I liked the old Wing Commander space sims, I find myself sitting on other space sims since that I just haven't played (Freespace games). So because I figure I can't even really motivate myself to play those ones....

Ironically, had I played the, I'd probably be more on board.

Although Privateer was the pinnacle for me! (I am eying the Elite remake)

[Maria Caliban]

I want a cinematic gaming experience.

[d4eaming]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I do recall Roberts working on one. Didn't that one already have work done on it prior?

Unfortunately for that one I was more struggling with Kickstarter burnout and as much as I liked the old Wing Commander space sims, I find myself sitting on other space sims since that I just haven't played (Freespace games). So because I figure I can't even really motivate myself to play those ones....

Ironically, had I played the, I'd probably be more on board.

Although Privateer was the pinnacle for me! (I am eying the Elite remake)

If you can get the motivation to finish, Freespace is amazing. I loved those games so, so much, and the second game gave some branching options that effected the plot. The final boss in the first game is a bit annoying though, in that I lost all my wingmen and ended up positioning my ship under its belly away from turrets and sticking something on the fire button so I could walk away for the half hour it took for my dinky, half dead fighter to blow it up.

[upsettingshorts]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although Privateer was the pinnacle for me! (I am eying the Elite remake)

Yeah if you like Privateer definitely check out Star Citizen (their official site is still taking backing IIRC) as it's much the same thing by the exact same guy.

And yes I believe they had already done work on it with their own funds.  Then there was crowdfunding (after which they met all of their stretch goals, had to make up more, then ran out of ideas as they made even more money).   And then additional funding kicked in from venture capitalists.

It's pretty big.

Edit:  Also that's enough offtopic from me today.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 décembre 2012 - 03:34 .

[Maria Caliban]

On the Star Citizen site, you can buy a digital ship for an unfinished game for $225 dollars.

I just... I don't even...

WHY?!

[PsychoBlonde]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I want a cinematic gaming experience.

I'm really not seeing why the two should or have to be mutually exclusive.  A cinematic game doesn't have to be less "game" than a non-cinematic one, it's just that it changes the overall paradigm of the game.

Granted, I wouldn't consider a game that had 40-minute-plus cut scenes where you don't get to do anything to be a GOOD cinematic game.  But just because most everything is crap doesn't mean that all entrees in that field are necessarily bad.

[Kidd]

LinksOcarina wrote...

(...) like the custom followers and the epic tiered dungeon and what not.

You've got to be kidding me.

[Fast Jimmy]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

(...) like the custom followers and the epic tiered dungeon and what not.

You've got to be kidding me.

...? 

I'm confused by what you are confused by. Your confusion confuses me.

[abaris]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'm really not seeing why the two should or have to be mutually exclusive.  A cinematic game doesn't have to be less "game" than a non-cinematic one, it's just that it changes the overall paradigm of the game.

They aren't mutually exclusive. But given the latest track record, they can be immersion breakers.

If you're playing an RPG there have to be interrupts and corresponding branches to reflect your playing style. Otherwise you're faced with a canon that doesn't mirror 9 out of 10 players experiences. Your character goes all sentimental when he/she is an uncaring bastard or suddenly be ruthless.

[Marvin_Arnold]

The moment the PC opens his/her mouth and (audibly) starts to speak, that's the moment the gaming experience ends and becomes a "cinematic" experience.

The PC stops being "my" character, and becomes an actor following (more or less) my direction. I'm an (often poweless) director trying to order an actor around. That's not immersive, and that's not role-playing.

For me, a non-voiced protagonist is essential for a RPG. Otherwise, it's an interactive movie.
I've heard the Japanese are mad about them.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 15 décembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Dragoonlordz]

There is nothing wrong with cinematic games if the game was designed to be that way from the offset (I sometimes quite like them such as Privateer 2, Blade Runner even backed one called Fedora on KS). But I do like my RPG's to be more old fashioned in sense dislike when contains too much cinematics and not enough gameplay.

Almost all of the game for me should be gameplay not CGI, all cutscenes within that should be interactive whether dialogue choices or action. I think there should be only maybe half dozen times in the entire game where a non-interactive cinematic takes place with one at start, one at end but just few times in the game itself between the start and end for a major event that just took place.

Cutscenes can be interactive, cinematics cannot (imho). I consider them two different things.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 décembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[Karlone123]

I posted something like this before but I was talking more about auto-dialogue rather than cinematics. Cinematics are good, just as long it is not being overhauled on like auto-dialogue. But they did say they would be doing something different with the auto-dialogue in DA3. No specifics are known, as auto-dialogue was not much of problem for me in DA2 as there was very much little of it.

There will be cinematics and auto-dialgue in DA3, but how much of it is not known. Not too much like ME3 I hope.

[Karlone123]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Cutscenes can be interactive, cinematics cannot (imho). I consider them two different things.

They are both vastly different as you know already, as cinematics are pre-defined and unusable by players, whereas cutscenes can be interactive.

[Wulfram]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'm really not seeing why the two should or have to be mutually exclusive.  A cinematic game doesn't have to be less "game" than a non-cinematic one, it's just that it changes the overall paradigm of the game.

I don't know if it's less "game", but cinematics do eventually clash with interactivity.  Player choice vs flow of the action/dialogue.

I'm of the view that DA:O got the about the right balance between the two, while DA2 was a bit too far on the cinematic side - and ME3 went way way too far in sidelining interactivity.

Of course there are ways to make these sort of things clash less, with stuff like interrupts, but that's still a compromise - any real time interrupts are basically obliged to be simple, because of the limited amount of information that can be conveyed and absorbed.

[LinksOcarina]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Well you have my thanks.


Of all the Kickstarters, Obsidian's so far has given me the most confidence in terms of the things that they are delivering (i.e. actual prototyping and works in progress, instead of "marketing quality" concept arts and the like).

Really?

Not to knock Project Eternity in any respect, but Star Citizen actually has a working prototype and has shown quite a few videos.  Though their project is more ambitious.

I suppose the implicit assumption I have is that I was referring to the kickstarters I am familiar with (which isn't very many).  I have never even heard of Star Citizen, so it was never considered.

Though I suppose I probably should not have used the word "all" anyways, since in my mind I was more comparing it to Wasteland 2.

It's funny, I only put money into three games on Kickstarter. One has already been sent to my house (Diamond Trust of London for the DS by Jason Roher, decent mini RTS title.) The other two were Project Eternity and Wasteland 2 based on the intiial promo deals.

As I said, it's little about the confidence in the projects getting off the ground for me, its the end result that I am more concerned about. If the projects fail it's a loss of money both times yeah, but I can deal with it because in the end I saved up to invest in that as a luxury item anyway. It is the content that bothers me, and based on those updates I have a waning interest in that style of game Obsidian is making.

I am glad they are making it though, a nice secondary market for such games is always healthy. But it doesn't mean I will like th end product automatically until I play it. Call it more of a cautious attitude I guess.