362 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashevajak]

I haven't played enough against Collectors on Silver to contradict or confirm Bioware's data. That said, the times I've fought them, I didn't notice a significant power difference between them and other factions at that level. Given I'm usually a Bronze scrub, and I didn't really use any ammo/armour/weapons consumables, I was as surprised by this as anyone else.

I've certainly noticed a difference between them and other factions at Bronze, though. Also, and this may just be me, but I seem to get them at Bronze when I play U/U far more often than any other faction. I mean a good 10-15% more, going by the enemy faction challenge scores. Is this just me, or has anyone else noticed anything similar?

Of course, maybe because I seem to end up facing off against them so often, that was why I wasn't too worried by them on Silver..

Modifié par Altheas, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[baltoid]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

I'm not suggesting that you are intentionally being dishonest (why would you be?), but I find that very difficult to believe based on my experiences.

The only reason I think can think of that may possibly explain that is that Silver players may just immediately accept that "welp, I'm gonna have to use consumables to make it to extraction in this game" when they see they've got the Collectors.

Modifié par baltoid, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:17 .

[Riot Inducer]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

Erm. What?

Collectors is pretty much the only faction I actually have a serious risk of failing against on silver. Have you taken factors such as consumable use into account when looking at those statistics? Do people tend to use consumables more often when picking collectors then when picking any other enemy?

Agreed, I almost only play full unkown silver and hardly ever fail a match however my consumable use goes way up when fighting collectors, I always have to use more rockets, ops packs and gels when fighting Collectors. Both consumable equipment use and in game consumable use should be taken into account when making a statement like that.

And as others pointed out these numbers are most likely skewed by people dropping from higher difficulties in order to complete the Collector challenges. You already had to alter the rewards for higher difficulties as a result of people doing challenges on lower difficulties, it's more than likely that the massive discrepency between Collectors being "easiest" on silver and "hardest" on gold is a direct result of this.

The Collectors were designed to be more difficult, any glance at a spreadsheet comparing their unit stats and wave compositions to the other factions will tel you this. Gameplay supports this, fighting collectors on any diffuclty makes it feel like the difficulty has been ratchted up to halfway towards the next difficulty. They hinder the players in ways no other faction does and across the board they are mechanically superior to other enemies. So don't try and lie to use saying that because more people are playing them on Silver suddenly they're the "easiest faction".

[Jannic]

baltoid wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

I'm not suggesting that you are intentionally being dishonest (why would you be?), but I find that very difficult to believe based on my experiences.

The only reason I think can think of that may possibly explain that is that Silver players may just immediately accept that "welp, I'm gonna have to use consumables to make it to extraction in this game" when they see they've got the Collectors.

So you are telling us the people are playing better if they think their enemy is worth it? As far as I can see thats a good thing. Maybe I should pug collectors only to test this.

[WolfStar84]

Airealite wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Do they even have the necessary holes for screwing?
Or were those replaced by tech too?

bahahahahaha

[WolfStar84]

Yes they are the toughest faction but thats what makes it a challenge. What would be the point of an enemy you can just walk all over? They're tough but they're the easiest target to hit, especially for headshots
I think someone'e just having a cry cause they're having too tough a time beating them. Would you like some tissues? Do i need to call the waah-mbulance?

[OldeGrim]

I just don't like how half (or more) of my biotic explosions will not work on the collectors. Definitely bugged.

[Tonymac]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

That seems believable, actually.  I think they are the most fun faction on gold.

Its just that they cheap out on you with that scion no line of sight, and bug clouds out of no where.  The faction seems pretty anti-biotic to me.

Players gain more comfort with more experience in dealing with them - its just that the learning curve can suck if the group makeup is bad or there is little to no teamwork.

[baltoid]

Jannic wrote...

baltoid wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

I'm not suggesting that you are intentionally being dishonest (why would you be?), but I find that very difficult to believe based on my experiences.

The only reason I think can think of that may possibly explain that is that Silver players may just immediately accept that "welp, I'm gonna have to use consumables to make it to extraction in this game" when they see they've got the Collectors.

So you are telling us the people are playing better if they think their enemy is worth it? As far as I can see thats a good thing. Maybe I should pug collectors only to test this.

Go ahead.  PUG the other factions on Silver as well and tell me if you think Collectors aren't more difficult.  I would advise you to only use "unknown" as the faction, though.  If you find a group of gold/platinum players in Silver who are trying to complete their Collector challenges, that's going to make things seem easier than they are.

Completion rate isn't the only element that should be considered when assessing difficulty.  I think Collectors have shown that.

Modifié par baltoid, 15 décembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[Dabal Hayat]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

With all due respect, Mr. Fagnan, I too have to disagree: not on the cold hard datas, they are irrefutable, but on the conclusion. Based on my personal experience, I've to agree with the rebuttals of Lord Rosario and .458.

And allow me to add my two cents, for what they matter: why do I consider Collectors the most difficult faction at the moment, regardless of the level of challenge? Because they are capable of disabling every power dependent class, even if temporarily. Geth aren't capable of this: there isn't another faction capable of this, to be precise.
What does it mean, in my personal experience? It means, only some characters (not classes: characters!) are capable of dealing with Collectors in the hard-hitting way. Yes, It's totally possible to bring an Asari Vanguard (just for instance's sake) against Collectors and finish the match, but It isn't the wisest or the first choice I see in lobbies, and I rightly know why.
And more: if we are in covers, Geths can't hurt us. Between Possessed Scions and Swarms, Collectors will hunt, kill and defile our tender bodies even in covers.
Yes, Geth Rocket Troopers can shoot a volley of rockets through walls, and Hunters and Primes have... abnormal stagger capabilities, but they  don't have the DPS ratio of some Collectors units (mainly Scions), nor they can eat your face through walls, as instead Pretorians do. 
If Collectors are broken or simply more challenging then Geth isn't something I'm interested to define here, but I'm strongly convinced they are the most difficult faction in ME3 multiplayer, regardless of the level of challenge.
Regards.

Modifié par Dabal Hayat, 15 décembre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Admiral Dreck]

I actually enjoy facing Collectors on Gold.  Becuase unlike the other factions, They aren't easy!  I mean seriously, they are what has been keeping me from "Being too bored to even play the game anymore."  Also, I have to agree with the stats that Eric stated, I find Collectors very easy on Silver.

But now to hate on them a bit.  I do agree that Swarms have a little bit too much health.  I don't think the Scions cannon should have so much Splash damage.  And how many Harbringers are there, that so many enemies can be possessed at once!?

That is all.

[LoonySpectre]

When we are in covers, geth hurt us with their Bomber. Or strategically placed Geth Turrets and Drones.

[Edolix]

BerryDiesel wrote...



....wait, what?

Not gonna lie, this made me chuckle

[Leland Gaunt]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

With all due respect: That hardly sounds believable.
And btw: is there ever going to be a look taken on the Collectors receiving less damage from combos than other factions? I think it was stated like a month ago, but there doesn't seem to have been any statement on that since.

[Dabal Hayat]

LoonySpectre wrote...

When we are in covers, geth hurt us with their Bomber. Or strategically placed Geth Turrets and Drones.

Yes, but bombers don't have the thoughness of a Scion( yet...). And because the bombers sow in lines and not in kill boxes, they are easier to evade, even staying in cover. Bombers also have to be on your position to do their job: Scions can calmly paint you with 'nades with atrocious precision from the other side of the map and then kill you while you're tring to escape.
The same it's true for turrets: the Prime have to actively engage you to use turrets efficently, and a turret simply don't have the DPS of the Scions arm cannon.

Modifié par Dabal Hayat, 15 décembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

the hard thing to quantify is, "Are they fun to play?"  I can be as successful against Geth and Collectors, but I often find that they are less fun with many kits.

[RaptorSolutions]

Dabal Hayat wrote...

LoonySpectre wrote...

When we are in covers, geth hurt us with their Bomber. Or strategically placed Geth Turrets and Drones.

Yes, but bombers don't have the thoughness of a Scion( yet...). And because the bombers sow in lines and not in kill boxes, they are easier to evade, even staying in cover. Bombers also have to be on your position to do their job: Scions can calmly paint you with 'nades with atrocious precision from the other side of the map and then kill you while you're tring to escape.
The same it's true for turrets: the Prime have to actively engage you to use turrets efficently, and a turret simply don't have the DPS of the Scions arm cannon.

True, but that is also a problem. When a Scion is engaging you, chances are you will be aware of its position and be able to take appropriate measures even with its support unit.

When a prime engages you... you'll be engaging it, taking a few hits. Then the turret it drops behind you engages you and you are downed.

[RaptorSolutions]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

the hard thing to quantify is, "Are they fun to play?"  I can be as successful against Geth and Collectors, but I often find that they are less fun with many kits.

True, you need to be on your toes more. But they are more fun with sniper kits though. Headshots galore!

[mrcanada]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

No offense, but your data is incorrect and misleading. The Collectors are the most difficult faction regardless of difficulty, period. I can't say my team ever fails to extract, but Collectors are the most difficult for obvious reasons. 

[CHRrOME]

They are tough as hell. All the troopers do tons of damage to shields/barriers/health.
Pretorians with their super turbolaser eye bull**** go through walls and take your shields/barriers instantly, and if you kill them they still die shooting at you with the laser, if you are close you are pretty much dead, never stop hitting you and you can't move for ****.
Scions with their naval-nuke arm cannon with intelligent seeker rounds can kill you with two shots. Krogan: 1250 shield, 2 shots: bye shields, one more shot, take 3/4 health. Are you ****ing kidding me?
Seeker swarms, they are a bunch of flyes and take an entire magazine to die, yeah thats logic.

And the Super Sayayin mode (possession bull****) make everything worst.

In short, they are OP as ****. Instead of nerfing more guns and characters, Bioware should fix that kind of retardness.

[Dabal Hayat]

RaptorSolutions wrote...

Dabal Hayat wrote...

LoonySpectre wrote...

When we are in covers, geth hurt us with their Bomber. Or strategically placed Geth Turrets and Drones.

Yes, but bombers don't have the thoughness of a Scion( yet...). And because the bombers sow in lines and not in kill boxes, they are easier to evade, even staying in cover. Bombers also have to be on your position to do their job: Scions can calmly paint you with 'nades with atrocious precision from the other side of the map and then kill you while you're tring to escape.
The same it's true for turrets: the Prime have to actively engage you to use turrets efficently, and a turret simply don't have the DPS of the Scions arm cannon.

True, but that is also a problem. When a Scion is engaging you, chances are you will be aware of its position and be able to take appropriate measures even with its support unit.

When a prime engages you... you'll be engaging it, taking a few hits. Then the turret it drops behind you engages you and you are downed.

Again, this it's true, but the DPS of Scions is >  of that of a Prime: for this reason, and their instakill, I found Scions (Collectors) more challenging than Primes (Geth). 
I can kill a Prime before it kills me, but I can't always do the same with Scions, regardless of the level of challenge. 

[IC-07]

Wait, people still hate the collectors? I thought everybody got used to them already.

[rgeshevv]

IC-07 wrote...

Wait, people still hate the collectors? I thought everybody got used to them already.

It's one thing getting used to one faction. It's quite another that faction being harder than the others. I'm used to Geth and their cheapness long time ago, but that doesn't mean they are fun to play against... nor it's fair to eat 3 rockets in 1.5 seconds by a single trooper...

[Wolfsbladex]

lazuli wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

Except during hack objectives, surely.

That Guild Wars skill set in your signature; I get it lmfao!

[AdamWeith]

you should be able to fight harby one on one