362 réponses à ce sujet

[Ser Reevo Von Bartlesby]

The Collector faction is one of the most fun to play, hands down, and I don't know where the idea of them being 'cheap' is coming from. When they are not bugged, they are the epitome of how to play this game with skill, situiational awareness, flank coverage, squad communication, utilizing cover, etc. It actually feels like a FIGHT and not a stagger-30grenades-wholeteamdrops-30grenades-rez-rez-30grenades-rez-rez-wholeteamdropsagain-repeat-a-thon **** tactic by those heretical Geth ******(s).

The real issue at hand here is the fact that they have caused a huge number of people to no longer play Unknown maps due to the fact that console resets are never fun, and this is the rule, not the exception, to playing a Collector match on Gold+, or god forbid you get Collectors on a Hazard map... that is a guaranteed freeze for me.

To reiterate: The Collectors are my favorite faction to fight and I'd gladly whoop their asses via DrellGuard BOOMs all day long if I knew that I and/or my friends were not going to experience sync/lag issues and/or system freezes requiring hard resets.

Eric, you have to have the data for the amount of dropped matches if you have the data to deem them easiest on silver (of which I agree - since the faction changes). This is a huge issue in the crowd of active daily players on PSN and is a topic much discussed every time we are in lobby - yet we've gotten no official acknolwedgement nor statements about the issue, which came about with the pre-DLC patch.

Please give us our U/U/G+ back. We support the hell out of this game, and I'm willing to run days of repetitive playtesting if you give me the tools/servers to dump data to. It just needs to be fixed.

[Mjolinar]

Kogia wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

Sir, if I may....

Praetorian lazers are great, I love the fact they are deliberately designed to go through shield gate.... really makes those 3000 shields and 70% DR I get on my krogan sentinel worth it.....

Its just, can we maybe not have them shooting through walls, makes them kinda ridiculous aye?

Bees make for an interesting addition, however, the bees have waaaaaaaaay too much health; plus their hit box needs to represent the actual size of the model better.

I support praetorian lazers not shooting through concrete, and a nerf the health of the bees!

This is petty much exactly what needs to be done. Plus their annoying habit of ignoring many spell effects should be fixed as a priority, although Geth Bombers also present this power too often.

The lasers shooting through walls is a rather annoying issue, it makes avoiding it feel like pot luck.

The bees make being caster heavy more of a problem, this wouldn't be quite so much of an annoyance if it didn't take so bloomin long to kill the things and if their hitbox wasn't so jumpy. It all adds up to feeling a bit 'unfair'.

Agreed, or maybe provide a solution to affect weapon-reliant classes instead of just power-heavy ones. I mean, they already have power immunity on bosses (intentional) and everything else (bug). Why only inconvenience power-reliant classes, and let Soldiers and the like be able to attack Praetorians, Phantoms, and Banshees whenever they want?

[MP-Ryan]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

Has that data been adjusted to compensate for under/over-representation of certain factions played?

I know my group of regulars has generally avoided Collectors by not selecting 'Unknown' as an enemy type on Gold and above simply because they are so irritating to play against.  I can imagine how the stats could be skewed toward silver completion if Gold-level players are down-stepping to silver to complete their challenge waves against that enemy, which could make them appear to be the easiest faction even if they are not.

I'm actually curious what the various factions-played stats are.  I imagine that, post-Retaliation, Cerberus and Reapers are played most, followed by Geth, followed by Collectors - at least in Gold/Platinum - but I'd be curious what the actual data says.

[andresft]

I think we can all agree that the Collectors are decidedly NOT the easiest faction on Silver, not by a long shot. Statistics are one thing, but when there's such a strong community consensus that they are misleading, I'd go ahead and say that they are misleading. Either you're running into causation issues or you're not looking at all the data, Eric. As some have said, equipment usage is a far better metric.

It actually surprises me a bit that they're relatively easier on Silver, because I always thought that they were comparably much harder than the other factions on the lower difficulties. A Bronze run against them is, in terms of difficulty, halfway between Bronze Reapers and Silver Reapers. Silver Collectors are halfway between Silver Reapers and Gold Reapers. Gold Collectors? They're certainly harder, the gap between them and the Reapers isn't as wide IMO.

The first thing I would do is give the player some sort of warning that there's a Scion in the vicinity and probably aiming at them. Atlases can be felt from a mile away. Ravagers point lasers at you. Geth Prime don't inflict nearly as much damage per shot (correct me if I'm mistaken) and they make a lot of noise. Scions are just giant silent killers who can kill you from any distance in a matter of three seconds. If there's one, no problem, you can just dance around it. If there's two, however, that's a party. And they don't generally like to be alone. The problem is that they down you and, when they do, it's very risky to have someone revive you or even revive yourself, because clearly you/they're going to be within striking range. I would say this is how my teams have collapsed against Collectors most often.

Number two, I would reduce stomp frequency by a half. It's no secret that they stomp more quickly and more often than any other faction (especially the Reapers). This presents two problems: it's not just the fact that people get executed a lot; it's also that other teammates are aware of this and will try to rush to revive them, potentially becoming vulnerable to being downed themselves. I'm sure if BW looks at the number of times that 3 players go down in a span ten seconds on any difficulty, 75% of the time it'll be against the Collectors (another 20% will probably be Phantoms).

Three, biotic explosions. Four, seeker swarms.

Modifié par andresft, 16 décembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[Shotgun Nova]

Lord Rosario wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Fwiw I disagree with everyone about the swarms having too much health. They would be completely pointless if they were any easier to take down.

I wonder how much health/barriers a possessed swarm [forget what the buggers are called] compared to a shielded enemy like a rocket trooper.

Possessed Seeker swarms have the same barrier health, but more base health than a Geth Rocket trooper..  On Gold.

[whateverman7]

couple thoughts:

- as much as people on here use spreadsheet info to play the game, it's funny many are now claiming the data is incorrect cause they dont like the results eric posted lol

- no changes need to be made to them....the collectors are difficult, not cheap...they are more of a challenge than the other factions cause they work as a team, which makes you have to work as a team, which is a great thing....also, they are so easy to headshot against, it's funny

- if bw did make changes and made them easier, the same people saying they are too hard, would then be saying they are too easy and need a harder difficulty level...

- i enjoy playing against them...i just need bw to address the freezing issue on ps3, so i can play against them more often...

Modifié par whateverman7, 16 décembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

And about geth bombers... It's bad enough that they're small (like husks and abominations), but they can dodge powers too. And they have two layers of protection.

[BiO]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

What about Platinum?

[CitizenThom]

As far as fixes go, I put stunlock and the various other methods of Geth cheating (I'm cloaked so your powers pass right through me, I'm stasis'd/pull'd/etc. but my shotgun/rocket launcher isn't, etc.) ahead of fixing the Collectors. That said, the swarms do have too much health, and their hit box isn't as big as their model. Praetorian's lasers need to be more consistent, there's no telling when the lasers are going to go through cover and when they're not.

[DarthSliver]

BiO_MaN wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

What about Platinum?

Platinum is a whole different matter, I think its stupid that you have to select Collectors to even face them on Platinum but since the freezing issue happens its good that it is that way right now. I pray that when the Collectors are fix for Gold and Platinum they make Platinum more random where the selected faction is the only guarantee faction to enter with the other 2 being selected at random when wave 3 and 6 comes.  I like Collectors, the thing i hate about them is I cant  U/U/G anymore if i enter a random lobby with Collectors in it i will bail out and lose my stuff if the game decides to take it from me. I will not have my system freeze because of something i cant control. 

[Sable Dove]

I haven't seen it brought up, but are they including total completion data, or only data since the Collectors were released?

I ask, because it's important to remember that the Collectors were released post-extraction-credits, meaning completion rates for the other factions are artificially low on account of people who intentionally failed after Wave 10 to get credits faster.

[TODD 5184]

I would say Collectors are the hardest faction on Silver.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Collectors: Hardest
Geth: Hard
Reapers: Medium
Cerberus: Easiest

Cerberus is my favorite, for this reason.

[xcrunr1647]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

Owned.

[xcrunr1647]

andresft wrote...

I think we can all agree that the Collectors are decidedly NOT the easiest faction on Silver, not by a long shot. Statistics are one thing, but when there's such a strong community consensus that they are misleading, I'd go ahead and say that they are misleading. Either you're running into causation issues or you're not looking at all the data, Eric. As some have said, equipment usage is a far better metric.

Wow, seriously? This made me lol.

You would actually presume to tell one of the developers of the game that they're not looking at all the data? Based on what? Your opinion?

[snip]

The first thing I would do is give the player some sort of warning that there's a Scion in the vicinity and probably aiming at them. Atlases can be felt from a mile away. Ravagers point lasers at you. Geth Prime don't inflict nearly as much damage per shot (correct me if I'm mistaken) and they make a lot of noise. Scions are just giant silent killers who can kill you from any distance in a matter of three seconds. If there's one, no problem, you can just dance around it. If there's two, however, that's a party. And they don't generally like to be alone. The problem is that they down you and, when they do, it's very risky to have someone revive you or even revive yourself, because clearly you/they're going to be within striking range. I would say this is how my teams have collapsed against Collectors most often.

It's called situational awareness.

Get some.

Number two, I would reduce stomp frequency by a half. It's no secret that they stomp more quickly and more often than any other faction (especially the Reapers). This presents two problems: it's not just the fact that people get executed a lot; it's also that other teammates are aware of this and will try to rush to revive them, potentially becoming vulnerable to being downed themselves. I'm sure if BW looks at the number of times that 3 players go down in a span ten seconds on any difficulty, 75% of the time it'll be against the Collectors (another 20% will probably be Phantoms).

Three, biotic explosions. Four, seeker swarms.

You would do well to remember that BSN represents a very small portion of the ME3 MP player base. Very, very small.

I'm praying that Eric, Bryan, Stan, or someone can feel bothered enough to post info that proves you wrong. Because I find it quite comical that you think you know better than they do. Even though they have the data and you don't.

As someone else has said, it's hysterical that so many people use spreadsheets and DATA, DATA, DATA to play the game. Now that a BW rep posts the data, they don't like it, and some even go so far as to say flat out that it's wrong.

LOL!

[Si7ent Sigh]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Collectors: Hardest
Geth: Hard
Reapers: Medium
Cerberus: Easiest

Cerberus is my favorite, for this reason.

I'm with you on the top two. But Dragoons and Phantoms are really cheaty.

I think Reapers are the easiest, but I better not talk too loud because they will add some rediculous enemy type. But totally agree with the with the OP, collectors are the cheapest faction. Scions, Praetorians are rediculous.

[Dorryn]

xcrunr1647 wrote...

You would do well to remember that BSN represents a very small portion of the ME3 MP player base. Very, very small.

Very true. And no one can speak for the many who don't post here. Not those who agree with Fagnan (like you), not those who don't (like me).

I'm praying that Eric, Bryan, Stan, or someone can feel bothered enough to post info that proves you wrong. Because I find it quite comical that you think you know better than they do. Even though they have the data and you don't.

I would love to see such "proof" myself. For the moment we've only see a dev claiming that the data prove us wrong.
And even if they were to post the data, like I explained earlier theory and practice are two things entirely different.

As someone else has said, it's hysterical that so many people use spreadsheets and DATA, DATA, DATA to play the game. Now that a BW rep posts the data, they don't like it, and some even go so far as to say flat out that it's wrong.

He didn't. He just spoke of the data but he didn't post it. And even if they did they did it wouldn't proove anything for the reason I explained above.

[ThirdWorldAssassin]

xcrunr1647 wrote...

You would do well to remember that BSN represents a very small portion of the ME3 MP player base. Very, very small.

I'm praying that Eric, Bryan, Stan, or someone can feel bothered enough to post info that proves you wrong. Because I find it quite comical that you think you know better than they do. Even though they have the data and you don't.

As someone else has said, it's hysterical that so many people use spreadsheets and DATA, DATA, DATA to play the game. Now that a BW rep posts the data, they don't like it, and some even go so far as to say flat out that it's wrong.

LOL!

Get off your high horse. BSN together still has more hours logged playing the game than bioware has making the game. Fact that we are a very small part of playing community means NOTHING, we're the ones that are actually voicing our opinion. 
Even if they would post stats (not gonna happen), it would still mean nothing. Collectors are broken. Not cheap, not difficult. And they're never gonna fix them, because judging by what Eric said in this thread, they don't even know what the hell they're doing.

Modifié par ThirdWorldAssassin, 17 décembre 2012 - 12:58 .

[xcrunr1647]

[quote]Dorryn wrote...

[quote]xcrunr1647 wrote...

You would do well to remember that BSN represents a very small portion of the ME3 MP player base. Very, very small. [/quote]
Very true. And no one can speak for the many who don't post here. Not those who agree with Fagnan (like you), not those who don't (like me).

[quote]I'm praying that Eric, Bryan, Stan, or someone can feel bothered enough to post info that proves you wrong. Because I find it quite comical that you think you know better than they do. Even though they have the data and you don't.[/quote]
I would love to see such "proof" myself. For the moment we've only see a dev claiming that the data prove us wrong.
And even if they were to post the data, like I explained earlier theory and practice are two things entirely different.

[quote]As someone else has said, it's hysterical that so many people use spreadsheets and DATA, DATA, DATA to play the game. Now that a BW rep posts the data, they don't like it, and some even go so far as to say flat out that it's wrong. 
[/quote]
He didn't. He just spoke of the data but he didn't post it. And even if they did they did it wouldn't proove anything for the reason I explained above.
[/quote]

I find it very difficult to believe that a BW rep would flat-out lie about the data...however, touche. I will grant you that he did just speak of it, he didn't post it. Very true. 

[quote]ThirdWorldAssassin wrote...

[quote]xcrunr1647 wrote...

You would do well to remember that BSN represents a very small portion of the ME3 MP player base. Very, very small.

I'm praying that Eric, Bryan, Stan, or someone can feel bothered enough to post info that proves you wrong. Because I find it quite comical that you think you know better than they do. Even though they have the data and you don't.

As someone else has said, it's hysterical that so many people use spreadsheets and DATA, DATA, DATA to play the game. Now that a BW rep posts the data, they don't like it, and some even go so far as to say flat out that it's wrong.

LOL!

[/quote]

Get off your high horse. BSN together still has more hours logged playing the game than bioware has making the game. Fact that we are a very small part of playing community means NOTHING, we're the ones that are actually voicing our opinion. [/quote]

Lol...and you know exactly how many hours they logged creating the game, from conception to completion? I'm going to quote ABjerre, who quoted Christopher Hitchens in another thread:

[quote]That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.[/quote]

And it actually means quite a lot that we're such a small portion of the player base. But if you're so dead-set on the fact that it doesn't (as you seem to be), I'm not going to waste my time trying to turn a lemon into a pear. 

Correct me if you're more open minded than I perceive. 

[quote]
Even if they would post stats (not gonna happen), it would still mean nothing. Collectors are broken. Not cheap, not difficult.
[/quote]

No, they're really not. Get some situational awareness, get a team to work with, pay attention to the AI so you can learn what tells each of the enemy has, and then proceed to wreck them just like any other faction. 

They really aren't that difficult. 

[quote]
And they're never gonna fix them, because judging by what Eric said in this thread, they don't even know what the hell they're doing.
[/quote]

[quote]
judging by what Eric said in this thread, they don't even know what the hell they're doing.
[/quote]

[quote]
they don't even know what the hell they're doing.
[/quote]

And you told me to get off my high horse. 

[xcrunr1647]

Si7ent Sigh wrote...

I think Reapers are the easiest, but I better not talk too loud because they will add some rediculous enemy type. 

I hope they add Adjutants to the Reapers. 

I've already prepared myself for all the whining that will consume the forums when it happens. 

[xGunKungFUx]

Ive always found reapers to be the easiest... even since release.

[Beerfish]

They are simply the most difficult in the games I play because they require the most consumables to defeat, and this is on bronze and silver games. Yes, if you are playing in a total team based game and not going with the solo mentality and you are doing the objectives rockets are required at times even on lowly bronze.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

PseudoSystem wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...


The Possessed Scion is like fighting a Ravager combined with a Geth Bomber, and with the health of a Banshee. 

Solution to Collectors: Move around.

You can safely circle around a scion and never get hit due to his incredibly slow turning speed.  Possessed scion barriers are far less than banshee barriers and can be removed with a single overload.  Once they're down to armor, around 4-6 Incinerate+Overload combos finish them off in less than a dozen seconds.  Banshees take 3-4 overloads to strip them of their barriers.  Once they'r down to armor, it still takes a lot longer to kill them as they jump and can negate powers.  Scions cannot. Yes, Troopers and captains deal hefty damage, but so do ALL geth units.  Very few collectors stun-lock.  Only swarms and praetorians are a problem.  All geth ****** me off.

Shouldn't the Scion be compared to the Brute, and the Praetorian to the Banshee?

[LAZERAK47]

I'm amazed this topic is still going! The Dark Side is strong with me it seems