362 réponses à ce sujet

[Jade Elf]

hong wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

I find this rather difficult to believe. The data may say that the mission completion rate for Silver is highest for collectors, but have you allowed for:

- People being more willing to use consumables against collectors? I know I'm much more trigger-happy with missiles against them, for one.

- The skill level of the players in matches? You're likely to have less skilled players deliberately choosing to avoid them.

Without doing this, you can't really conclude that collectors are the easiest faction.

This!

[JiceDuresh]

Sure they may be 'easy' on silver but to which class, infiltrators and...some soilders? Certainly Not my Havoc or Brawler, who can't charge anything but the basic troopers without getting Sync killed. Certainly not my Turian Sentinel or Vorcha Hunter who rely on powers to be usefull but who's powers are useless and/or unusable 50% of the time.

Easy or not, it's not fun to play a class meant to get into the enemies face, and then be faced with any enemy that instantly kills you when you get close. Banshees have period where they don't sync kill, Brute and Atlas, sync kill rarely, Phantoms only if you lag. But Pretorians and Scions? EVERY. DAMN. TIME. Seriously, what's the point of having Havoc strike/Biotic Charge against collectors when there's 0 opportunity to use them?

[Farmtech-Ru]

From where it started, the two big guys from collector family seem to have become much easier to stagger, thus really no problems with them remain compared to initial start.

[SectiplaveB4]

The biggest mistake most people make with Collectors is wasting firepower on Praetorians while captains and scions move up on your flanks, quick way to get your self in a revive daisy chaining fiasco on Gold.

[RGB]

BlueTobimon wrote...

Is it just my imagination or does heavy melee not triggering the explosion? Atleast my Brawler wasn't blown up.

Heavy melee will trigger the explosion. If the Abomination grabs you and you wrestle free, it will not explode.

Two things to contribute to this. Number one, Collectors are noticeably more difficult than other factions on Silver and (I believe) on Gold. I haven't played a great deal of Gold since just after the Earth DLC, but Reapers/Cerberus/Geth are cruise control on Gold. Collectors are a nightmare. The reason they are a nightmare, however, is not necessarily because they are cheap. It's because they reflect a perfect storm of units. Compare the units of the Collectors to comparable units from other factions.

A Scion would be something akin to a Ravager. Except that a Scion shot staggers. Okay, maybe it's more like a Prime. Only the shot delays shield regen. Also, it has the ability to fire grenades at you and flush you out of cover. It has much more armor than a Ravager and seems to be about equal to a Prime (in this poor man's eye test). So it's analogous to... what, exactly? What faction has one unit that fulfills the roles of several other units at the same time?

Abominations are the Husks of the Collectors. Trash mob that is given power because it can grab you and force you into an animation while still taking damage from other sources. Except it is also a bomb that can be mitigated in several ways (some or ALL of which may not be available if you play U/U as I do). So an Abomination is also a unit that forces you from cover, pins you in the open AND punishes you for not prioritizing it above other - supposedly more dangerous - units.

Praetorian. Frequently silent. Has an attack with incredible range that will shield gate you in one hit and health gate you in two. Has a close-range melee attack that will shield gate you in one hit and health gate you in two. Invulnerability in flight when hit with a power. Incredible speed. Forces you out of cover - are we sensing a pattern here?

Of course these factors can be mitigated by player skill. Kiting, soft and hard cover, memorization of attack patterns and tactical positioning. Is it IMPOSSIBLE to beat them? No. But it is frequently an ugly game that involves a great deal of frustration and annoyance. I would rather fight the Geth every time.

I don't know if the statistics are true or not (I tend to doubt it, since carrying in Collectors on Silver is the norm and I don't PUG Gold anymore), but if they are true, I would like to know how that is possible. All you need to do is play in the same lobby and watch people who handle Cerberus, Reapers and Geth with finesse and poise get destroyed by the Collectors to know it isn't merely a question of player skill or bellyaching.

TL;DR - No one unit or ability that the Collectors possess is awful on its own. When they are combined they make for an agonizing situation in which prioritizing ANY target over another is a mistake that will lead to your death. Statistics mentioned by BW staff don't pass the eye test.

[TommyNg]

hong wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

I find this rather difficult to believe. The data may say that the mission completion rate for Silver is highest for collectors, but have you allowed for:

- People being more willing to use consumables against collectors? I know I'm much more trigger-happy with missiles against them, for one.

- The skill level of the players in matches? You're likely to have less skilled players deliberately choosing to avoid them.

Without doing this, you can't really conclude that collectors are the easiest faction.

I know collector are the hardest , a little bit , but its ok if lazer eye and swarmer are fix

Also silver cant reflect the true picture, using eagle will score higher than using particle beam X in silver due to lack of boss

Modifié par TommyNg, 15 décembre 2012 - 09:50 .

[ArcaptSSX]

BryceH wrote...
The reason they are a nightmare, however, is not necessarily because they are cheap. It's because they reflect a perfect storm of units. Compare the units of the Collectors to comparable units from other factions.

That and the relative inability to clear them efficiently for a very big portion of the games' kits. -33% on power combos can be felt, a LOT. This section talks a lot about weapon kits being favored over power kits, but that's only part of the truth.
The biggest advantage weapons kits have isn't dps but the stability of it: weapons work the same all the time. Power users must deal with swarms, evasive geth/marauders/captain hops, countering one another (biotic priming overriden by tech priming), anti-power barriers, Biotic Charge not triggering (or getting you sync-killed).

The only instable part of weapon dps is headshots on bosses, since BEs don't care about the unit's status. Except with the -33% penalty on power combos that Collectors get, this advantage is mostly negated, particularly if you consider that time is a key factor against them because of the possession mechanic. Add the neverending anti-power barrier to Praetorians and it's even worse.

That is even emphasized because of the Acolyte's predominance, since power users rarely use weapons such as Carnifex or Paladin anymore.

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 15 décembre 2012 - 09:52 .

[RGB]

JohnBobbyTheThird wrote...

The only instable part of weapon dps is headshots on bosses, since BEs don't care about the unit's status. Except with the -33% penalty on power combos that Collectors get this advantage is mostly negated, particularly if you consider that time is a key factor against them, because of the possession mechanic. Add the neverending anti-power barrier to Praetorians and it's even worse.

You said it perfectly, and it was something I mentioned in my big wall of text.  It's not that the Collectors cannot be countered - it's that they took all the strengths of the other factions and made one UBERFACTION, then released it with multiple confirmed and infuriating bugs.

Add to that, if you play on PS3 and you are kicking that Collector a**, they will just freeze your console.

[Rebel_Raven]

BlueTobimon wrote...

Is it just my imagination or does heavy melee not triggering the explosion? Atleast my Brawler wasn't blown up.

The only heavy melees that won't cause an Abomination to explode are the ones that remove their heads. That includes batarians, and shadows.

Abominations are defused when decapitated.
Doesn't matter how you remove their ... cortex bomb I guess you'd call it.

[Mad Scientist]

chefcook90 wrote...

Krogan / N7 Destroyer being bombarded by 3 Primes on Gold = me shouting "Look at all the f*cks I don't give!" and ripping them appart with my Typhoon.

O rly? Video link or gtfo.

[P51Mus7ang]

I find the results from Bioware......well odd.

If the measurement is completion rates I would drill down, what percentage of games at each level is each enemy.....it could be that higher level players drop to silver or whatever to play collectors but to state they are the easiest on silver.....well I must be playing a different game.

Our team manages them well on gold however IMHO Geth are by far the hardest on gold or silver, I play silver pugs to complete challenge(s) and sometimes solo silver working on something, pugs struggle with Collectors very hard, Geth can be a nightmare, Cerb is fairly easy and reepers are a cake walk.

I understand when doing the balancing act it's a numbers game from the database but this is yet another opinion that the numbers do not always reflect the way it is.

[darthxaher]

Collectors are tough, but I like them, apart from some annoying bugs, they are far from being cheap. If you got wiped in a Collector Gold match, that was probably due to the fact that you were not paying enough attention. They are tough, but they give you enough time to react. It's not that much tough to evade those attacks.

I hate Geth tough, they are just cheap. Tiny Geth turret spawning up from nowhere, sunlock, Infinite missies, you name it. Yeah, they can be taken out with A Kroguard, I did chore too, but that seems like a cheaper tactics to subvert the cheapest enemy. I don't play Geth anymore, unless one of friend asks me to do it.

[ArcaptSSX]

darthxaher wrote...

Collectors are tough, but I like them, apart from some annoying bugs, they are far from being cheap. If you got wiped in a Collector Gold match, that was probably due to the fact that you were not paying enough attention. They are tough, but they give you enough time to react. It's not that much tough to evade those attacks.

Precisely they don't, since they get much tougher and dangerous with possession.

[AppealToReason]

I seriously have no more issue with them than I do any other faction. They're only a pain as a Vanguard as them damn seeker swarms go a ruin your shields/cooldown.

[Jadebaby]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our player data based on completion rates, the Collectors are slightly harder than other factions on Gold, but about the same as other factions on other difficulties. On Silver, they are the easiest faction.

How are they the easiet faction on silver?

[ScumbagVince]

The only problem I have with the Collectors is that the Scions can bring you down to healthgate regardless of difficulty if all shots hit as well as those annoying Captains, with their CSMG XXXXVIIII.

Modifié par ScumbagVince, 15 décembre 2012 - 11:07 .

[fayk_id]

seeker swarms must give more points on kill OR get killed easier

other than that, good faction

[Schnuez1]

*adds some sugar* interesting...

[greghorvath]

screw collectors? I would find that extrememly tedious. I prefer collecting stamps.

[zsom]

Ziegrif wrote...

Do they even have the necessary holes for screwing?
Or were those replaced by tech too?

[Googleness]

collectors are tricky as long as you work in team and make sure you kill abominations > troopers > commander > scion > praetorian (that order) they are very easy...
I can headshot them with revenent... lol

[Ser Reevo Von Bartlesby]

ASSUMINGDIRECTC0NTR0L wrote...

TheCourier_1 wrote...

Are they still bugged?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/14601238

Yes.

[Sleepingviking]

The collectors are well gone, its their ghosts that are pounding on us.
Wheres the ghostbusters when you need them?

Modifié par Sleepingviking, 15 décembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[Jannic]

Those eggheads are allways welcome to a headshotfestival. They may hit fast and hard but they do take as much either. Except for abominations you cant miss the head. They are just everywhere.

edit:

Sleepingviking wrote...

The collectors are well gone, its their ghosts that are pounding on us.
Wheres the ghostbusters when you need them?

The number you have called has been lame since 1989.

Modifié par Jannic, 15 décembre 2012 - 11:26 .

[LoonySpectre]

Heavy Melee that decapitates (all batarians, Shadow, Slayer) does not set off the explosion. As well as headshot kills.