30 réponses à ce sujet

[Sentibunny]

 I'm so sad right now. A month ago I got Mass Effect 2, and I loved it. This week was my birthday, and I picked up Mass Effect Trilogy. 

I just hate the first game. So much. The graphics are worse, the combat is tedious for me, and it's riddled with bugs and extremely confusing. I have absolutely no desire to keep playing it.

I tried Mass Effect 3, and it is amazing. The story is so engrossing for me, the combat is awesome, and I love my Shepard, even though I started him on Mass Effect 2.

Is it wrong of me to just opt out of playing the first Mass Effect, at least for now? I'm on the Theros level, and I'm just absolutely exhausted and bored to death. I ran around for half an hour doing things, then I have to deal with the awful controls of the Mako, then I have to be told to "cure the colonists or kill them," so I accidentally waste my grenades on the wrong people. Once I found the ones I was supposed to interact with, I had no grenades, so I have to kill them all. And there's a boss fight coming up too? No. Thank. You.

I feel like I'm not a true Mass Effect fan if I haven't played the entire series, and I feel guilty for asking my mom for the trilogy and only playing 1/3 of it.

[PsiFive]

Sentibunny wrote...

 I'm so sad right now. A month ago I got Mass Effect 2, and I loved it. This week was my birthday, and I picked up Mass Effect Trilogy. 

I just hate the first game. So much. The graphics are worse, the combat is tedious for me, and it's riddled with bugs and extremely confusing. I have absolutely no desire to keep playing it.

I tried Mass Effect 3, and it is amazing. The story is so engrossing for me, the combat is awesome, and I love my Shepard, even though I started him on Mass Effect 2.

This is a problem with playing the second first. Unavoidable for PS3 users but all the same you can easily end up going into the trilogy at the beginning of the story with expectations that a five year old game can't possibly be expected to deliver. I'd also argue that ME2+3 experience is incredibly spoiler heavy for the first game, but again it was unavoidable given that nobody knew there'd be a PS3 port until about 3 months ago.
Should you stick with it? No, not if you really don't want to. But having played the games in order (well, hundreds of hours and umpteen replays of 1 & 2 and as much of 3 as I could be bothered with, maybe about half of it) I'd say that the series is best begun at the beginning where the story is strongest and best ended before the end where characters who are supposed to be under arrest are allowed deadly weapons and indoctrinated people don't think tying up prisoners is a good idea, and where the spacebar suddenly does nearly everything, quite often when you don't want it to. Yes, I mean I think of ME3 what you think of ME1, though I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate it - it's just a bit....crap. I'll probably still buy it once I can get it for under $10, but I already know the story and will only be playing it as a 3rd person shooter - the story I just can't takle seriously enough to treat it as an RPG.

Is it wrong of me to just opt out of playing the first Mass Effect, at least for now?

 Your experience is different from mine. Neither is right or wrong. Dropping it for now is just fine. In fact another option might be to walk away from all of Mass Effect for now and come back to ME1 after playing something totally different. Whatever you do doesn't make you less of a fan, and there's no requirement for you to be one anyway. Gaming is for fun and you should do only as much as is fun for you.

I'm on the Theros level, and I'm just absolutely exhausted and bored to death. I ran around for half an hour doing things, then I have to deal with the awful controls of the Mako, then I have to be told to "cure the colonists or kill them," so I accidentally waste my grenades on the wrong people. Once I found the ones I was supposed to interact with, I had no grenades, so I have to kill them all. And there's a boss fight coming up too? No. Thank. You.

There's stuff I could say but difficult to deal with that in the spoiler free area. Might be something for the ME1 strategies part of the forum. I can say that the art of driving the Mako lies more in map reading relief maps than 
in the controls.

[caradoc2000]

Sentibunny wrote...

Is it wrong of me to just opt out of playing the first Mass Effect, at least for now?

Of course not, you are entitled to play it the way you are comfortable with - I did the same for the third game. ME1 was fun, ME2 not.

[Sentibunny]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I've decided I'm going to finish Mass Effect 3's story with my Sentinel.

I actually can't play the first game without starting over anyway, because I accidentally entered a boss fight at low health with 0 medi-gels. So it all kind of worked out in the end. But I can see the beauty in the first game a lot more. I was very frustrated when I posted this thread.

Thanks

[a pepper]

I think you should play it for the story, but if it's a chore, just try to get through it as fast as you can. None of the side quests have any major impact on the story of the other games, so you can skip them without missing too much.

The sad fact is, Mass Effect is a terrible game. It's a decent Sci-Fi movie, but take out the storytelling and it is an awful, awful game. I hate playing it. Luckily, I play on PC so I can breeze through it using cheats and don't have to suffer loading times, Playing it on console must be torture.

And no, you shouldn't feel guilty. You asked for the game thinking it would be as good as ME2, it's not your fault that it isn't.

And for the record, the game isn't bad because it's 5 years old, it's bad because most of it is really poorly designed. I bought it in 2009 and it was just as bad then as it is now.

Modifié par a pepper, 15 décembre 2012 - 11:28 .

[Sentibunny]

Probably what I'm gonna do once I finish this character.

[voteDC]

a pepper wrote...

The sad fact is, Mass Effect is a terrible game.

No it isn't.

It is however a game that requires that you put in more thought to how you approach the combat, unlike in the next two games where the shooter aspect is pushed over the stats.

Despite its shooter look, Mass Effect 1 runs on a dice-roll system. The ability to take down enemies doesn't just rely on your ability to place a cross-hair but also on how you train your Shepard.

If people don't like that system, that fine, but to write it off as a bad game simply because you don't like it is wrong in my opinion.

Not playing the first game would leave you with a very hollow feeling second and third game. The NPCs you'd miss may not impact the story on a grand scale but it really does help make them feel much more that it is your Shepard you are playing as.

Modifié par voteDC, 15 décembre 2012 - 01:50 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

I remember when I first tried ME1, it took a while to get into the game. I actually quit before getting to the Citadel my first try, and shelved the game for months, doing other things.

Gave it another chance, and totally loved the game. There's a learning curve (especially with the Mako) but it's well worth the effort. It's not a perfect game, but I think it has the best atmosphere of all the games in the series.

You do need to approach it differently than ME2 or ME3 though. Take your time, explore the Citadel, talk to people, read the codex, immerce yourself in the mass effect universe that is fleshed out the best in ME1.

The combat isn't as polished as the latter games, but once you get used to it, it's not a serious problem. I don't even dislike the Mako anymore. (I would rather have the Mako in ME2, than the overly fragile Hammerhead)

I think out of the series I have most replays with ME2, but ME1 comes a close second. ME3 I've only played all the way through once, lost interest before finishing it again.

So I definitely recommend giving ME1 another chance, and taking your time with it.

[voteDC]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

The combat isn't as polished as the latter games

I disagree to be honest.

The problem seems to be that because Mass Effect looks like a shooter the assumption is that it'll play just like a shooter, with the player's skill being the defining point.

However that isn't how it works. While the combat in ME2 and 3 has a bullet at its core, Mass Effect 1 has dice.

Stats are just as, if not more so, important to the ME1 combat experience as the player's ability to place a cross-hair. So if you approach the game with the mind-set of rolling for inititive then the whole thing begins to "make sense".

Going in with the thought that you alone are going to decide accuracy is just going to frustrate.

In short I think the combat in Mass Effect 1 is no less polished than in the following two. It just operates on a different set of rules.

[Sentibunny]

Now I want to finish my character on me1... Like I said though, I'm at a boss battle and my whole squad is on low health with no medi-gel, sos I'm pretty much screwed.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Sentibunny wrote...

Now I want to finish my character on me1... Like I said though, I'm at a boss battle and my whole squad is on low health with no medi-gel, sos I'm pretty much screwed.

How far are you into the game? Do you have any prior saves that you could continue from? Relying only on quicksave is a big no-no that most people learn the hard way.

You may also try to temporarily lower difficulty for that battle (I think thats possible in ME1... is it?) to get through.

If you do get through the battle, or decide to start over, I'd suggest putting, as armor enhancements, the medical enhancements for all companions that don't regenerate health otherwise. That'll save you having to burn through your medigel. Also, having a biotic with you in your party is a good idea; biotic powers are very powerful in the game.

[Sentibunny]

I'm not that far into it. I obtained Spectre status and the Normandy is mine, and my first mission was to Theros. I went into the Thorian fight with low health and it's too hard. I don't think the creepers drop medi-gel either...

How do I put the armor enhancements on? I have some upgrades on my armor, if that's what you mean?

[Swordfishtrombone]

Sentibunny wrote...

I'm not that far into it. I obtained Spectre status and the Normandy is mine, and my first mission was to Theros. I went into the Thorian fight with low health and it's too hard. I don't think the creepers drop medi-gel either...

How do I put the armor enhancements on? I have some upgrades on my armor, if that's what you mean?

Yes, meant upgrades. Just a terminology mixup in my head.

Just a recommendation without spoilers; if you do restart, I'd recommend going after Leara T'Soni first, or at least making sure that when you do theros, you have some good biotic powers at your disposal; those help a lot when it comes to creepers.

[Sentibunny]

Wow, thanks! I don't think that I have the upgrades yet, but Tali has first aid, and my health is regenerating slowly now. I lowered the difficulty and the asari clones are a breeze now. Thanks! Gonna continue this character.

[PsiFive]

Sentibunny wrote...

Wow, thanks! I don't think that I have the upgrades yet, but Tali has first aid, and my health is regenerating slowly now. I lowered the difficulty and the asari clones are a breeze now. Thanks! Gonna continue this character.

*Thumbs up*

As a general non-spoilery bit of advice it can be worth, both as a new player and with a low level Shepard, doing some of the side missions before getting into plot worlds. Liara is a useful addition to your team, especially if you're playing Shepard as a Soldier (my Soldier Sheps go absolutely everywhere with just Liara and Tali - lethal team) but to get to her you have arguably the two hardest fights for a low level character in the entire game. Feros, as you're finding, has its challenges and there are a couple of nasty moments on Noveria too. These fights can all have the potential to turn into a real slog if you don't have the right team members to help with skills Shepard doesn't have or if you've yet to get your hands on decent weapons (the starting ones are mostly pretty weak) or both.

[a pepper]

voteDC wrote...

a pepper wrote...

The sad fact is, Mass Effect is a terrible game.

No it isn't.

It is however a game that requires that you put in more thought to how you approach the combat, unlike in the next two games where the shooter aspect is pushed over the stats.

Despite its shooter look, Mass Effect 1 runs on a dice-roll system. The ability to take down enemies doesn't just rely on your ability to place a cross-hair but also on how you train your Shepard.

If people don't like that system, that fine, but to write it off as a bad game simply because you don't like it is wrong in my opinion.

Not playing the first game would leave you with a very hollow feeling second and third game. The NPCs you'd miss may not impact the story on a grand scale but it really does help make them feel much more that it is your Shepard you are playing as.

Yeah, it is. I didn't say anything about the combat style, I'm certainly not a fan of it, it's actually the lowes on my list of criticisms. I'm curious what you mean by Dice-Roll system though.

This is why I don't like the game:

1. The sheer amount of time spent doing absolutely nothing that challenges or entertains you.

Especially if you actually want the full game experience and do all the side-quests. For starters, the Mako moves exceptionally slowly, even on the few areas of flat terrain you encounter, and the same goes for on foot; it feels like you're watching Shepard jog in slow-motion. 

And then there's the map design. If I have something I want to do on the Citadel, I set course for it on the Galaxy map. Then I have to walk to the front of the ship, wait for the Airlock to cycle (loading screen), then walk to the elevator, ride the elevator (loading screen), walk to a fast travel terminal (loading screen), then walk to my destination, do whatever I was supposed to do, and then go through the whole thing again to get back to the Normandy. This is the same on all the hub worlds, and is obviously exacerbated by how slow Shepard moves.

The same goes in the Mako, you usually land far away from the main objective on a planet, and the secondaries (minderals, artifacts, anomalies) are spread all over the map. Combat is rare and not particularly exciting. The rough terrain serves as more of an irritation than a challenge. You can either spend a lot of time driving around it, or a lot of time driving over it. Either way it's dull.

In both cases, you're spending minutes at a time just holding down W (or left analogue stick on a console). There's no music, there's no dialogue, there's no navigation puzzles, there's no chance of you dying. For comparison, the Grand Theft Auto games also feature long periods where you're just travelling to a destination, but you've got radio stations, you've got fast cars, things you can crash into, cops, pedestrians, other traffic, stunt jumps. And even with all that, it can get tiresome after a while, so Rockstar implemented Taxis in GTAIV so you can move between any two parts of the map in a matter of seconds if you prefer.

2. Repetitiveness.

Sure, most games essentially boil down to a few different game mechanics that you repeat through the entire game, and most games re-use objects and assets to populate different maps, but Mass Effect (1) employs so little variation in map design and gameplay it's infuriating.

For starters, every side-quest you can access from the galaxy map is essentially identical; you land on a very rocky uninhabited planet, or a spaceship that looks and feels just like the last one you visited. You drive the Mako to a base, shoot everyone, and then recover something from one of the rooms at the far end. There are only 4 different base maps in the whole game; the underground compound, the above ground compound, the mine shaft, and the derelict freighter. Each one of these appears multiple times, sometimes during the same mission, and they all have exactly the same layout and decor, the only difference is how the crates are laid out. 

Once your business is done, you scower the place for loot, which involves doing the same decryption/electronics mini-game half a dozen times, then leave. If you want to recover minerals or investigate anomalies and wreckage, you have to drive to them, find the same crashed escape pod or prefab model you did on the last planet do that same mini-game again, and maybe Sheperd says something about a mummified corpse (though most of the time it comes up as text because they didn't want to pay Mark Meer). And sometimes there's a Thresher Maw.

Then there's the shoot-outs, which are all the same. You have the same 3 NPC types yelling the same 3 lines of dialogue, they all move the same way, will rarely follow you through doors, and all you have to do to win is keep firing all your guns and powers until they're all dead. The only target prioritisation you need to do is to fire at the closest one to you.

3. The Economy/inventory system.

This one is basically a mixture of the previous two - it's repetitive and time consuming, and just really poorly thought out. Every time you visit a shop, you have to wait for the seller to say his greeting, then pick "I want to buy something", and then possibly have to pick between different item categories. If you want to buy something from a different category, you have to go through it again. If you've got a lot of items you want to sell, you have to go through every individual item on the whole list (there's no way of sorting them) and click "sell" for every individual item, and there can be dozens of them.

And the stores are mostly useless anyway. Early in the game, most of the items in the inventory are unaffordable, by the time you've made enough money to buy them, you've probably picked up enough stuff from dead enemies and crates that you don't need to buy any, and the stuff you're getting for free on the battlefield is usually a much higher level than what you can buy in stores. The stores will still stock level III weapons and mods when you're having to melt down level X mods because you have too much. Even on the rare occasions when the store has something you want to buy (spectre gear), it only carries one of each item. You can't even buy omni-gel, medi-gel or grenades, which are the only three consumables in the game (which is a criticism I have of all 3 ME games).

The battlefield pick-ups are stupid too. You can pick up dozens of the same item type just by killing enemies, and even more through looting, yet you only have 7 squadmates, some of whom can't use all the still you pick up, and there's a 150 item limit on your inventory. When you need to melt some of it down into omni-gel to make room (despite a 999 cap on omni gel), you have to select each and every item individually, click "reduce to omni-gel", and then "yes" when it asks if you're sure for every single one. Again, there's no way of even sorting them so you can make the process quicker.

And, most mods are pretty pointless, the advantages you get from most of them are usually insiginificant, making the choice redundant.

4. Leveling up.

All the enemies and rewards in the game scale to your level, so there's absolutely not point in having a leveling up system in this game. As soon as your powers get stronger, your enemies will too. You unlock more damaging weapons, more protective armour, but your ememies get the same upgrade. If you don't level up, neither do your opponents. There is essentially no advantage to attaining a level 50 character other than the import bonus for ME2.

5. The Combat

In Mass Effect 2 you face a great variety of different enemies, each with different combinations of shields, barriers and armor, each with it's own style of combat. You have to prioritise your targets, move from cover to cover, and pick the right gun and the right powers for each adversary. Indeed it's often wise to pick your squad and loadout according to what resistance you expect to encounter.

As I mentioned earlier, Mass Effect's combat is basically about firing everything you have at your enemies one by one until they're all dead. Enemies usually just walk right at you, and taking cover is usually pointless.

It's also very slow and clunky, and the weapons are poorly balanced. I can do everything right in a firefight, and then happen to get unlucky and be hit by a biotic attack and get killed before I can pick myself up. In most situations you're better off sticking to the pistol, because the assault rifles do lower damage and have no advantage other than rate of fire. Sniper rifles can be great, but situations where you're fighting at range are infrequent. Shotguns barely seem to do any damage, even at point blank.

The Mako is much the same. you just keep firing your guns and fire your thrusters to dodge rockets.

I don't mind the one-dimentional combat so much, it's like this in a lot of older games, but it's definitely not something that makes me want to keep playing the game.

As I said, the game's only redeeming feature is the storyline/dialgue stuff.

Modifié par a pepper, 16 décembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[OnyxFuego]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

I remember when I first tried ME1, it took a while to get into the game. I actually quit before getting to the Citadel my first try, and shelved the game for months, doing other things.

Gave it another chance, and totally loved the game. There's a learning curve (especially with the Mako) but it's well worth the effort. It's not a perfect game, but I think it has the best atmosphere of all the games in the series.

Have you been peeking through my bedroom window? 

The same with me. I could not stand ME1 when I first got it in 2009. I was thinking it was some overhyped crap. . It sat on the shelf for months before I tried it again and I am glad I did as I got into it. It may be harder to do that coming from ME2 first and knowing, storywise, what has happened in ME2 already from ME1. 

I don't even dislike the Mako anymore.

Guess you haven't been peeking through my window then. lol

[NathanW18]

a pepper wrote...

I don't mind the one-dimentional combat so much, it's like this in a lot of older games, but it's definitely not something that makes me want to keep playing the game.

As I said, the game's only redeeming feature is the storyline/dialgue stuff.

Fantastic post and I almost agree with every word.

The only bit I don't agree with is the enemies scaling to your level. I played the game first on 360 and didn't do all the side missions. I found one of the compulsary missions extremely difficult. It really pissed me off, because it just felt cheap. I just finished the game on PS3 and did every side mission. I found the game way easier to play than my first try, because I was a a higher level and had better guns.

Everything else you've said is spot on in my eyes. The worst parts about the game are the Mako and the side missions all being exactly the same. It makes things quite boring.

Modifié par NathanW18, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:18 .

[kyles3]

I just got to the puzzle on Noveria and now I'm ready to just not play this game.

[a pepper]

100 omni-gel. Or YouTube it, it's easy.

[Sentibunny]

That puzzle on Noveria was lame. I just used Youtube for it.

Anyway, STATUS UPDATE GAIZ!:

Almost done with ME1. I really like experiencing the story... I feel really bad for my first Shepard, the one I started in ME2 before I had the trilogy. I don't think I'll play him again.

However, I love the Sentinel, so I'm probably going to change my new Shep into a Sentinel when I import him into ME2. Infiltrator is fun in the first game, and it's fun in ME3 multiplayer, but I just don't like it in the newer games.

[The Grey Ranger]

That Noveria puzzle has been in so many games it's ridiculous. It's just a Towers of Hanoi game

[kyles3]

The Grey Ranger wrote...

That Noveria puzzle has been in so many games it's ridiculous. It's just a Towers of Hanoi game

Well then I guess I haven't played any of those games. It's not that hard once you know the rules, but I had to go on the wiki to find out what those were. 

[Swordfishtrombone]

kyles3 wrote...

I just got to the puzzle on Noveria and now I'm ready to just not play this game.

At first my reaction was "There's a puzzle on Noveria?"

I guess i've encountered the Hanoi Towers so many times, in various places, that it's ceased to be a puzzle for me anymore.