171 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

]How does overlord not count? It doesnot matterifit related to the catlayst motivation or not. If organics have conflict with synthetics in any way, it's a point for his arguement no matter what.

The conflict in Overlord occurs because David's brain is overridden by a VI, not because of Cerberus controlling anything. If anything, Overlord is the VIs fault.

Unless you're saying that because synthetics fight organics that it's a prominent theme, in which case I would call you an idiot.

[Dr_Extrem]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

not from the catalysts pov ..

it just atstes, that synthetics will kill organics and that the organics only fault is, to create synthetics in the first place.

but this does not really matter .. even if they intended to foreshadow the conflict between synthetics and organics as the overarching plot, it was not very successful. the big reapers showing up or sending their pawns were just too obvious.

I think you should revisit the conversation because that's not exactly how it goes.

Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence. In order to fullfill their purpose, synthetics must be allowed to evolve faster than their creators. When this occurs, synthetics no longer want to be tools. Because of this, conflict is inevitable.

Outside of this, I don't particularly agree that this conflict will result in the 100% death rate of organics. Hence why I opt for the Destroy ending.

i maybe oversimplified the matter ... shame on me ..

but still, the reapers and their pawns were too obvious as the overarching plot. to the majority, the synthetic vs. organic-plot was a side plot, resolved on rannoch.

Yea, the series seemed to change directions a lot. I still notice some of that Dark Energy foreshadowing. That subplot seems to be just hanging there for now.

my guess is that dark energy was meant to take a big place in me3 ... but they dropped it for the organic vs. synthetic theme .. (what failed even in me3) ... at this point, me2 was already shipped and could not be altered.

they changed something big between me2 and 3 ...


dark energy gets more attention than organics vs, synthecits (outside the geth/quarian conflict).

I don't know about it getting more attention, but it feels weird to introduce the conflict without ever resolving it. I think it'll be revisited through DLC or maybe in a future Mass Effect game.

my approach is more practical .. it was dropped, because drew .k left the writing team .. it was obviously his brainchild.

i think, that the plot was just dropped and not mentioned again ..

[Steelcan]

The Dark Energy plotline was worse than the star child.

[dreman9999]

IsaacShep wrote...

Bioware didn't want us to see Geth/synthetics differently. On the contrary, they wanted us to love Geth & EDI, that's the only way the ending they planned could achieve the effect they were aiming for. They wanted players to have a hard choice. They gave each ending a down side. Destroy - Geth & EDI die. Control - Shep more or less dies. Synthesis - Shep dies completely + do you have the right to change everyone moral question? If they didn't (succesfuly) make people care about Geth/EDI, there would never be any big deal about Destroying killing them and the ending wouldn't be a hard choice at all.

You make like it or not, but it's clear what they wanted (a hard ending choice) and frankly, they succeeded with it.

And no, they didn't want the players to agree with the Catalyst. Why would they if they THEMSELVES established that the Catalyst is wrong?

Wait? How did they not make synthetic's feel differenly. We had an entire mission with Legion, the consept that Legion called himself a group, the issue of Legion brings up the fact synthestics think with numbers and organics think chemically, and a prothean bluntly bring the issues up again.

[shepskisaac]

Steelcan wrote...

The Dark Energy plotline was worse than the star child.

With the Reapers? Hell yeah. They could never jump over the fact that Reapers were actually making the poblem they were trying to solve even worse.

It could be used for ME4 though. Let's say that the Crucible's use accelerated Dark Energy spread the effects start to get noticed in ME4. As for Heastorm, they can always say that it was a site of proto-Crucible test-use, hence why that one sun got older.

[shepskisaac]

dreman9999 wrote...

Wait? How did they not make synthetic's feel differenly. We had an entire mission with Legion, the consept that Legion called himself a group, the issue of Legion brings up the fact synthestics think with numbers and organics think chemically, and a prothean bluntly bring the issues up again.

But we still treated them like people (with rights to live etc). Protheans are different to us as well, they can comminute with touch, everything they touch gives them information, it's a level of communication and info-sharing we will never get, but that doesn't change that we think of Protheans as living sapient creatures that deserve the same rights.

[Kabooooom]

The conflict in Overlord occurs because David's brain is overridden by a VI, not because of Cerberus controlling anything. If anything, Overlord is the VIs fault.

The entire purpose of the Overlord project was to find a way to control the Geth as an army for Cerberus. So I'm not sure what you are talking about there.

And beyond that they were using the autistic mind to "establish a connection" and understanding with the Geth, in an attempt to exert control over them. It is really quite amusing foreshadowing, in retrospect, especially since it was an optional DLC and feels almost like an afterthought.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:20 .

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]How does overlord not count? It doesnot matterifit related to the catlayst motivation or not. If organics have conflict with synthetics in any way, it's a point for his arguement no matter what.

The conflict in Overlord occurs because David's brain is overridden by a VI, not because of Cerberus controlling anything. If anything, Overlord is the VIs fault.

Unless you're saying that because synthetics fight organics that it's a prominent theme, in which case I would call you an idiot.

Did we playthe same dlc? A vi did not over ride anything. Everything that happen was just David going crazyafter being plugged in. He had full control of all the tech, he just lost control of his emotions.

Added, even if that did happen, and it did not, that still counts as as synthetic/organic conflict. If does notmatter if ether party is will or not. One of the problems with the conflictis that synthetics are forced to rebel. It's not just the sythetics rebeling on their own with.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Dr_Extrem wrote...
my approach is more practical .. it was dropped, because drew .k left the writing team .. it was obviously his brainchild.

i think, that the plot was just dropped and not mentioned again ..

Occam's razor, I concur.
"Don't get too attached to a plot"

[dreman9999]

IsaacShep wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Wait? How did they not make synthetic's feel differenly. We had an entire mission with Legion, the consept that Legion called himself a group, the issue of Legion brings up the fact synthestics think with numbers and organics think chemically, and a prothean bluntly bring the issues up again.

But we still treated them like people (with rights to live etc). Protheans are different to us as well, they can comminute with touch, everything they touch gives them information, it's a level of communication and info-sharing we will never get, but that doesn't change that we think of Protheans as living sapient creatures that deserve the same rights.

But them being different has nothing to do with the consept of right to live. Syntheticvs organic doesnot mean one side wantsthe other dead. It means both side find conflict with one anotherreguardless if ether sides wants to fight or not.
The geth are shown to be different from us but besides how differentt hey are we can co-exsist with them.

[o Ventus]

Kabooooom wrote...

The conflict in Overlord occurs because David's brain is overridden by a VI, not because of Cerberus controlling anything. If anything, Overlord is the VIs fault.

The entire purpose of the Overlord project was to find a way to control the Geth as an army for Cerberus. So I'm not sure what you are talking about there.

Check the conversation. I said the CONFLICT in Overlord didn't stem from Cerberus.

[Dr_Extrem]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
my approach is more practical .. it was dropped, because drew .k left the writing team .. it was obviously his brainchild.

i think, that the plot was just dropped and not mentioned again ..

Occam's razor, I concur.
"Don't get too attached to a plot"

but in this case, they were not able to "tidy up" - big mistake.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Did we playthe same dlc? A vi did not over ride anything. Everything that happen was just David going crazyafter being plugged in. He had full control of all the tech, he just lost control of his emotions.

I guess I was hallucinating when Gavin Archer told Shepard that the VI they linked David to overrode his brain.

Added, even if that did happen, and it did not, that still counts as as synthetic/organic conflict. If does notmatter if ether party is will or not. One of the problems with the conflictis that synthetics are forced to rebel. It's not just the sythetics rebeling on their own with.

There kind of needs to be a rebellion for that to happen. Overlord wasn't a rebellion. And saying that the theme is prominent JUST BECAUSE synthetics fight organics, without lookin at the context, is beyond retarded. 

[Kabooooom]

Check the conversation. I said the CONFLICT in Overlord didn't stem from Cerberus.

That's some disconnect there, man. Cerberus started the project in an attempt to do something that most people would consider to be immoral and incredibly dangerous. Then, their lead scientist then took it upon himself to do something which most would consider to be immoral and incredibly careless. This resulted directly in conflict, solely due to the idiocy of Cerberus and Archer.

If that doesn't ultimately stem from Cerberus then I don't know what does. That's like loading a gun, and taking off the safety, and then accidentally firing it into your foot later, but not placing the blame firmly on yourself for being such a ****** in the first place.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:30 .

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

Kabooooom wrote...

The conflict in Overlord occurs because David's brain is overridden by a VI, not because of Cerberus controlling anything. If anything, Overlord is the VIs fault.

The entire purpose of the Overlord project was to find a way to control the Geth as an army for Cerberus. So I'm not sure what you are talking about there.

Check the conversation. I said the CONFLICT in Overlord didn't stem from Cerberus.

That does not matter. The still are the oncethat did the project.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Did we playthe same dlc? A vi did not over ride anything. Everything that happen was just David going crazyafter being plugged in. He had full control of all the tech, he just lost control of his emotions.

I guess I was hallucinating when Gavin Archer told Shepard that the VI they linked David to overrode his brain.

Added, even if that did happen, and it did not, that still counts as as synthetic/organic conflict. If does notmatter if ether party is will or not. One of the problems with the conflictis that synthetics are forced to rebel. It's not just the sythetics rebeling on their own with.

There kind of needs to be a rebellion for that to happen. Overlord wasn't a rebellion. And saying that the theme is prominent JUST BECAUSE synthetics fight organics, without lookin at the context, is beyond retarded. 

1. You did not get by the dlc that was a lie to cover up what he did. He also told you his brother WILLINGLY volenteered for the project....And then you found out it was a lie.
2.No rebellion? All synthetic platforms killed off nearly all the staff on the project. They dave was trying to upload himself to the rest of the galexy.
That was a rebellion.

Also, synthectics vs organics conflict means oganics and synthetics getinto conflicts no matter what the reason.

[o Ventus]

Kabooooom wrote...

That's some disconnect there, man. Cerberus started the project in an attempt to do something that most people would consider to be immoral and incredibly dangerous. Then, their lead scientist then took it upon himself to do something which most would consider to be immoral and incredibly careless. This resulted directly in conflict, solely due to the idiocy of Cerberus and Archer.

If that doesn't ultimately stem from Cerberus then I don't know what does. That's like loading a gun, and taking off the safety, and then accidentally firing it into your foot later, but not placing the blame firmly on yourself for being such a ****** in the first place.

Unless it is directly stated that the VI went rampant because Cerberus hooked it into David, then Overlord is an invalid example. Just because conflict is present doesn't mean you are correct.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

Kabooooom wrote...

That's some disconnect there, man. Cerberus started the project in an attempt to do something that most people would consider to be immoral and incredibly dangerous. Then, their lead scientist then took it upon himself to do something which most would consider to be immoral and incredibly careless. This resulted directly in conflict, solely due to the idiocy of Cerberus and Archer.

If that doesn't ultimately stem from Cerberus then I don't know what does. That's like loading a gun, and taking off the safety, and then accidentally firing it into your foot later, but not placing the blame firmly on yourself for being such a ****** in the first place.

Unless it is directly stated that the VI went rampant because Cerberus hooked it into David, then Overlord is an invalid example. Just because conflict is present doesn't mean you are correct.

Were you deaf and blind when you looked into David's memories? David's memory shows there was no VI. His brother only used him "ALONE".
That was a lie to coverup what he was really doing.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:42 .

[TheProtheans]

Steelcan wrote...

The Dark Energy plotline was worse than the star child.

Depends what you rate it on.
Makes less sense? No not really, nothing in Mass effect 3 makes any sense.
Uneventful, boring? Impossible to say, what we got now is lackluster.
So you must rate on something else.

But anyway I don't think Bioware copying other peoples work should be rewarded.

[MegaSovereign]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

not from the catalysts pov ..

it just atstes, that synthetics will kill organics and that the organics only fault is, to create synthetics in the first place.

but this does not really matter .. even if they intended to foreshadow the conflict between synthetics and organics as the overarching plot, it was not very successful. the big reapers showing up or sending their pawns were just too obvious.

I think you should revisit the conversation because that's not exactly how it goes.

Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence. In order to fullfill their purpose, synthetics must be allowed to evolve faster than their creators. When this occurs, synthetics no longer want to be tools. Because of this, conflict is inevitable.

Outside of this, I don't particularly agree that this conflict will result in the 100% death rate of organics. Hence why I opt for the Destroy ending.

i maybe oversimplified the matter ... shame on me ..

but still, the reapers and their pawns were too obvious as the overarching plot. to the majority, the synthetic vs. organic-plot was a side plot, resolved on rannoch.

Yea, the series seemed to change directions a lot. I still notice some of that Dark Energy foreshadowing. That subplot seems to be just hanging there for now.

my guess is that dark energy was meant to take a big place in me3 ... but they dropped it for the organic vs. synthetic theme .. (what failed even in me3) ... at this point, me2 was already shipped and could not be altered.

they changed something big between me2 and 3 ...


dark energy gets more attention than organics vs, synthecits (outside the geth/quarian conflict).

I don't know about it getting more attention, but it feels weird to introduce the conflict without ever resolving it. I think it'll be revisited through DLC or maybe in a future Mass Effect game.

my approach is more practical .. it was dropped, because drew .k left the writing team .. it was obviously his brainchild.

i think, that the plot was just dropped and not mentioned again ..

Hardly practicaly thinking.

Just because he came up with the plotline that doesn't mean the other writers can't build on it. For example, the writers trade the characters and subplots they are responsible for every game. It was probably dropped because it sounds more convoluted to link the dark energy issue to the Reaper's motivations, which is what Drew K was planning.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:42 .

[dreman9999]

TheProtheans wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Dark Energy plotline was worse than the star child.

Depends what you rate it on.
Makes less sense? No not really, nothing in Mass effect 3 makes any sense.
Uneventful, boring? Impossible to say, what we got now is lackluster.
So you must rate on something else.

But anyway I don't think Bioware copying other peoples work should be rewarded.

Why are you even here any more?

[eddieoctane]

Perhaps I didn't chose the best possible words. I meant that the Geth weren't this frighteningly unknowable existence. They had a different process, but were still relatable enough for the whole "organics and synthetics are too different to get along" spiel to make as much sense as BioWare intended. The Geth weren't alien enough for everyone to not be able to get along. Even the "consensus" thing was akin to democracy. Different, yes, but not so different that we should always try to destroy them.

Honestly, I wish the ending would have stopped after "best seats in the house," before all this crap was introduced.

[Applepie_Svk]

Steelcan wrote...

The Dark Energy plotline was worse than the star child.

That´s like an opinion man, I wouldn´t mind to have Dark Energy instead... it sounds better then Ya Dawgh I heard you like...

[MegaSovereign]

How does humanity's genetic diversity solve the dark energy problem?

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Were you deaf and blind when you looked into David's memories? David's memory shows there was no VI. His brother only used him "ALONE".
That was a lie to coverup what he was really doing.

Were you? In those same memories, one of the Cerberus scientists directly says "the VI has gone rogue, David can't control it" (paraphrased).

It's also said in one of the station recordings. Prometheus, I think.

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .