155 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

@AshenSugar. You were lucky to avoid it this long. I'd continue being blistfully ignorant. Unless of course, you don't mind plotholes and down right continuity errors.

Sovereign Body remaining in tact was bad enough.

Then I heard about the Citadel orbiting a planet..

Now I hear that the Citadel is the Alliances seat of power? Are you f***ing kidding me!? This is absolutely ridiculous! And after Deception to give the okay to something like this is just a spit in the face of fans that actually care about lore and continuity in Mass Effect. These fans want it to be intriguing and as immersive as possible. Stuff like this ruins that.

Well, there's $10 they aint getting from me, again.

This sucks, Mass Effect is still my favourite game series ever. But to see it keep slipping like this... Damn it hurts.

[AshenSugar]

Hehe, I have Deception - Not read it yet, but I'm looking forward to encountering these whopping plot holes everyone keeps mentioning.

In any case, I can kind-of lve with the Citadel orbiting a planet, though the logic behind it is unknowable. I can only assume that the writers presumed that those watching would not realise that it was a space station unless it had a planet in the background.

If they have really made it the Alliance seat of power though... it demonstrates a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of entire Mass Effect universe at the most basic level.

It would be akin to creating a Star Trek tie-in which saw the Ferengi controlling and directing Starfleet.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Jadebaby]

AshenSugar wrote...

Hehe, I have Deception - Not read it yet, but I'm looking forward to encountering these whopping plot holes everyone keeps mentioning.

Think about not reading it, they actually took it back to the drawing board and are going to release an altered version.

In any case, I can kind-of lve with the Citadel orbiting a planet, though the logic behind it is unknowable. I can only assume that the writers presumed that those watching would not realise that it was a space station unless it had a planet in the background.

I don't understand how the Citadel could be mistaken for anything other than a space station... I mean even the Death Star didn't need any background planet to go, "hey look at the difference."

Nevertheless, I do agree that this is the most minor flaw. Next would be Soveriegn remaining in tact and being dragged off by the Alliance fleet *serious facepalm* And then finally..

If they have really made it the Alliance seat of power though... it demonstrates a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of entire Mass Effect universe at the most basic level.

It would be akin to creating a Star Trek tie-in which saw the Ferengi controlling and directing Starfleet.

That.

[Clayless]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

Interesting? So Sovereign's corpse being completely intact, the Citadel being in orbit around a fu**ing planet, and being described as the Alliance's SEAT OF POWER are just minor issues?

retcons. retcons everywhere. Don´t worry Billy lore is dead, so why would BioWare care anymore... consumers most of the time don´t give a **** about quality anyway and those few which cares are just haters which don´t understand how art and artist works...

It's not a retcon, it's a mistake that's ignored by ME3.

Seriously people are complaining about something that is ignored by canon and trying to pass it off like it's a retcon. I swear people just throw around words they read off TvTropes without fully understanding what they're saying. Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

[TheProtheans]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

Interesting? So Sovereign's corpse being completely intact, the Citadel being in orbit around a fu**ing planet, and being described as the Alliance's SEAT OF POWER are just minor issues?

retcons. retcons everywhere. Don´t worry Billy lore is dead, so why would BioWare care anymore... consumers most of the time don´t give a **** about quality anyway and those few which cares are just haters which don´t understand how art and artist works...

It's not a retcon, it's a mistake that's ignored by ME3.

Seriously people are complaining about something that is ignored by canon and trying to pass it off like it's a retcon. I swear people just throw around words they read off TvTropes without fully understanding what they're saying. Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

If Shepard was a biotic and Miranda ask for someone with biotics to help her fend off some enemies with biotic explosions.
Wouldn't it be odd if Shepard was the only biotic and just stood there and did nothing.
Only to be mentioned later that he is a master biotic.

While it may seem minor, it is quite a problem for me.
The Citadel as a seat of power for humans follows the same logic.

[Jadebaby]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

Opinion noted.

[Jadebaby]

TheProtheans wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

Interesting? So Sovereign's corpse being completely intact, the Citadel being in orbit around a fu**ing planet, and being described as the Alliance's SEAT OF POWER are just minor issues?

retcons. retcons everywhere. Don´t worry Billy lore is dead, so why would BioWare care anymore... consumers most of the time don´t give a **** about quality anyway and those few which cares are just haters which don´t understand how art and artist works...

It's not a retcon, it's a mistake that's ignored by ME3.

Seriously people are complaining about something that is ignored by canon and trying to pass it off like it's a retcon. I swear people just throw around words they read off TvTropes without fully understanding what they're saying. Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

If Shepard was a biotic and Miranda ask for someone with biotics to help her fend off some enemies with biotic explosions.
Wouldn't it be odd if Shepard was the only biotic and just stood there and did nothing.
Only to be mentioned later that he is a master biotic.

While it may seem minor, it is quite a problem for me.
The Citadel as a seat of power for humans follows the same logic.

No way, the Citadel as a seat of power for humans is a way bigger problem them biotic mis-hap.

[Clayless]

TheProtheans wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

It's not a retcon, it's a mistake that's ignored by ME3.

Seriously people are complaining about something that is ignored by canon and trying to pass it off like it's a retcon. I swear people just throw around words they read off TvTropes without fully understanding what they're saying. Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

If Shepard was a biotic and Miranda ask for someone with biotics to help her fend off some enemies with biotic explosions.
Wouldn't it be odd if Shepard was the only biotic and just stood there and did nothing.
Only to be mentioned later that he is a master biotic.

While it may seem minor, it is quite a problem for me.
The Citadel as a seat of power for humans follows the same logic.

Even your analogy isn't a retcon.

[TheProtheans]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

It's not a retcon, it's a mistake that's ignored by ME3.

Seriously people are complaining about something that is ignored by canon and trying to pass it off like it's a retcon. I swear people just throw around words they read off TvTropes without fully understanding what they're saying. Such a minor complaint too, it's so sad.

If Shepard was a biotic and Miranda ask for someone with biotics to help her fend off some enemies with biotic explosions.
Wouldn't it be odd if Shepard was the only biotic and just stood there and did nothing.
Only to be mentioned later that he is a master biotic.

While it may seem minor, it is quite a problem for me.
The Citadel as a seat of power for humans follows the same logic.

Even your analogy isn't a retcon.

I didn't say it was a retcon, it just doesn't make any damn sense.
If they ignored it, ok that is fine because I will just assume that they lost control before they got the chance to hold it long term.
But if it gets mentioned later, it kinda ruins the idea that I had that there was no human power their.
There is nothing to suggest it is a seat of human power in ME2 and ME3.

It  is stupid to establish something and then ignore it only to reference it again.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:53 .

[Scottus4]

As long as vega doesn't travel through the omega 4 relay and hits the collector base before Shep, I will be fine.

Pretty much this. By the way, unless the Citadel is actually TREATED like the Alliance's seat of power, and it isn't simply referred to it as such, it isn't a big deal. The floating around a planet thing is pretty weird but wouldn't effect the narrative, neither would dragging away Sovereign intact.

I thought the heat sink situation from ME1=>ME2 was pretty ****ing weird but I didn't think it "ruined" ME2. The only retcon that bothered me was making Anderson an Admiral and Udina the human councilor regardless of your decision in ME1 (really, in ME2). Would it really have been that much of a problem if Council Anderson stayed behind to fight, and then Udina temporarily assumed his position before the coup?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Haven't seen it, can't comment.

[TheProtheans]

Scottus4 wrote...

Pretty much this. By the way, unless the Citadel is actually TREATED like the Alliance's seat of power, and it isn't simply referred to it as such, it isn't a big deal. The floating around a planet thing is pretty weird but wouldn't effect the narrative, neither would dragging away Sovereign intact.

Doesn't effect the narrative.
If you played Mass effect 1 you would know Sovereign was blowing to bits and his bits lead to the reconstruction of damaged wards.
Shepard himself was hit by one of these giant bits that fell off.
We had a dramatic ending because Sovereign was blowing to bits.

But sure it doesn't affect the narrative 
I'm not even sure this is a retcon, Paragon lost is so stupid I consider it a joke and completely in a deluded universe of it's own.

[WhiteKnyght]

Pantanplan wrote...

Interesting? So Sovereign's corpse being completely intact, the Citadel being in orbit around a fu**ing planet, and being described as the Alliance's SEAT OF POWER are just minor issues?

1. Production IG, a Japanese animation studio, did the animating. The error with Sovereign is likely just a mistake. Not that it matters because "How Sovereign blew up" isn't a major plot point.

2. There is a planet near the Citadel. Bekenstein in ME2. Described by Diana Allers in ME3 as being "Right next door to the Citadel"

3. You sure they aren't referring to the Alliance getting a SEAT on the Council? That did happen right after ME1, when this movie is arguably taking place. The Citadel Councilors are treated as if they have more power than their respective governments, so technically Anderson/Udina is powerful than the Alliance Parliament, which is housed at Arcturus.

I suggest you guys get over yourselves and quit acting like every small thing is something huge. Get the **** over it!

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 16 décembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[SpamBot2000]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Not that it matters because "How Sovereign blew up" isn't a major plot point.

Some would argue that an intact dead Reaper might have had an impact on the whole 'dismissal of claims' thing. And thus impact galactic preparedness somewhat.

So there's that... or it could have indoctrinated anyone who investigated it.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 16 décembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[AresKeith]

@GreyNayr

1. Its still Bioware's IP, they need to watch over what others do so they don't make mistakes about their story

2. Bekenstein is NOT near the Citadel, its in another area if you actually paid attention in ME2

3. I'm not sure in

[Reth Shepherd]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Not that it matters because "How Sovereign blew up" isn't a major plot point.

Some would argue that an intact dead Reaper might have had an impact on the whole 'dismissal of claims' thing. And thus impact galactic preparedness somewhat.

So there's that... or it could have indoctrinated anyone who investigated it.

It is a VERY major plot point. In ME2, Anderson says that not having any big or intact pieces to examine were a large part of the reason that the Council was able to dismiss the Reaper claim and treat it like just another Geth ship. Had they had the entire corpse to study, there is no way they could have done that. Also, someone else mentioned the Alliance dragging Sovereign's corpse off. Please tell me Bioware didn't actually have/allow that in there! There is NO WAY the other races would have just let the Alliance have Sovereign! The Salarians and the Turians would have been interested in it, if nobody else! The Alliance just taking it would have caused a major diplomatic crisis.

By the way, other companies have tight control over their IPs. Authors routinely talk about being told what to write, being given huge documents of relevant lore, and sending it in for review time after time after time because something wasn't right. Either Bioware isn't keeping an eye on what other people write for their IP, or they ARE and their Lorekeeper has no frelling clue what the lore is!

[Lars10178]

OperatingWookie wrote...

jdmteggy4life wrote...

its still in development and they say its going to follow the story of the first game i believe and shepard is also going to be male as well.

Really?

Links or it didn't happen.

[Reth Shepherd]

Lars10178 wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

jdmteggy4life wrote...

its still in development and they say its going to follow the story of the first game i believe and shepard is also going to be male as well.

Really?

Links or it didn't happen.

Well, they've been on a retroactive-foreshadowing kick with the Catalyst, so it's probably going to follow the first game so they can work him in. The final product will have one scene (shown in memory after all of the celebrating, and blowing things up, and the entire rest of the movie is over) of Sovereign's bridge (never mind that he almost certainly doesn't have one) with a holographic Catalyst standing there. "You must charge the Citadel, slave that I simultaneously do and don't control utterly! Er, I mean, Sovereign. My arms aren't long enough to reach the control panel for the Citadel, you're going to have to do the work for me! WHY did my creators give me the body of a stupid child?! I CAN'T EVEN WATCH PORNOGRAPHIC MOVIES TO PASS THE TIME, THE BOUNCERS KEEP KICKING ME OUT!!!"

[The Spamming Troll]

it really sucks that im never going to enjoy something ever again with the Mass Effect logo on it.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Reth Shepherd wrote...
...WHY did my creators give me the body of a stupid child?! I CAN'T EVEN WATCH PORNOGRAPHIC MOVIES TO PASS THE TIME, THE BOUNCERS KEEP KICKING ME OUT!!!"

XD!!!

See. This is what the whole thing is REALLY about.
Like when Shepard gets sucked into control, Ghostie is actually the mind of a real person. The problem is that person died while still thinking about "needs." Now, they're taking out their frustrations on the galaxy...

[3DandBeyond]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

AshenSugar wrote...

Hehe, I have Deception - Not read it yet, but I'm looking forward to encountering these whopping plot holes everyone keeps mentioning.

Think about not reading it, they actually took it back to the drawing board and are going to release an altered version.

In any case, I can kind-of lve with the Citadel orbiting a planet, though the logic behind it is unknowable. I can only assume that the writers presumed that those watching would not realise that it was a space station unless it had a planet in the background.

I don't understand how the Citadel could be mistaken for anything other than a space station... I mean even the Death Star didn't need any background planet to go, "hey look at the difference."

Nevertheless, I do agree that this is the most minor flaw. Next would be Soveriegn remaining in tact and being dragged off by the Alliance fleet *serious facepalm* And then finally..

If they have really made it the Alliance seat of power though... it demonstrates a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of entire Mass Effect universe at the most basic level.

It would be akin to creating a Star Trek tie-in which saw the Ferengi controlling and directing Starfleet.

That.

This is exactly true. 

For what it's worth, I don't think they particularly care about continuity or the lore.  There was a huge deal made of it in between ME2 and ME3, that they had a big bible of lore they used in order to keep things straight.  Well, apparently a dog ate it.  While it's true Bioware did not make either of these two things directly-they allowed them to be put into the public eye with the Mass Effect name on them. 

One problem here always is that they continually utilize this exact same story universe-with all the same locales and some of the same characters.  And content is always out of order, chronologically.  Paragon Lost is meant to explain the gap between parts of ME2 and ME3, but is mainly Vega's story.  Wow, no need to explain Vega in the only thing that should be required to get the full story at hand-the games.  The deal with this is that even those that just love all the external material (I don't unless it's totally extraneous) can't agree on how it should be used.  Some use it as the word of God to explain retconning.  Others say don't believe the books or even the codex that's in the game. 

I have a real problem, not just that the books/movies/readable diapers, don't follow the lore of the story, but the freaking games don't themselves-especially ME3.  The Beings of Light might have been Leviathan's story and the kid's story, but it isn't.  The codex talks about ruptured relays and how they mess up the galaxy, but the one seen in Destroy doesn't do any such thing.  The reapers are vulnerable, but hey nothing can be done to stop them so we better hope upon hope and cross our fingers that the Mars hole in the ground that is now the Mars Archives, much larger than Ilos that has disappeared once again, has some plans to make a big weapon that is not a big weapon even though everyone says it's a big weapon.

The other big fact is that the artwork done in Paragon Lost looks like a cheap Saturday cartoon, the graphic novels had actual characters they could use as models to draw from, but instead they feature characters that are supposed to be ones you know, that don't much look like them.  The books set up certain things about characters (many times after we already meet them) and often change what we know about them.  But if you can't be bothered to remember lore for the game, why do so in satellite material?  In fact, the devs really praised the original version of Deception(Hudson did), so it makes you wonder if he read it or even cared as long as it was money coming in.

[3DandBeyond]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

it really sucks that im never going to enjoy something ever again with the Mass Effect logo on it.

Yep, it will always be like some either cruel or stupid joke.

Part of me (when I'm thinking of irrational conspiratorial things) thinks that there was intent there to destroy this series or just to end it.  I'm thinking of some things done by the one person who started to figure prominently in creating ME-when he took over writing.  He created a futile situation in ME2, which is a small model of what happens in ME3 at the end.  It's almost like he wanted his own project, that he created from start to finish so he wanted to get rid of this one.  Then he made it as messed up as he possibly could.

Then, I take off the tin foil and figure it was really just sloppiness and lack of attention to the project.  You look back at many things and can see it's like someone really didn't take charge of the project and make sure all the stories fit together. But, then there are also things that characters say that are like they forgot what they already said.  James and Liara both do that in a big way.

Paragon Lost is lost to me-can't take it seriously. 

[legion999]

Pantanplan wrote...

Interesting? So Sovereign's corpse being completely intact, the Citadel being in orbit around a fu**ing planet, and being described as the Alliance's SEAT OF POWER are just minor issues?

What. Did they play Mass Effect 1 or 2 at all?