294 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Consider the main effects & goals of the Mage Rebellion:

[1] The disintegration of the Orlesian Chantry: it looses control over Circles AND Templars.

[2] The weakening of Orlais (the most powerful civilization in Thedas): Orlesian Civil War.

[3] The liberation of Mages: Mages rule themselves instead of being ruled by others.

And what Tevinter has/is:

[1] A rival Chantry to the Orlesian one: led by the Black Divine.

[2] The ancient and strong enemy of Orlais: Orlais used to be a Tevinter province.

[3] Magocracy: Mages ruled themselves. The absorption of apostatates escaping from the south (such as Feynriel) would strengthen Tevinter.

It wouldn't be surprising for me to discover in DA:I that the Mage Rebellion is actually directly and extensively sponsored by Tevinter. Instead of "studying ancinet Tevinter texts", Anders may have got the recipe for his bomb directly from a helping Magister (the real experts on ancient Tevinter Magic). Other Circles/Apostates would have received similar help from Tevinter as they rose up against the Chantry. The Libertarian Fraternity of Enchanters could have covertly received Tevinter sponsorship for centuries.

======

Moreover, several powerful factors from outside the Imperium itself may also be contributing to its cause:

- The new rise of Magic in Thedas. More Mages are being born than before, and the Templars face a "loosing battle" as Cullen puts it. If this is not a direct result of Tevinter's Magic, it sure is an advantage that they will take notice and make use of.

- The awakening and release of Corypheus. Very importantly, the Legacy DLC takes place before the end of Act 3 of DAII. This means that Corypheus will have time to travel to Tevinter, transfer his essense to a powerful Magister, and help instigate the Mage-Templar War personally. With the purpose of restoring Tevinter to its old glory. I expect to see him again in Inquisition in a different body. And there may be others like him too.

- Flemeth. Given what she is and what she knows, it is very likely that she sees the Imperium as an ally and perhaps even gave them the idea of sponsoring the Mage Rebellion in the first place.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 04 juin 2013 - 01:59 .

[ev76]

That would be a cool tie or realization for the protagonist. It would definitely up the stakes for sure. I hope some of it does tie in to tevinter. I am also hoping da3 leads to a more global war, one the wardens will not be able to ignore.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Directly sponsored by the Emperium, I'm not convinced. Are they adding fuel to an existing fire in order to advance their own ends? I wouldn't be at all surprised.

In any case it's an interesting theory and you might be right. Your double agent idea is cool; reminds me of the double-double-cross that was possible to pull in the Sith Academy in KOTOR (and the very type of choice I would like to be able to make in a future BioWare game). I guess we'll see when Inquisition comes out and we get a chance to play it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I wouldn't find it all that surprising either, but I don't think it's the case. Apparently, the Tevinters really do not give a dang about any non-magister mage, and that goes double for non-Tevinters. Still, since apparently there is a conspiracy going on... well, let's just say I wouldn't be surprised either way.

[upsettingshorts]

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

More accurately, I'm not saying anything.

[thesnake777]

Then Tevinter will be brought to its knees.


Honestly it would not be that surprising. I personally am hoping to deal with Tevinter more.

[Huntress]

I don't know if thats true Op, the only time we saw the tevinter mages in DA2 was at the end of act2 and they were after a relic.

Leliana said a group of trouble makers mages were causing problems for everyone, hawke meet few and of course they were just as crazy as any other mage around anyway this mages had only one goal... leave no survivers.. can't remember what group they were from.. Resolutionists! they split from the Libertarian!
meh I just finished playing Might and magic heros 6, is hard to remember stuff like that from Da2.

So from where this Resolutionists came from? Circle of Magi, any one of them, maybe they came from starheavens after the fire, maybe Anders helped them scape from kirkwall circle and then become demon lovers-blood-mages..

Modifié par Huntress, 16 décembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I have not read Asunder.

Does anyone who has know of any serious problems with this, just on the surface?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 décembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[sunnydxmen]

why not I'm sure they want all Templars dead. heck they would kill the mages too like good work but you have only one more use now mages ask what to be sacrificed for blood magic ritual ( Evil LAUGH)

[Celene II]

It makes sense logically but I dont want too much logic in my fantasy game. We already have the civil war as supposedly the 2nd back drop plot. Do we really want more politics for the entire plot of the game?

Cant the main plot of templar v mage be something fantastical? Ancient Dragons, Old Gods, God Babies, something not so mundane as politics

[ev76]

I can see tevinter helping the mages, for the simple fact that they can gain influence on them and gain an ally in lands they once controlled.

[Xilizhra]

Resulting from this, as the Inquisitor, you start with a nominal association with the Orlesian Chantry. But as you uncover this Tevinter scheme, you will have the option to switch sides and become a double agent, which leads to epic showdowns in the breathtaking Val Royeaux Grand Cathedral, against elite Chantry operatives including the infamous Sister Nightingale. After your victory, you return triumphantly to Minrathous, taking your rightful place in the Council of Magisters. Like this:

This would be quite interesting were it not for the fact that it'd only apply to mages, and nonmages could... well, maybe they could get a decent army position.

[Androme]

 Not possible, if that was the case then the game would either end in a Tevinter or Orlais victory, unless our choices, once again, didn't matter, which would make a poor game. Now IF our choices did matter and either Tevinter or Orlais won, then it would be impossible to continue with the DA franchise, one nation winning over another in a massive Mage-Templar War would have such an impact it would be impossible to design a sequel without almost making two games in one.

I personally think the ''big ending choice'' or whatever we wanna call it, will be more along the lines of HOW the conflict is stopped, now that can easily be continued upon in the next game. I'm thinking maybe something along the lines of a massive offensive, with many major characters losing their lives (or the protagonist), or perhaps driving both sides mad and making them completely annahilate each other, and when one side is victorious, wipe out the remaining forces, and create the Circle and the Templars anew, or perhaps with the help of Morrigan, kill Flemeth, who is the puppet master that has been driving the world into chaos through careful planning, much more easily explained in a sequel imo.

[Sir JK]

It would not surprise me one bit if the Tevinters were providing a great deal of funding and training for the Resolutionists. They have everything to gain and in all likelihood nothing to lose by doing so. However, they will not be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts nor out of a belief of mage superiority. The Magisters won't care one bit whether the southern mages succeed... that's not the point. It's to keep Orlais and the Chantry out of Tevinter's geopoliticial interests, reassert influence over the Anderfels, Nevarra, the Free Marches and Antiva. Possibly, if things go real well, kickstart the slave trade as well. Maybe even make the south seem so unstable that the Qunari feel they have to intervene and thus take pressure away from Tevinter's armed forces.

It's all a gamble to strengthen Tevinter, not mages worldwide. The only thing the Magisters would want less than a strong stable Chantry is equals controlling the south.

[iOnlySignIn]

Androme wrote...

our choices, once again, didn't matter, which would make a poor game.

So you want meaningful choice.

Androme wrote...
I personally think the ''big ending choice'' or whatever we wanna call it, will be more along the lines of HOW the conflict is stopped

So you don't want meaningful choice.

Androme wrote...

Now IF our choices did matter and either Tevinter or Orlais won, then it would be impossible to continue with the DA franchise, one nation winning over another in a massive Mage-Templar War would have such an impact it would be impossible to design a sequel without almost making two games in one.

Impossible for you, perhaps. Also how do you know that the DA franchise would continue after DA3?

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 16 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Sir JK wrote...

It would not surprise me one bit if the Tevinters were providing a great deal of funding and training for the Resolutionists. They have everything to gain and in all likelihood nothing to lose by doing so. However, they will not be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts nor out of a belief of mage superiority. The Magisters won't care one bit whether the southern mages succeed... that's not the point. It's to keep Orlais and the Chantry out of Tevinter's geopoliticial interests, reassert influence over the Anderfels, Nevarra, the Free Marches and Antiva. Possibly, if things go real well, kickstart the slave trade as well. Maybe even make the south seem so unstable that the Qunari feel they have to intervene and thus take pressure away from Tevinter's armed forces.

It's all a gamble to strengthen Tevinter, not mages worldwide. The only thing the Magisters would want less than a strong stable Chantry is equals controlling the south.

Couldn't have said it any better.

That is why I listed the disintegration of the Orlesian Chantry and the weakening of Orlais as the first two of the three primary points.

The third one, granting southern Mages their freedom, is what the Tevinters would use to rally the southern Mages to their cause. It would not be their true purpose.

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Resulting from this, as the Inquisitor, you start with a nominal association with the Orlesian Chantry. But as you uncover this Tevinter scheme, you will have the option to switch sides and become a double agent, which leads to epic showdowns in the breathtaking Val Royeaux Grand Cathedral, against elite Chantry operatives including the infamous Sister Nightingale. After your victory, you return triumphantly to Minrathous, taking your rightful place in the Council of Magisters. Like this:

This would be quite interesting were it not for the fact that it'd only apply to mages, and nonmages could... well, maybe they could get a decent army position.

But you didn't hear my idea about how in DA:I, a method will be discovered to transform non-Mages into Mages.

In Asunder a way was discovered to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Granting Magic to non-Mages is the logical next step - and not a very big step at that.

[Augustei]

The Magister's wouldn't want the Inquisitor to become one of them however since that would mean political competition for them. So the Inquisitor would have to deal with them as well... In Doing so becoming the Archon =D... Maybe a bit to much to hope for heh

[The Elder King]

iOnlySignIn wrote...


But you didn't hear my idea about how in DA:I, a method will be discovered to transform non-Mages into Mages.

In Asunder a way was discovered to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Granting Magic to non-Mages is the logical next step - and not a very big step at that.

I'm doubtful. Reversing the Tranquility is different (a lot) of what you're suggesting. The Tranquils already have magic inside them. It's simply sealed. I'm surprised that it took so long to discover this.
My major concern is that there should be a proper method to prevent demon possession. Otherwise, increasing the numbers of mages could end in a catasthrope.
About you thesis about the Inquisitore's role and choice, Bioware said that they'll not going to foce us to follow the Chantry, and starting in the Chantry is forcing (at least for some hours) the player.
Plus, you're assuming that the Inquisition will be closely related to the Chantry. We don't know that. The Inquisition started as a indipendant organization. The moment they joined the Chantry, they became the Templars and the Seekers. I could understand if people are worried or think that the Inquisition will be hunting mages, but there's no reason to think that the Inquisition will be under the Chantry.
And I hope that the choice of sides isn't about the Chantry and Tevinter (at least not in the major plot). It'd be a terrible choice. It forces me on choosing a side I don't want to (the Chantry, since I'd prefer to make my PC die before joining the Imperium or the Qun).
About the Tevinter's involment in the rebellion, it's unlikely that is a direct "sponsoring". Andrastian mages might not like the Imperium. Going against the Chantry and the templars doesn't mean that mages necessarily like Tevinter.

[The Elder King]

Oh, and Tevinter has major problem than involving themselves on the rebellion. They have to (as it goes for centuries) deal with the qunari, which are the major reason the Imperium didn't invade the rest of Thedas.

[Drakar123]

It's possible.I for one am hoping that we get the chance to bring the Imperium into another golden age if not in DA3 then in a future DA game.They are the greatest nation on thedas and if the qunari never came along they would have conquered all other countries already.Would be nice if we could do away with the imperial chantry also and make old god worship the official religion of tevinter again.

[The Elder King]

Drakar123 wrote...

It's possible.I for one am hoping that we get the chance to bring the Imperium into another golden age if not in DA3 then in a future DA game.They are the greatest nation on thedas and if the qunari never came along they would have conquered all other countries already.Would be nice if we could do away with the imperial chantry also and make old god worship the official religion of tevinter again.

They're strong (stronger than any single nation) but not that strong. If the Imperium face the rest of Thedas, it's not sure they'll win. Orlais, Nevarra, Antiva, the Free Marches, Ferelden and Rivain together might be too much. The same goes for the qunari if they invade the rest of Thedas.
Of course, the mage-templar war and the civil war/s might weaken a lot those nations, favouring the invader.
Yeah, they should return to worship the one who lead them to their downfall. Truly a great logic. Regardless, the religion it's not that important. I don't think that the Imperial Chantry restricts the magisters that much, considering that the Black Divin could be (or is always, don't remember) a mage and the templars (as it was said by Lambert, who served in the Imperium as a templar) don't have much power. Maybe the only thing that changed is that they're not as moronic as they were in the past, using a third of the lyrium reserves of the Imperium and thousands of slaves for a moronic ritual, for a moronic goal.
I doubt that Bioware will ever make a game that will make the Imperium conquer the rest of Thedas. A game set in the Imperium that might make it stronger is possible. Making a game in whcih the PC help the Imperium conquer Thedas is almost impossible, in my opinion. The Imperium is often regarded as "bad", or evil. They're not interested in giving the PC the choice of be evil, I doubt they're going to make him join a kingdom which is regarded as "evil".

[Wulfram]

Don't know if Tevinter is all that interested in anything except the Qunari, foreign policy wise

[Drakar123]

The imperium is evil ?Just look at every other country on thedas and say that again.They are all horrible.Tevinter may not be the best country policy wise but it is better then other contries on thedas.Just because the chantry keeps telling you it's hell on earth isn't reason enough to believe them.Every imperial citizen who we met and wasn't a slave seemed pretty happy with Tevinter.

The country is not discriminatory.Elves don't live in ghettoes and mages are free.Anyone can become a magister regardless of who their parents are if they are a mage.It's not like orlais where nobles can do absolutely anything to commoners if they feel like it all because the maker gave them divine right.Magisters,all of them had to earn their power.Tevinter appreciates ability above all else which is one of the main reasons I like it so much.It doesnt matter who you are,who your parents are,all that matters is if you can get the job done.If you are capable you can become a magster.No other country on thedas is like that.

And while yes tevinter may not have enough soldiers to take over every other country on thedas they don't really need that many soldiers either.They have the largest number of blood mages and the most skilled blood mages of any country on thedas.They could have just mind controlled the other countries into civil wars until they were weakened enough to conquer.War isn't just about who has the largest army.Tevinter has the massive advantage which is blood magic and no other country can defend against it.