294 réponses à ce sujet

[Cimeas]

Yeah I can absolutely see this happening. Even if Tevinter didn't *start* the rebellion, you can be sure as hell they'd want it to succeed, even if it's just so that the south of Thedas is weak, which would let them take it over more easily and then ready their army for the war with the Qunari.

[KainD]

As I usually play mages, I would like an option to support Tevinter, if it is involved.

[The Elder King]

Drakar123 wrote...

The imperium is evil ?Just look at every other country on thedas and say that again.They are all horrible.Tevinter may not be the best country policy wise but it is better then other contries on thedas.Just because the chantry keeps telling you it's hell on earth isn't reason enough to believe them.Every imperial citizen who we met and wasn't a slave seemed pretty happy with Tevinter.

The country is not discriminatory.Elves don't live in ghettoes and mages are free.Anyone can become a magister regardless of who their parents are if they are a mage.It's not like orlais where nobles can do absolutely anything to commoners if they feel like it all because the maker gave them divine right.Magisters,all of them had to earn their power.Tevinter appreciates ability above all else which is one of the main reasons I like it so much.It doesnt matter who you are,who your parents are,all that matters is if you can get the job done.If you are capable you can become a magster.No other country on thedas is like that.

.

I don't care what the Chantry said. First of all, a magocracy isn't any better than an aristocracy, in both system a restricted number of people could rule (since if you're forgetting mages aren't majority). Second, you become magister if you're stronger than the other mages. You might have no knowledge in how to rule a country, if you're strong enough, you can become magister. The only thing that matters is the magical power.
Plus, both magisters and nobles have pretty much complete power over the common people. There's not difference between them.
Elves might not live in ghettos, but slavery is common, and so a lot of them (and  not only them, humans too) could be slaves. Elves mages could raise the status, the others, it depends. Slaves could raise their status in the way Fenris did, but it's still slavery. There are surely elves that might be free and be soldiers, but we don't know how it works (and it's not a general things, since in DAO Tevinter slavers, including a elf, bought elves from Loghain, to be used as slaves). Anyway, elves might not live in ghettos, but you're forgetting that the life in Tevinter for common people is an hell, based on the codex. The opinion of magisters and slavers (which are probably in a higher rank than common people) don't matter much. I'd like to know the opinion of slaves and common people. Why do you think that Fenris was willing to have lyrium marks on his body and raise his family's status?.
About the comparison  of Tevinter with other countries, in no country the common people are treated good. But in Tevinter the lives of common people is hell. Slavery is legal, and considering that the economy is based massively on slavery, there are a lot of them. Mages are treated probably better, though it should be considered that Circles are present and a lot of mages live there. We don't know how mages (other than magisters and their apprentices) are treated. I fail to see how the Tevinter system is better for common people, with the con that slavery is legal. Common people couldn't raise to government, and they could raise in rank as common people in other countries (with the exception that, exceptional as it could be, common people could raise to nobility in Andrastian countries, as Loghain shown).
I should note that I don't thing any system in Thedas (Tevinter, Andrastian nations, qunari) is good. I just think that the Tevinter and the qunari are worse. If the choice in DAI are, join the Imperium or the Chantry system, without changing anything on theit system. I'll choose the latter, because I think the former is worse (and I don't like to make a choice considering who is worse, but as it was with DA2, I could make a choice only if I consider which is the worse, since both are bad). The situation is different if I'ffd be free to hugely reform one of those system.
About the power of blood mages, they don't have THAT much power. Otherwise I fail to see how they couldn't have crushed  or mind-controlled.the qunari. And the qunari are in advantage on the Imperium.

[The Elder King]

KainD wrote...

As I usually play mages, I would like an option to support Tevinter, if it is involved.

I'm going to play as a mage PC in my first playthrough, and I'll send Tevinter to hell if I have the choice. Playing a mage=/=supporting Tevinter.

[Xilizhra]

I don't care what the Chantry said. First of all, a magocracy isn't any better than an aristocracy, in both system a restricted number of people could rule (since if you're forgetting mages aren't majority). Second, you become magister if you're stronger than the other mages. You might have no knowledge in how to rule a country, if you're strong enough, you can become magister. The only thing that matters is the magical power.

Which really is no different from any other nation in Thedas where it's based on blood. And magical power alone isn't enough; you have to be politically savvy, at the very least, to both survive and rise up.

As for Tevinter itself... it's bad, but I really do need to help finish off Chantry control without stumbling at the finish line.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't care what the Chantry said. First of all, a magocracy isn't any better than an aristocracy, in both system a restricted number of people could rule (since if you're forgetting mages aren't majority). Second, you become magister if you're stronger than the other mages. You might have no knowledge in how to rule a country, if you're strong enough, you can become magister. The only thing that matters is the magical power.

Which really is no different from any other nation in Thedas where it's based on blood. And magical power alone isn't enough; you have to be politically savvy, at the very least, to both survive and rise up.

As for Tevinter itself... it's bad, but I really do need to help finish off Chantry control without stumbling at the finish line.

My point was that both system are bad. Political savy is necessary for maintaning power in Andrastian nation too. Both political system isn't something I would support.
About Tevinter and the Chantry, you consider the Chantry the greater enemy, so you'd prefer to side with the Tevinter. I think Tevinter is worse than the Chantry, so I'm not going to support it.
Plus, you're assuming that the Chantry will be the enemy of the mages and/or support the templars. Which we don't know. We don't know nothing about the Chantry's goals after Asunder.
Regardless, in one of my post I point out that I don't want to choose between the Chantry and Tevinter. It's a choice I don't want to make because it'll force me a side I don't necessarily want to pick (since the chances of me picking Tevinter are the same of picking templars if their goal is annihilation of mages: zero).

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Resulting from this, as the Inquisitor, you start with a nominal association with the Orlesian Chantry. But as you uncover this Tevinter scheme, you will have the option to switch sides and become a double agent,

Want, want, want, want, want.  I love to play power hungry mages.  Part of my story for most of the mages I play is that after whatever game finishes, they eventually become as powerful as the evil they destroyed, and end up having to be destroyed themselves.  To be able to play a mage devoted to power above all else...  that would rock.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Celene II wrote...

It makes sense logically but I dont want too much logic in my fantasy game. We already have the civil war as supposedly the 2nd back drop plot. Do we really want more politics for the entire plot of the game?

Cant the main plot of templar v mage be something fantastical? Ancient Dragons, Old Gods, God Babies, something not so mundane as politics

I guess it all really depends on whether you find politics mundane or not. Clearly Celene II, you do. Personally I find politics a fascinating thing to throw into the mix with ancient dragons, old gods, and what have you. Then again, I'm a fan of talky fantasy books like George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series which do feature their share of characters involved in political wheeling and dealing, intrigue, and manipulation.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying politics should dominate the series or that every Dragon Age game hereafter needs to have politics at the heart of its main plot, but neither do I object to it. Even Dragon Age: Origins and its expansion Awakening had its share of political aspects.

[Androme]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Androme wrote...

our choices, once again, didn't matter, which would make a poor game.

So you want meaningful choice.

Androme wrote...
I personally think the ''big ending choice'' or whatever we wanna call it, will be more along the lines of HOW the conflict is stopped

So you don't want meaningful choice.

Androme wrote...

Now IF our choices did matter and either Tevinter or Orlais won, then it would be impossible to continue with the DA franchise, one nation winning over another in a massive Mage-Templar War would have such an impact it would be impossible to design a sequel without almost making two games in one.

Impossible for you, perhaps. Also how do you know that the DA franchise would continue after DA3?

Sorry not my fault if you can't read properly

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Good. I wouldn't mind helping them take over all of Thedas again.

[MisterJB]

Works for me. I've hoped to fight a war against them for some time.
The hour has come to finish what Andraste started and free Northern Thedas.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 décembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If both are options, I'd do at least one playthrough corresponding to each.

[Huntress]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Doesn't Leliana basically say the Devine suspects the Tevinter Magisters to be behind the mage rebellion?

No.
Leliana warn about The Resolutionists who have Splitted from the main Libertarian fraternity, the Resolutionists are open apostates who support freedom for mages at all costs. They engaged in acts of terror and sabotage against the Chantry throughout Thedas, and many are connected to Kirkwall's mage underground.

   
Lore
Location:
    
Upon speaking to Leliana during Faith in Act 3
DLC:
    
The Exiled Prince.

Codex text:

Each Circle of Magi is home to various fraternities of enchanters that serve as social outlets for mages and ways for those of like mind to promote their philosophies on magic. The most marginal of these were always the Libertarians, who believed mages must take a more active role in the politics of Thedas. While publicly only advocating greater power for the Circles, many Libertarians secretly wished to split completely from the Chantry, as mages did in Tevinter. The Chantry allowed the group to continue in order to note potential troublemakers.

The Resolutionists changed all that. Splitting from the main Libertarian fraternity, the Resolutionists are open apostates who support freedom for mages at all costs. They engaged in acts of terror and sabotage against the Chantry throughout Thedas, and many are connected to Kirkwall's mage underground. They have declared that unless mages are freed to rule themselves, they will show every person in Thedas how little protection the Circle of Magi actually offers.

Modifié par Huntress, 16 décembre 2012 - 05:08 .

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

Works for me. I've hoped to fight a war against them for some time.
The hour has come to finish what Andraste started and free Northern Thedas.

It's not like there'll be a war against Tevinter. The Southern Thedas isn't in the posistion of wage war with the mage-templar war on its territory and already a civil war triggered (in the strongest country).
Regardless, it'd be stupid for the Southern Thedas to go on war with the Imperium. It'll only weaken both sides, giving the advantage to the qunari. The situation in Thedas is in a stalemate.

[MisterJB]

That all depends on your definition of war. while I don't see all Andrastean Nations putting aside their differences and turning their attention North, I also doubt any side the player can pick in this war; Templar or Mage; will lead to any significant changes that vary wildly. This is isn't "New Vegas", Bioware wants to make more games and they are unwilling to extablish a canon.
So, what I could see is reconciling Templars and Mages to fight off an invasion from Tevinter regardless of Qunari presence.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 décembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

That all depends on your definition of war. while I don't see all Andrastean Nations putting aside their differences and turning their attention North, I also doubt any side the player can pick in this war; Templar or Mage; will lead to any significant changes that vary wildly. This is isn't "New Vegas", Bioware wants to make more games and they are unwilling to extablish a canon.
So, what I could see is reconciling Templars and Mages to fight off an invasion from Tevinter regardless of Qunari presence.

I could see that happening, but again, it'd lead to Tevinter being wide open for the qunari (they're not going to wait that the Tevinter's invasion finishs before attacking them) and the Southern Thedas to face an invasion which would weaken them.
Though in the end I don't think that fighting the Tevinter will be main plot, regardless the centrality of the mage-templar war in the game (I think that it's going to be a main quest in the game, but not the main plot).

[BlueMagitek]

MisterJB wrote...

Works for me. I've hoped to fight a war against them for some time.
The hour has come to finish what Andraste started and free Northern Thedas.

I disagree, we must utilize the power of Tevinter against the Qunari assembled to the North. 

...actually, that begs the question, if some rookie Dreamer can kill people hundreds of miles away, why aren't the Tevinter using this against the Qunari?  Even in a well oiled machine (if the Arishock went crazy, for instance, they could just replace him), if you break enough, it will, if nothing else, delay it.

[lil yonce]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Consider the main effects & goals of the Mage Rebellion:

- The disintegration of the Orlesian Chantry: it looses control over Circles AND Templars

- The weakening of Orlais (the most powerful civilization in Thedas): Orlesian Civil War

- The liberation of Mages: Mages rule themselves instead of being ruled by others

It wouldn't be surprising for me to discover in DA:I that the Mage Rebellion is actually directly and extensively sponsored by Tevinter.

I didn't receive the impression the Orlesian civil war a result of the Mage rebellion. The nobility moved against Celene long before the Enchanters convened at the White Spire. The civil war and rebellion may be a Tevinter gain, but I don't think they orchestrated a plot against Orlais. I think they'd work out an elaborate scheme like this for their current enemy, the Qunari.

[KainD]

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

As I usually play mages, I would like an option to support Tevinter, if it is involved.

I'm going to play as a mage PC in my first playthrough, and I'll send Tevinter to hell if I have the choice. Playing a mage=/=supporting Tevinter.

Your choice. I just want the best for my mage PC so..

[The Hierophant]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

As I usually play mages, I would like an option to support Tevinter, if it is involved.

I'm going to play as a mage PC in my first playthrough, and I'll send Tevinter to hell if I have the choice. Playing a mage=/=supporting Tevinter.

Your choice. I just want the best for my mage PC so..

Seeing as how almost everyone from there is f'd in head i doubt it.

[The Hierophant]

Cimeas wrote...

Yeah I can absolutely see this happening. Even if Tevinter didn't *start* the rebellion, you can be sure as hell they'd want it to succeed, even if it's just so that the south of Thedas is weak, which would let them take it over more easily and then ready their army for the war with the Qunari.

The problem i see with this is that the Tevinter are only combating a portion of the Qunari's forces(barely), and that if southern Thedas is weakened then the whole of the continent could be conquered in one zerg rush. IIRC it took an Exalted march just to reclaim land and stalemate with the Qun.

[The Elder King]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

KainD wrote...

As I usually play mages, I would like an option to support Tevinter, if it is involved.

I'm going to play as a mage PC in my first playthrough, and I'll send Tevinter to hell if I have the choice. Playing a mage=/=supporting Tevinter.

Your choice. I just want the best for my mage PC so..

Supporting Tevinter isnt' necessarily the best for the mages. Most of the mages live in the Circles too (and we dont know how they're treated). The magister rule the society, but it's a continuos strugge where mages/magisters are murdered by other mages/magisters for obtaining more power. If you think that this is the best for mages, good luck with that.
I should've point out though that I was talking about my canon playthrough. I like to experience every choices in my games, so even if there are choices my canon PC wouldn't make, I could roleplay a different PC. In this case, a mage-supremacist PC.