294 réponses à ce sujet

[Drakar123]

How does ''templars and dwarves'' dissapprove what I said ?Neither tempalrs nor dwarves can do anything if someone attacked them from within the fade and killed their spirit.And templar abilities are magic.

[iOnlySignIn]

Drakar123 wrote...

How does ''templars and dwarves'' dissapprove what I said? Neither tempalrs nor dwarves can do anything if someone attacked them from within the fade and killed their spirit.And templar abilities are magic.

(1) Kossith appear to have higher natural resistance to Magic than even Dwarves. See Sten's Fade Nightmare in DA:O, compared to Oghren's. It is possible that Kossith (like Dwarves) don't even dream in normal circumstances.

(2) Templar abilities are not magic because they can be acquired and used by non-Mages. It is most likely the Qunari have similar, if not much better anti-Magic solutions (based on Lyrium or else) due to their superior technology. It's easy to imagine how they work from Avaarad's short appearance in DA2.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 17 décembre 2012 - 02:11 .

[sunnydxmen]

what if the qunari came in with some guns no for real how advance our they in lyrium is magic.

[Dragoonlordz]

I'll be honest I came in thinking would be more sponsered by coca cola type accusations.

[Drakar123]

Kossith have no natural ressistance to magic.Dwarves do because of their exposure to lyrium.The reason sten was able to resist was because he was strong willed.Your magical aptitude isn't as important as your willpower while in the fade.Other people who ended up in the fade were also able to resist because off heir strong wills.

And Templars abilities are magic...Are you seriously going to say they aren't ?Magic is still magic even when used by non mages.The power lyrium has comes from the fade and is as such magic.Theoretically non mages could use blood magic ad you wouldn't be able to say that isn't magic just because a non mage was doing it.A mage's abilities come from their above average connecton to the fade.Darkspawn who have no connection to the fade are able to use blood and taint magic since those two things have inherent power of their own and darkspawn are not technically mages if you define that as being able to draw power from the fade.

As for the qunari they are nowhere near as magically advanced as any nation on thedas.They have gunpowder and better ships but that's it.They have far less mages then other countries and their mages aren't exactly permitted to engage in research so their magical knowledge is poor at best.

[MisterJB]

Drakar123 wrote...

You can't defend against magic without using magic.The qunari are so scared of magic there is no way a dreamer could survive under the qun so they shouldn't even know what one is much less how to defend against one.Qamek is just drugs or a neurotoxin of sorts.

The qunari have a rational fear of magic much like we have a rational fear of radiation. That doesn't mean we don't use it as a valuable resource. Likewise, the qunari use their mages, they just leash them.
And, as seen in the Destiny Trailer, the Arishok displays Templar-like abilities to nullify Hawke's flame(altough a trailer is hardly the best source of lore, I admit). Such abilities might be used to protect a person of importance from somniaris while sleeping. We do know the templars use runes to deny mages the use of their powers. A nation constantly at war with a society of mages would have to be inept not to create or import such runes.

Whether or not a dreamer survives under the qun is irrelevant. If Tevinter used somniari against them, it would be in their interest to discover as much as they could about these mages and how to protect oneself from their abilities which can be done through sources of information like books or captured magisters. If a dalish clan can find information regarding dreamers, I find it hard to believe the qunari would fail to.

Modifié par MisterJB, 17 décembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[Drakar123]

Their fear is not rational.It's paranoia.Magic is nowhere near as dengerous as people try to make it out to be.The main problem with it is that mages would inevitably end up being the ruling class which is in my opinion not a bad thing.And qunari should not have any way of defending against dreamers.A dreamers kills you by killing your spirit in the fade.Unless you were a mage and could defend yourself in the fade it's impossible to defend against.

[MisterJB]

Drakar123 wrote...

Their fear is not rational.It's paranoia.Magic is nowhere near as dengerous as people try to make it out to be.

You're right. It's even more dangerous.

The main problem with it is that mages would inevitably end up being the ruling class which is in my opinion not a bad thing.

I disagree. It would be a very bad thing. For anyone who is not a magister, anyway.

And qunari should not have any way of defending against dreamers.A dreamers kills you by killing your spirit in the fade.Unless you were a mage and could defend yourself in the fade it's impossible to defend against.

Have some Saarebas watch over your spirit while you sleep. Done.

I'm sure the writers could come up with other ways.

[BlueMagitek]

Drakar123 wrote...

How does ''templars and dwarves''
dissapprove what I said ?Neither tempalrs nor dwarves can do anything if
someone attacked them from within the fade and killed their spirit.And
templar abilities are magic.

Uh, Dwarves don't go to the
Fade when they dream.  That was stated as fact back in DA:O.  That Shale
and Oghren have a presence in the Fade is most likely the result of the
demon.

Drakar123 wrote...

Their fear is not rational.It's paranoia.Magic is nowhere near as dengerous as people try to make it out to be.The main problem with it is that mages would inevitably end up being the ruling class which is in my opinion not a bad thing.And qunari should not have any way of defending against dreamers.A dreamers kills you by killing your spirit in the fade.Unless you were a mage and could defend yourself in the fade it's impossible to defend against.

All of your posts prior in this topic are about how mages are capable of, and should, slaughter people in their sleep from hundreds of miles away.  Mages are more dangerous than they're made out of.  And mages being a ruling class is not a good thing, as we've already seen it in action via Tevinter, so I can only stand to assume that you are pro slavery and human/elven sacrifice.

[Drakar123]

It's not dangerous unless you are the innocent non mage victim.Abominations aren't really a problem in tevinter because the mages there control and bind demons to their will instead of making deals with them and becoming possessed.Did you see how many demons Danarius summoned to his mantion ?If circles taught mages how to summon and control demons then the abomination problem would be solved but then tempalrs would have no chance in hell of controlling mages.

And who really cares about non mages ?They are like cattle.We kill them for food while magisters kill non mages for blood maigc.Sure they feel pain but they are lesser beings and as such are our slaves.They have no rights because they are an inferior species and such.Nothing wrong with that.If a superior species ever came along we humans would become their cattle.

And having saarebas watch you wouldn't work.For a non dreamer to go into the fade they need lyrium.The qunari can't guard every important individual with several saarebas to protect them from dreamers.First of all they don't have that many saarebas and second they have nowhere near enough lyrium.No guarantee the saarebas would actually succeed either.

Edit:Dwarves may not go to the fade when they dream but this is because of their incredibly low connection to the fade.A small connection is still present otherwise they would be tranquil and oghren and shale would have had no spirts to go into the fade.Due to this a dreamer could still kill them.

Modifié par Drakar123, 17 décembre 2012 - 02:46 .

[BlueMagitek]

Drakar123 wrote...

It's not dangerous unless you are the innocent non mage victim.Abominations aren't really a problem in tevinter because the mages there control and bind demons to their will instead of making deals with them and becoming possessed.Did you see how many demons Danarius summoned to his mantion ?If circles taught mages how to summon and control demons then the abomination problem would be solved but then tempalrs would have no chance in hell of controlling mages.

And who really cares about non mages ?They are like cattle.We kill them for food while magisters kill non mages for blood maigc.Sure they feel pain but they are lesser beings and as such are our slaves.They have no rights because they are an inferior species and such.Nothing wrong with that.If a superior species ever came along we humans would become their cattle.

And having saarebas watch you wouldn't work.For a non dreamer to go into the fade they need lyrium.The qunari can't guard every important individual with several saarebas to protect them from dreamers.First of all they don't have that many saarebas and second they have nowhere near enough lyrium.No guarantee the saarebas would actually succeed either.

Edit:Dwarves may not go to the fade when they dream but this is because of their incredibly low connection to the fade.A small connection is still present otherwise they would be tranquil and oghren and shale would have had no spirts to go into the fade.Due to this a dreamer could still kill them.

Summoning is taught in the Circle.  There are two quests in DA:O related to it.  Binding demons also doesn't relate to abominations, and the 'bound' demons are going to try and screw you over at every turn (Avernus, DA:O). 

...I'm trying, just what is wrong with you?  The analogy doesn't even hold up because mages can be born of a non mage family.   You desire a world where, due to circumstances at birth (which Dwarves cannot have a part at all and Elves are losing their connection to magic with lower mage birth rate), you are either put in an upper class or slave class.  That is monsterous. 

Qunari Saarebas are blood mages, if the item gained in DA2 is any indication.  Blood Magic can put you in the fade just as easily as Lyrium.   You're also making up numbers for the amount of Saarebas, which they have enough that Gregoire is aware of them and how they are treated back in DA:O. 

There is no evidence of that at all. 

[Savber100]

You mean a Bioware story where it doesn't involve a big evil demon?

Hohoho.

That said, that would be cool .

[MisterJB]

Mage supremacist rethoric funded on the belief that physical capabilties make someone superior to the other. It's a belief I don't share.
A bear is stronger than me but that doesn't make it a superior species. Rather, we see our superior reasoning and emotional capability as signs humans are superior.
Well, mundanes have the same mental and emotional capabilities of mages. Their ability to conjure fireballs doesn't make them inherently superior; who is the more accomplished human being? Loghain or Emmile DeLaucett? It only makes them more dangerous.

But just like humanity would fight a more advanced alien species, so too will mundanes fight mages.

[MisterJB]

Savber100 wrote...

You mean a Bioware story where it doesn't involve a big evil demon?

Hohoho.

That said, that would be cool .

There wasn't a big evil demon in DA2 or Jade Empire or Kotor.
Only political ambitions and social problems.

[Drakar123]

Summoning demons is most definitely not taught in the circle.Summoning wisps and having benevolent spirits help you yes but not demons.Demons you manage to bind successfuly can't really screw you over since they have nothing to offer you you can't make them give you by force.

Avernuss for all his mastery over the taint wasnt very good when it came to demonology.Danarius controlled a similair number of demons to what we ecountered in Warden's Keep and had no issue with it.In fact it seemed like a regular occurence.The knowledge a magister possesses is far above that of an average mage.

The odds of a non mage being born to a family of mages is pretty low and even then they wouldn't be slaves.They would be looked down upon by mages but since they have magic in their blood they would still be respected and although they could not become magistes they would still be pretty wealthy.Not everyone in Tevinter is a slave.Most people aren't.I have nothing against them being discarded because they were not born as mages however.As monsterous as you may think it is mages are superior to regular people in every way and as such have every right to rule

As for the saarebas it has been stated qunari have far less mages then other nations and they don't have very many mages.While blood mages can enter the fade without lyrium they would need a living sacrifice for every mage attempting to do so.That's even more out of the question.

Edit:Mages are superior since magic gives them abilities mundanes can never hope to match.They can do everything mundanes can but better and faster and the true capabilities of magic have not yet bene discovered.Soul manipulation,teleportation,reviving the dead,conjuring objects.How can anyone say people who could potentially be capable of such things are not superior to those who aren't ?Anyway I hav to go to sleep...

Modifié par Drakar123, 17 décembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[MisterJB]

Drakar123 wrote...
Edit:Mages are superior since magic gives them abilities mundanes can never hope to match.They can do everything mundanes can but better and faster and the true capabilities of magic have not yet bene discovered.Soul manipulation,teleportation,reviving the dead,conjuring objects.How can anyone say people who could potentially be capable of such things are not superior to those who aren't ?Anyway I hav to go to sleep...

No, it gives them an advantage in certain areas such combat or healing. Magic is impressive and dangerous, yes, but intelligent and charismatic mundanes can do things mages couldn't. Even if Andraste was a mage, she untied her followers trough her strenght of will, not blood magic, and threw down Souther Tevinter. Likewise, Maferath did what the Magisters couldn't. He defeated Andraste.

You're still using the false notion that what one can do, makes one superior to someone who can't. I can't run like a leopard. Is the leopard superior to me?
Or does "my" ability to split the atom make me superior to the leopard? Well, nuclear energy was "invented" by mundanes. I doubt the mages of Thedas could do it.

[BlueMagitek]

Spirits are just as powerful, if not more so, than Demons.

You're still advocating a horrible society where you sacrifice any potential of the underclass to feed even the least worthy of the upper class. And no, they aren't superior in every way. If they were, Tevinter would be a mixture of technology and magic, instead, technology is most advanced by Dwarves and Qunari. Mundanes also don't burst into abominations.

Where was this stated? And they can sacrifice their mindless slaves/Tevinter captives. That's what they're there for.

[Xilizhra]

You're still advocating a horrible society where you sacrifice any potential of the underclass to feed even the least worthy of the upper class. And no, they aren't superior in every way. If they were, Tevinter would be a mixture of technology and magic, instead, technology is most advanced by Dwarves and Qunari. Mundanes also don't burst into abominations.

I think Tevinter's technology is actually ahead of the curve of the rest of Thedas, from what we've seen in the comics.

No, it gives them an advantage in certain areas such combat or healing. Magic is impressive and dangerous, yes, but intelligent and charismatic mundanes can do things mages couldn't. Even if Andraste was a mage, she untied her followers trough her strenght of will, not blood magic, and threw down Souther Tevinter. Likewise, Maferath did what the Magisters couldn't. He defeated Andraste.

Intelligent and charismatic mundanes will, however, be overmatched by intelligent and charismatic mages. And how do you know that Andraste didn't use blood magic to bolster her charm?

[blueumi]

not good the tevinter imperium are a little like the reapers they manipulate humans and mages that are weaker to do what they want so they stay strong and to hell with the people they use and abuse

at least with the templars they were just trying to protect humans since they have no magic to defend themselves from mages

the mages who just want to live a normal life are not the same as the tevinters I don't like the idea of having all mages be as evil as the tevinters

dragon age 2 did a good job in my opinion of showing how different the mages we are used to really are when compared

the tevinter imperium is the reason we have templars who lock up mages for fear of another country being controlled by mages

bioware has done a fantastic job of showing that there is no easy answer to this situation and that we as the player must make our own mind up on what our hero will do

[Isaantia]

It would be more in Tevinter's interest to have mages of other realms penned up and kept under wraps. It's in the interest of their own national security.

I highly doubt that they are behind the unrest, if anything, it is a group that has an interest in destroying Tevinter. This may also be why the Divine seems to be sympathetic to mages. Andraste was seeking the destruction of Tevinter after all.

[BlueMagitek]

-removed due to double post-

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:35 .

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Tevinter's technology is actually ahead of the curve of the rest of Thedas, from what we've seen in the comics.

Well, as we know from Mass Effect comics, we can't take anything in there seriously, because the games can do what they want.

And considering that gunpowder belongs to the Qunari, various tech advances belong to the dwarves (water clocks, smokeless coal), and we have yet to hear anything technologically marvelous come from Tevinter, I am not going to take your word for it.

[Celene II]

Not wanting 2 political enemies aside, my mage would never want the blood mage baby killing evil stereotypical bad mage to be the cause of my freedom.

i am not evil
i dont keep slaves
i want nothing to do with the tevinter imperium and their comic book villain sensibilities.

Its a far cry from im ripping you from you family and locking you in a tower forever or until you become evil and then turning you into a lobotomized veggie to we rule everyone and everyone that doesnt have magic is a 2nd class citizen.

There is a middle ground. So having the imperium be the cause of the war does not fit a lot of mage players idea.

How about the reason for the war is mages dont want to be slaves anymore?

[BlueMagitek]

Celene II wrote...

Not wanting 2 political enemies aside, my mage would never want the blood mage baby killing evil stereotypical bad mage to be the cause of my freedom.

i am not evil
i dont keep slaves
i want nothing to do with the tevinter imperium and their comic book villain sensibilities.

Its a far cry from im ripping you from you family and locking you in a tower forever or until you become evil and then turning you into a lobotomized veggie to we rule everyone and everyone that doesnt have magic is a 2nd class citizen.

There is a middle ground. So having the imperium be the cause of the war does not fit a lot of mage players idea.

How about the reason for the war is mages dont want to be slaves anymore?

Well : 

1) Mages aren't really slaves
2) "Freedom" coming from a dark source would fit the dark world of Dragon Age. ~_^