294 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Alright, I ask for evidence. Where in the game or codexes are these great feats of magic happening presently? You seem to be making up most of your statements. We fight Tevinter mages, and a Magister in one case, and they certainly aren't that impressive.

Yes. The old magic. Which is gone now. Hence Magic being weaker. And, as we know, technology marches on.

If Tevinter could have killed off the Qunari they would have done so by now; the Qunari are holding the Tevinter in check against the southern nations of Thedas. If the Qunari were eliminated, they could use their supposedly awesome magics against the south. As they have not done so, is it not reasonable to assume that it is either too cumbersome to use effectively or too unreliable to use effectively?

[Drakar123]

hhh89 wrote...

Drakar123 wrote...

By mageocracy I meant a society ruled by the most powerful mages.The ones in power would be the most intelligent and powerful mages.A democracy could also work I suppose.It works on paper in our world but not in practice because people are stupid and/or because they don't bother doing research.

If the society will be ruled by the most powerful mages, there's surely be conflict. It'd be a strugge for powr.

It was said by some dalish elves.I recall Marethari mentioning it.It was probably mentioned elsehwere as well.And just because there is no discrimination a society isn't perfect.Do you really think someone who is 10000 years old will spend all his time hating someone else because of a different skin color ?

There isn't. I checked it. The didn't talk about all elves possessing magic. Though I admit that both of us could right, since whatever the dalish knew now could not be the exact truth. So I think we'll have to wait. I'm sure they're going to bring Arlathan up in a game.
And Thedas never had much problem with skin color, as far as I recall. The discriminations would be others.
Besides, I'm not saying that the 1000 years old would spend time hating someone else. The younger ones could.
Conflict will be always be present. It's naive to think that being immortal would change that.

What magisters and some mages want doesn't matter.It will happen.The number of mages has recently started to rise quite a bit due to the thinning of the veil.As it is it doesn't look like the veil will last much longer.A few hundred years at best or it could even dissappear in the dragon age assuming something happens.Mundanes would stop being the majority eventually.

In Kirkwall. And there is no confimation that it's because of the Veil (though I'd say it's likely).
Oh, and I repeat, when the Veil would be destroyed we'll be invaded by demons. Good luck repelling them. I'd be more concerned to repair the Veil, if possible.

A democracy then since in a country where everyone is immortal and there is no rush only capable people will be elected.

I am certain marethari said all people possesed the gift once although until we have further proof I suppose the matter should be dropped.

Discrimnation is something that's learned.It's not going to appear on it's own.The younger ones would follow the example of the elders and as such discrimination would not be present

Sandal's ''prophecy'' probably speaks of the dissapperance of the veil and the silent grove comics say that before the veil dragons rule the world.IT's not like we really know what consequences it dissappearing could have either.All demons might suddenly die out when it happens since the fade would end up dissappearing.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're still forcing people to be mages. You know, unless you're going to solve the demon's problem, mage would still be at riskof possession . And you know, people might not like being always in constant threat.

What better way is there to end the conflict between mages and mundanes?

A compromise? An indipendand Circle system.
Almost everything it's better than a Synthesis 2.0. It's a little more believable in DA  than in ME, but it's still ridicolous.
Regardless, I don't care much about this. If this solution will be present in a DA game, it's going to be forced on the player, unless they're going to start making canon import for their next games.  When it'll happen, I'll deal with it.
Though as I said I don't think it'd happen.

[Xilizhra]

Alright, I ask for evidence. Where in the game or codexes are these great feats of magic happening presently? You seem to be making up most of your statements. We fight Tevinter mages, and a Magister in one case, and they certainly aren't that impressive.

Neither are abominations, hence abominations are no major threat and the templars are craven liars. Booya.

If Tevinter could have killed off the Qunari they would have done so by now; the Qunari are holding the Tevinter in check against the southern nations of Thedas. If the Qunari were eliminated, they could use their supposedly awesome magics against the south. As they have not done so, is it not reasonable to assume that it is either too cumbersome to use effectively or too unreliable to use effectively?

No, because we don't know enough about that conflict, and our only information comes from someone with an incredibly strong bias against one side.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...


Magic was weakening, but the tide is turning. More mages are being born. The dragons are back. A possible dwarf mage, or something, has appeared. Strong implications have been made for magic washing over the world again.

I hope it's not going to be with a huge demonic invasion.

Drakar123 wrote...



Sandal's ''prophecy'' probably
speaks of the dissapperance of the veil and the silent grove comics say
that before the veil dragons rule the world.IT's not like we really know
what consequences it dissappearing could have either.All demons might
suddenly die out when it happens since the fade would end up
dissappearing.

The disapperance of the veil doesn't mean that the Fade would disappear. It means that the shield between the mortal realm and the Fade will no longer be present. The Fade isn't linked to the Veil for its survival.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

What better way is there to end the conflict between mages and mundanes?

Magic was weakening, but the tide is turning. More mages are being born. The dragons are back. A possible dwarf mage, or something, has appeared. Strong implications have been made for magic washing over the world again.

Unacceptable solution (to you) presented by the Dragon Age universe : For the safety of both mages and mundanes, lock up the mages, let them study and practice their magics, and if they've proven themselves, let them go outside, many times without a Templar escort. 

Acceptable solution (to you) presented by you: Eliminate the larger faction, nevermind abominations.



Not to elves, they aren't.  And if the "strong implications" are from Sandal, why believe him?  He can't even make up his mind if it was enchantment or not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Drakar123 wrote...
They've been around for thousands of years.They will have magical abilities the likes of which you could not imagine.They had means of teleportation.They lived extremelly long lives and as such should have been better tactitians then any human nation possibly could.The eleves had suerior number,superior firepower and more experience.A lot more experience. [/quote]

Aha..so tell me again why aren't they the masters now?

[quote]
Templar abilities are usless against blood magic [/quoteg

Nope. They still work.

[Drakar123]

The magisters hold nowhere near the power they once did.Should they suddenly sacrifice that many of their innocent citizens they would have an enormous rebellion on their hands.They could put it down but would be unable to defend themselves against the other nations afterwards.Magic has not grown weaker and there is no evidence to support your theory.it has however been said that the number of mages has been rising and the veil is getting thinner.Magic is no weaker then it used to be.Just because a lot of knowledge has been lost doesn't mean that magic itself has grown weaker.Mages have since they are not as knowledgable as before but magic itself has grown stonger not weaker.The magisters would only do something like that out of desperation and currently hey are not seriously trying to win aganst the qunari sicne the qunari are trying to take seheron and not tevinter.

[Destroyer Deathsmane]

Drakar123 if your mages are so great then explain why Tevinter needed the aid of all of the other Thedas nations to bring the Qunari invasion to a standstill and then via a treaty force them back to Par vallon , a treaty that Teventer refused to sign .

Also explain why Tevinter has yet to defeat the Qunari since then given that Tevinter has alot more Mages then the Qunari do and Tevinter aruably has the largest army of any Thedas nation , excluding the Qunari .

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...


No, because we don't know enough about that conflict, and our only information comes from someone with an incredibly strong bias against one side.

On that, I mostly agree with you. I thik that the qunari are a bit stronger, but I don't thin they're far too stronger.
I still think that either the Imperium or the qunari would start the invasion of the rest of Thedas at the end of DA3.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Drakar123 wrote...

Possession is not a problem if mages are taught how to properly control demons.Magisters summon demons on an almost daily basis and they don't get possessed.

HAHAHAHAHAHaha....


no.

Destroying magic would make everyone tranquil so that isn't an option.

Mundanes would like to have a word with you about that.

[Xilizhra]

Unacceptable solution (to you) presented by the Dragon Age universe : For the safety of both mages and mundanes, lock up the mages, let them study and practice their magics, and if they've proven themselves, let them go outside, many times without a Templar escort.

Acceptable solution (to you) presented by you: Eliminate the larger faction, nevermind abominations.

I'll accept something similar to the first one if the Chantry is gone and the templars wiped out. For the time being.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...


Neither are abominations, hence abominations are no major threat and the templars are craven liars. Booya.

No, because we don't know enough about that conflict, and our only information comes from someone with an incredibly strong bias against one side.

You mean the mages that Tevinter sent out to do their dirty work are not abominations.  Shocking, truly.   Most mages in the Circle are not abominations (in part due to the Harrowing).  Abominations are still a threat.   In fact, that isn't even an argument.

Uh huh.   Considering you're perfectly willing to believe the Dalish, I'd say you've already made up your mind and would ignore any evidence that came from outside of Fenris.  We know it's been a stalemate for ~300 or so years, and the Qunari haven't been interested in pushing for more. 

[Drakar123]

Mundanes would also become tranquil.They have a connection to the fade as well.Not that their opinion matters in the slightest.

As for the veil.The physical world and fade may not have always been sperate.As I said before we don't have enough information.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

Neither are abominations, hence abominations are no major threat and the templars are craven liars. Booya.

Broken Cirlce proved otherwise as all the senior enchanters barring Wynne were massacred, Redcliffe was almost decimated by Connor, Meredith's sister happened, and is why the Tevinter used Templers to slay them.

If Tevinter could have killed off the Qunari they would have done so by now; the Qunari are holding the Tevinter in check against the southern nations of Thedas. If the Qunari were eliminated, they could use their supposedly awesome magics against the south. As they have not done so, is it not reasonable to assume that it is either too cumbersome to use effectively or too unreliable to use effectively?

No, because we don't know enough about that conflict, and our only information comes from someone with an    incredibly strong bias against one side.

Yet he teamed up with rebels and killed members of the other side after Danarius abandoned him.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Drakar123]

Lotion Soronar I would ask you to kindly read the previous pages of this thread for an explanation as to why elves are no longer ruling thedas.I hate repeating myself.

And should the magisters ever truly wish to destroy the qunari they could but then they would no lnger have the power to fight against the other nations.

[The Hierophant]

[quote]The Hierophant wrote...

[quote]Neither are abominations, hence abominations are no major threat and the templars are craven liars. Booya.[/quote] Broken Cirlce proved otherwise as all the senior enchanters barring Wynne were massacred, Redcliffe was almost decimated by Connor, Meredith's sister happened, and is why the Tevinter used Templers to slay them.

[quote]No, because we don't know enough about that conflict, and our only information comes from someone with an    incredibly strong bias against one side.[/quote]Yet he teamed up with rebels and killed members of the other side after Danarius abandoned him.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Xilizhra]

You mean the mages that Tevinter sent out to do their dirty work are not abominations. Shocking, truly. Most mages in the Circle are not abominations (in part due to the Harrowing). Abominations are still a threat. In fact, that isn't even an argument.

You missed my point. You're using a purely mechanical argument. To use this and then claim that abominations are truly dangerous in lore is hypocritical.

Uh huh. Considering you're perfectly willing to believe the Dalish, I'd say you've already made up your mind and would ignore any evidence that came from outside of Fenris. We know it's been a stalemate for ~300 or so years, and the Qunari haven't been interested in pushing for more.

They're certainly interested in pushing back into Seheron.

Yet he teamed up with rebels and killed members of the other side after Danarius abandoned him.

Just because he's not a fan of the qunari doesn't mean he hates Tevinter less.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Unacceptable solution (to you) presented by the Dragon Age universe : For the safety of both mages and mundanes, lock up the mages, let them study and practice their magics, and if they've proven themselves, let them go outside, many times without a Templar escort.

Acceptable solution (to you) presented by you: Eliminate the larger faction, nevermind abominations.

I'll accept something similar to the first one if the Chantry is gone and the templars wiped out. For the time being.

The Chantry has protected Southern Thedas for centuries, if not Millenia, from Tevinter influence, united the nations of Southern Thedas against the Qunari through exalted marches and provided a solution better than 'kill mages kthnx'.  The Templars protect the mundane from mages and mages from the mundane.  You are basically advocating for the destruction of the one international group (mind the Grey Wardens, who only exist for Blights) and the mage police because you don't like them.

Tough.

[Drakar123]

Abominations are not a threath if the mages are taught to properly control demons.Tarohne as insane as she was did not get possessed because she was capable of enslaving demons.Possession would be almost nonexistant if mages were taught how to bend demons to their will.

Honestly this thread is moving too fast for me.I can't write long and comprehensive posts anymore...

Modifié par Drakar123, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[The Elder King]

Drakar123 wrote...

Mundanes would also become tranquil.They have a connection to the fade as well.Not that their opinion matters in the slightest.

.

You know, you'd make an excellent qunari. Or a prothean.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

You mean the mages that Tevinter sent out to do their dirty work are not abominations. Shocking, truly. Most mages in the Circle are not abominations (in part due to the Harrowing). Abominations are still a threat. In fact, that isn't even an argument.

You missed my point. You're using a purely mechanical argument. To use this and then claim that abominations are truly dangerous in lore is hypocritical.

Uh huh. Considering you're perfectly willing to believe the Dalish, I'd say you've already made up your mind and would ignore any evidence that came from outside of Fenris. We know it's been a stalemate for ~300 or so years, and the Qunari haven't been interested in pushing for more.

They're certainly interested in pushing back into Seheron.

Yet he teamed up with rebels and killed members of the other side after Danarius abandoned him.

Just because he's not a fan of the qunari doesn't mean he hates Tevinter less.

So by your logic we can discount mages claims of life in the Circle Tower as bias too?

[Drakar123]

hhh89 wrote...

Drakar123 wrote...

Mundanes would also become tranquil.They have a connection to the fade as well.Not that their opinion matters in the slightest.

.

You know, you'd make an excellent qunari. Or a prothean.

Really ?I disagree.I am strongly pro free will.I simply have no issue with treating inferior beings as inferior beings.

[Xilizhra]

The Chantry has protected Southern Thedas for centuries, if not Millenia, from Tevinter influence, united the nations of Southern Thedas against the Qunari through exalted marches and provided a solution better than 'kill mages kthnx'. The Templars protect the mundane from mages and mages from the mundane. You are basically advocating for the destruction of the one international group (mind the Grey Wardens, who only exist for Blights) and the mage police because you don't like them.

Not their destruction, simply their disempowerment.

So by your logic we can discount mages claims of life in the Circle Tower as bias too?

No. If Anders was the only source we ever had and we never saw a Circle or spoke to anyone from one, then maybe.

[KainD]

Drakar123 wrote...

Abominations are not a threath if the mages are taught to properly control demons.Tarohne as insane as she was did not get possessed because she was capable of enslaving demons.Possession would be almost nonexistant if mages were taught how to bend demons to their will.

Or you know, you could actually not be an as* to the demons as well and work out legit deals, that don't end up bad. It is possible.