294 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ah, but no, we see an OLD Magister is extremely powerful (Corphy). Danarius, however, despite being a Magister, isn't very impressive. The Lyrium tats that he can imprint are cool, but he was kind of a downer there. So, for you now, Danarius was either a weak magister, or all magisters are that weak.

Will you say that Duke Prosper is an inherently more powerful adversary than Danarius, too? Also, Corypheus kept calling on Dumat to give him his more formidable powers.

Yes, and as Fenris says, the Tevinter are throwing themselves at it, while it isn't even worth a mention from Sten or Ari.

Ah, yes, because foreign military officers are so eager to chat about the specifics of ongoing issues. Especially, in the Arishok's case, to outright enemies.

Which has what to do with the mages being allowed outside the Circle without supervision? And the vote was near 50-50, if I recall correctly.

In terms of the fraternities of significant size, it was 2-1; the Isolationist and Lucrosian votes didn't really count. And the point is that "being allowed outside sometimes" wasn't enough of a privilege for them to not be oppressive hellholes.

Kain, we are not doing this again. We've had this discussion on Morinth before, ME 3 is out, there is no option to side with her and even her sisters hate her. Put it down.

No, go on, I'm intrigued. It was rather a waste to just kill her off like that.

[Drakar123]

The Hierophant wrote...

Drakar123 wrote...

I also loved her personality...I did have an issue with how she was given the choice of either imprisonment or execution if that's what you meant.That is one of the main reasons I sided with her.I despise people like samara...

You sided with a serial killer who'd make Hannibal Lecter nervous? lol

Serial killers are people too you know.They deserve a chance for redemption especially when their life was not their own fault...Okay...I chuckled a little when I wrote that.

Anyway KainD It's always nice to meet a like minded individual. 

[KainD]

The Hierophant wrote...
You sided with a serial killer who'd make Hannibal Lecter nervous? lol

hhh89 wrote...
Depending if the really choose to escape to have the choice of choosing her fate of for her dipendency. 
Though I don't think this is the right place to discuss it.

Yeah, guys we had like a hundred+ pages of disscusion about Morinth and how we feel about her, with VERY varying opinions. 

Would probably shouldn't discuss it here, lest it blows out of proportion. 

[The Hierophant]

Drakar123 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Drakar123 wrote...

I also loved her personality...I did have an issue with how she was given the choice of either imprisonment or execution if that's what you meant.That is one of the main reasons I sided with her.I despise people like samara...

You sided with a serial killer who'd make Hannibal Lecter nervous? lol

Serial killers are people too you know.They deserve a chance for redemption especially when their life was not their own fault...Okay...I chuckled a little when I wrote that.

Anyway KainD It's always nice to meet a like minded individual. 

To each their own i guess... 

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...


Will you say that Duke Prosper is an inherently more powerful adversary than Danarius, too? Also, Corypheus kept calling on Dumat to give him his more formidable powers.

Unless can you prove that Dumat is still alive (which I think it might happen), we can't say for sure that Dumat was helping Corypheus.

Kain, we are not doing this again. We've had this discussion on Morinth before, ME 3 is out, there is no option to side with her and even her sisters hate her. Put it down.

No, go on, I'm intrigued. It was rather a waste to just kill her off like that.

I agree on that. But it's not like Bioware did a decent job with ME2's companions. She only get the worse of it.

[Drakar123]

Is it just me or has this thread gone severely off topic ?We were supposed to be discussing weather tevinter was responsible for the mage rebellion but then this turned to a thread about mage supremacy and now we are talking about ME...

[KainD]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, go on, I'm intrigued. It was rather a waste to just kill her off like that.

I heard that they just didn't have the chance to work with the actress properly, and that it was the main reason for why Morinth wasn't a more major figure. Frankly yeah, she should have been in the seclusion instead of Samara for that mission. 

[Xilizhra]

Unless can you prove that Dumat is still alive (which I think it might happen), we can't say for sure that Dumat was helping Corypheus.

Dumat certainly answered my sacrifice.

I agree on that. But it's not like Bioware did a decent job with ME2's companions. She only get the worse of it.

They did well with Jack and Grunt, at least. Kasumi and Zaeed, too, for their DLC state. And I'd say Mordin and Legion. Really, it's only Miranda, Jacob, Samara and Thane, aside from Morinth, who had serious issues.

[Palidane]

Just curious, what did you think was bad about Samara's appearance? She got a whole mission, a lot of characterization, and a very dramatic moment at the end.

[Xilizhra]

Palidane wrote...

Just curious, what did you think was bad about Samara's appearance? She got a whole mission, a lot of characterization, and a very dramatic moment at the end.

Her near-robotic behavior and her lack of doing anything outside the Code, or even acknowledging a self outside it. Unlike in ME2, where we got lines like "I am a ruined vessel of sorrow and regret, but I am free."

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Will you say that Duke Prosper is an inherently more powerful adversary than Danarius, too? Also, Corypheus kept calling on Dumat to give him his more formidable powers.

Ah, yes, because foreign military officers are so eager to chat about the specifics of ongoing issues. Especially, in the Arishok's case, to outright enemies.

In terms of the fraternities of significant size, it was 2-1; the Isolationist and Lucrosian votes didn't really count. And the point is that "being allowed outside sometimes" wasn't enough of a privilege for them to not be oppressive hellholes.

No, go on, I'm intrigued. It was rather a waste to just kill her off like that.

Dumat is supposed to be dead, I believe he was also wondering why Dumat wasn't answering his calls beforehand.  Still, we have a powerful Magister from a time when magic was powerful, and a new magister, who isn't all that impressive aside from his magical experiments.

Considering what you and Sten / Ari talk about, yeah.  Sten more or less tells you that it's going to hit the fan within the Warden's lifetime.

It was the decision of the fraternities to be a Senate rather than a House, so "doesn't really count" isn't a fair argument.  A hellhole?  Are you kidding?  In DA:O only the Human/Dwarf Noble had a better background, and the Mage background was safer still.  The Alienage is a hellhole.  Dust Town is a hellhole.  The Circle?  Please.  Being allowed outside for indefinite periods of time without supervision of a Templar isn't one of the things that you want?  Good gracious, you would hand the Mages the world and claim it wasn't enough.

Then go make a topic in the ME 2/3 forum.

[Drakar123]

Dumat could have survived as an OGB.He may have planned the blights as a way to become free.And I wonder how Cory could influence the tevinet-qunari conflict.Should the imperium gain control of the darkspawn I see this war turning in their favor..

[KainD]

Drakar123 wrote...

Dumat could have survived as an OGB.He may have planned the blights as a way to become free.And I wonder how Cory could influence the tevinet-qunari conflict.Should the imperium gain control of the darkspawn I see this war turning in their favor..

I wonder what is the canon on the Architect, because then no one could have control over darkspawn, and I am not sure what they will do at all.

Modifié par KainD, 18 décembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[Drakar123]

I wondered about that too.If he was like Cory,he could have possessed a nearby dawkspawn and survived.Cory is a bit of a wildcard at the moment.Should he go back to tevinter and side with it,I see the imperium defeating the qunari and then turning on the rest of thedas.Control of the darkspawn would aside from giving them a big army allow them to blackmail the dwraves and grey wardens into helping them.They would also be able to freely travel through the deep roads.

[KainD]

krul2k wrote...

dragons are manipulating everything

There are mages that can manipulate dragons. 

[Drakar123]

That's highly likely yes.Perhaps they wish to create enough conflict to completely destroy the veil ?It seems in their best interest to do so since they ruled the world before it existed.It's possible that they are responsible for a great deal of conflicts which occured on thedas.

[iOnlySignIn]

From what we've seen of Dragons, they are not very smart, or even sentient.

However, it IS obvious that Magic have greatly weakened throughout the history of Thedas. It is virtually impossible for Dragon Age Mages to replicate the feats done by the Magisters of old, such as

- Sinking a metropolis (Arlathan) into the ground in a single battle

- Physically enter the Fade and invade the Golden City

- Carving an entire harbor (Kirkwall) out of solid rock

- Living for thousands of years (Corypheus)

Even the most talented Dragon Age Mages

- Needs a bomb and months of preparation to level one building (Kirkwall Chantry)

- Requires great effort just to navigate the Fade without being possessed by Demons

- Are considered strong if they can manipulate rocks the size of a Golem

- Are considered talented and useful if they can heal common ailments such as STDs

Sure there are *more* Mages than before. But with the increase in quantity comes a decrease in quality. You might almost say that the *total amount* of Magic remains the same, but it just gets *diluted* into more vessels.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 18 décembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[lil yonce]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

However, it IS obvious that Magic have greatly weakened throughout the history of Thedas. It is virtually impossible for Dragon Age Mages to replicate the feats done by the Magisters of old, such as [snip]. Sure there are *more* Mages than before. But with the increase in quantity comes a decrease in quality. You might almost say that the *total amount* of Magic remains the same, but it just gets *diluted* into more vessels.

I don't think magic has weakend in Thedas. Outside Tevinter, the Chantry controls mages and just won't allow them the slightest opportunity to perform such powerful magic, and within Tevinter, the magical ruling class rarely seems united enough to accomplish anything significant. The Orlesian Chantry and Tevinter self-interest seems to have killed the tradition of strong magics, not the birth of new mages. And considering Tevinter power came from the malovent Old Gods, it may be for the best. Magic was tearing Thedas apart.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 18 décembre 2012 - 03:01 .

[Plaintiff]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

From what we've seen of Dragons, they are not very smart, or even sentient.

However, it IS obvious that Magic have greatly weakened throughout the history of Thedas. It is virtually impossible for Dragon Age Mages to replicate the feats done by the Magisters of old, such as

- Sinking a metropolis (Arlathan) into the ground in a single battle

- Physically enter the Fade and invade the Golden City

- Carving an entire harbor (Kirkwall) out of solid rock

- Living for thousands of years (Corypheus)

Even the most talented Dragon Age Mages

- Needs a bomb and months of preparation to level one building (Kirkwall Chantry)

- Requires great effort just to navigate the Fade without being possessed by Demons

- Are considered strong if they can manipulate rocks the size of a Golem

- Are considered talented and useful if they can heal common ailments such as STDs

Sure there are *more* Mages than before. But with the increase in quantity comes a decrease in quality. You might almost say that the *total amount* of Magic remains the same, but it just gets *diluted* into more vessels.

But according to the lore, those feats occurred at an even earlier time, when virtually everyone was a mage, so it's not an issue of magic being "diluted".

For undisclosed reasons, mages became rare, and only in recent years are they seeing a resurgence in numbers, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed. But they're still nowhere near their original numbers.

[Herr Uhl]

Plaintiff wrote...

But according to the lore, those feats occurred at an even earlier time, when virtually everyone was a mage, so it's not an issue of magic being "diluted".

What lore?

[iOnlySignIn]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Outside Tevinter, the Chantry controls mages and just won't allow them the slightest opportunity to perform such powerful magic

That is quite possible.

within Tevinter, the magical ruling class rarely seems united enough to accomplish anything significant.

For how long? Centuries at least? That's unlikely.

Also, there are Mages who are neither in the Circles nor in Tevinter. Such as the Witches of the Wilds, the Dalish Keepers, Grey Warden Mages, and Circle escapees (such as Malcolm Hawke) and their Mage offsprings. None of them, not even Flemeth, have demonstrated Magic comparable to the old Magisters.

The Dalish Keepers, in particular, could greatly benefit their Clans with the sort of terraforming skills possessed by ancient Tevinters. And the Chantry mostly just leaves the Keepers alone. The Grey Warden Mages too - I'm sure no one in Thedas would begrudge them a few spectacular displays of power if it means stopping a Blight.

Tevinter power came from the malovent Old Gods

That's Chantry propaganda and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 18 décembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Xilizhra]

The real reason behind this is that it's more dramatic to find hints of ancient, powerful magic than to find ancient magic that's the same as the magic that's all around you already. At least, at this point in time. DA3 might be the time to rip off that restraint.

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

The real reason behind this is that it's more dramatic to find hints of ancient, powerful magic than to find ancient magic that's the same as the magic that's all around you already. At least, at this point in time. DA3 might be the time to rip off that restraint.

On the contrary. I think it's historical fact rather than dramatic license.

Compare with how a great part of classical knowledge was lost in Western Europe (and in Byzantium too, to a less extent) after the fall of Roma to the barbarians. I'm pretty sure DA's writers have this RL historical parallel in mind.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 18 décembre 2012 - 03:18 .

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The real reason behind this is that it's more dramatic to find hints of ancient, powerful magic than to find ancient magic that's the same as the magic that's all around you already. At least, at this point in time. DA3 might be the time to rip off that restraint.

On the contrary. I think it's historical fact rather than dramatic license.

Compare with how a great part of classical knowledge was lost in Western Europe (and in Byzantium too, to a less extent) after the fall of Roma to the barbarians. I'm pretty sure DA's writers have this RL historical parallel in mind.

It's possible, but I doubt tremendously that the Dragon Age is going to be about the reduction of knowledge and power; I believe more of both will be accumulated.