209 réponses à ce sujet

[SNascimento]

Sweawm wrote...

To be the best game in the series, that's what. I honestly could have gone for an entire saga of Mass Effect games that focus on the characters. Reapers are overrated.

Isn't it funny? I mean, I loved Harby in ME2, but he obviously wasn't the focus. And if you pick ME3 and ask people what part was their favorite, Tuchanka and Rannoch would probably be the most picked choices, and in both cases the reapers are just in the background.

Modifié par SNascimento, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[nos_astra]

Sweawm wrote...
To be the best game in the series, that's what. I honestly could have gone for an entire saga of Mass Effect games that focus on the characters. Reapers are overrated.

I fail to see how ME2 focussed on the characters. They had lots of characters and everyone had two missions of which at least one was usually shallow nonsense.

Tell me, how did Garrus and Miranda get along?
What did Samara think of Jack?
Was Mordin respected by Joker?
Did Joker ever show any remorse for disobeying orders in the intro?
At what point does Shepard reflect on what it means to be alive? Or anyone else?

Focus on the characters? Not nearly enough for the big black hole of nothing that is ME2's story.

Modifié par klarabella, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[SNascimento]

klarabella wrote...

Sweawm wrote...
To be the best game in the series, that's what. I honestly could have gone for an entire saga of Mass Effect games that focus on the characters. Reapers are overrated.

I fail to see how ME2 focussed on the characters. They had lots of characters and everyone had two missions of which at least one was usually shallow nonsense.

Tell me, how did Garrus and Miranda get along?
What did Samara think of Jack?
Was Mordin respected by Joker?
Did Joker ever show any remorse for disobeying orders in the intro?
At what point does Shepard reflect on what it means to be alive? Or anyone else?

Focus on the characters? Not nearly enough for the big black hole of nothing that is ME2's story.

Well, although I understand your point, the bolded one can actually be answered by the comments both made before the suicide mission, when you have to pick a squad leader. 

[Rip504]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Perhaps for those whom fail to understand ME2,it may just simply be beyond your comprehension.
Perhaps not.

Also for me,Tali made ME2 and was more then enough to enjoy the game. The Quarian/Geth conflict has always been one of my fav issues within the ME series. ME2 introduced us to what we are saving.

That doesn't even make sense becaues you're only saving humans in ME2, with just common interaction with other species..which in actualaity you are saving the galaxy.

What is the galaxy to you? For some it is about saving humanity. For others it may differ. You learn about Protheans,Collectors etc. You can decide how you feel about the Geth/Quarian conflict and make choices voice your opinion. Do you help cure the Krogan or not. Do you sympathize withe Cerberus or do you see past their guise. How did the Events of Horizon effect your Shepard. You have now seen first hand what the Reapers are doing and are capable of. The absolute massacre without any emotion to show for it,a cold hard relentless approach. It expands upon Garrus,Tali,Wrex,Liara,and Ash characters,while introducing a cast of compelling characters and their connection to your Shepard. The SM and all of the choices involved. ME2 sets you deeper into the ME galaxy and gives emotion and a cause to fight for. To save the galaxy. Stopping the Collectors does help save humans. It also weakens the Reapers and helps this cycle chances. It touches on what is now becoming the Reaper war. It also expands and touches on many Alien cultures. It is a great and compelling title that ties well into the rest of the series. The DLC is very good as well. The Shadow Broker was a big question and a great mystery in ME1 and ME2. Then LotSB reveals the SB,a great and innovative reveal at that. Great combat,story,scenery etc. Then it concludes with Liara a fan fav becoming the New SB.

Arrival is just that. No matter how hard you have tried,all that you have done and seen,all of the choices and outcomes and potential outcomes,the 300,000 plus lives lost,the Reapers are coming and all that you have done and accomplished is now in jeopardy. All that you have connected to. ME2 ties you into the series,connect you with the ME universe,exposing you to a lot,and then acknowledges all is in jeopardy of being lost and it is your job to save and defend it. ME2 sets up the Reaper war in ME3. IMO.

In ME2 you are indeed taking steps to save the galaxy. Not only Humanity.

[SpamBot2000]

It is the ease of the Arrival of the Reapers that makes ME2 seem pointless to many. Why did they bother with the Collector/Harb plot when they could just have stepped in? ME2 could have made all kinds of sense had Arrival/ME3 allowed it to.

That's what you get for changing your lead writer in the middle of the series. Into Mac Walters. Who obviously had neither great respect for nor basic understanding of the founding work of Mr. Karpyshyn.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:23 .

[nos_astra]

SpamBot2000 wrote...
It is the ease of the Arrival of the Reapers that makes ME2 seem pointless to many. Why did they bother with the Collector/Harb plot when they could just have stepped in? ME2 could have made all kinds of sense had Arrival/ME3 allowed it to.

I suppose ME3 made things worse for ME2 but that doesn't mean ME2 didn't manage to dig itself a hole, crawl in and wait for divine intervention to get it back up again.

Arrival also started to erode the things established in ME1 (Sovereign tried for several 100 or even 1000 years to find out what was wrong with the Keepers and find a way to open the relay to dark space).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The point of ME2 was to have fun and show you how an epic ending is done, so that you could really notice the contrast of not having fun in ME3, especially at the end.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

To be nothing more than a playground for the writers so they can do whatever the hell they want, screw the fact that its a trilogy! Mac and the boys wants a suicide mission with a bunch of colorful characters!

That might make a good game, but it makes for a terrible second act in a trilogy.

[Rip504]

klarabella wrote...

Arrival also started to erode the things established in ME1 (Sovereign tried for several 100 or even 1000 years to find out what was wrong with the Keepers and find a way to open the relay to dark space).

Because seizing the Citadel(the heart of Citadel space) and shutting down the relay system vs jumping into Batarian space through the Alpha relay are the same thing.

Modifié par Rip504, 16 décembre 2012 - 10:50 .

[nos_astra]

ME1 established that the Reapers were trapped in dark space.
ME2 killed this by saying they can essentially fly in and will try other relays along the way.
ME3 then removed the need to seize the Citadel and shut down the relays.

[Fnork]

To give Bioware time to figure out where they want to go with ME3 ?

[darkway1]

Mass2 was a fantastic gaming experience......the game introduced the collectors,Cerberus,Tim,Omega and as a player you get to understand how the Mass Universe functions from the perspective of different species and crew............with all that on the table there were still plenty of obvious planets yet to discover,species to know better and the reapers prime goal was still a mystery..............all great reasons why people looked forward to Mass3.

The tone of Mass3 is a totally different experience however........Bioware didn't have to end Shepard's story in the form of a trilogy,they didn't have to end the reaper war,the story could have continued via a few more games easily and news of Mass4 highlights that Bioware had no intention of ending the franchise.

By forcing the pace of Mass3's direction and experience (it's the end) it undermined the standards/tone of what Mass1 and 2 setout. Mass2 was a glorious adventure,people seem to forget that it's success and popularity is the reason why Mass3 sold millions.

[spirosz]

Jack.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

filler

[Dean_the_Young]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only characters that drive the plot of ME2 are largely TIM with his handing out of plot tickets and to a lesser extent Kelly with her telling Shepard which daddy issue needs solving at the moment.

If you want to play a real character driven story then get yourself Persona 4. All the characters' struggles are tied to the main plot and theme.

Why is it important that all struggles be related to the plot and theme? Does real life parse itself so neatly? Doesn't that make a story seem so artificial instead of organic? Do you have to feel something is only important to your goal to help and acquaintance or friend? I'd rather have randomness than happenstance where everything aligns perfectly. It does not all need to be related.

Narrative coherence. It's not like Mass Effect doesn't try for themes and reoccuring ideas... they're just really, really disjoined, and not in an organic way.

What, for example, does Jack's loyalty mission add to the plot or narrative? It doesn't add to showing Cerberus as an 'at all costs' organization given that it was a rogue operation, and it didn't make anyone seem competent given how the stupid-evil sadism made no sense of advancing any nominal goals. It was just a case of 'look at how bad they were! Do you feel bad now?'

[ATiBotka]

3DandBeyond wrote...

ME3 should have answered all the questions raised in ME1 and 2. As it is, ME2 seemed to be about the Collectors being sent in to get Shepard, to learn about humans (the threat as the reapers see them), and as vanguards for the reapers who were thwarted when Sovereign was destroyed. They have an obsession about humans (looking for mutations, wanting Shepard's body, and so on).

But, you look at what they did. They set a plague upon Omega-one that kills everyone but Vorcha and Humans. So, they'd have to explain that. How can you tie that story and ME3 together?

Dark Energy ending is the answer.

[David7204]

The 'point' of Jack's loyalty mission was character development.

[Shermos]

I'll repeat what I've said many times before. It doesn't advance the Reaper plot very much, but it fleshes out the universe. It helps give us a reason to care in ME3. I personally enjoyed ME2 more than I did ME1.

[David7204]

Yes, and let's not pretend that this sort of thing is somehow uncommon. How many stories of significant length are there where the final resolution of the conflict has anything to do with what occurs during the middle? Sure as hell not very many video games.

[Dean_the_Young]

SNascimento wrote...

Sweawm wrote...

To be the best game in the series, that's what. I honestly could have gone for an entire saga of Mass Effect games that focus on the characters. Reapers are overrated.

Isn't it funny? I mean, I loved Harby in ME2, but he obviously wasn't the focus. And if you pick ME3 and ask people what part was their favorite, Tuchanka and Rannoch would probably be the most picked choices, and in both cases the reapers are just in the background.

The Reapers have always been more of a framing device than an active participant. Given how vague ME1 ended ('trapped in dark space'), the entire trilogy could have conceivably gone by without the Reapers ever arriving in the galaxy in-mass.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

The 'point' of Jack's loyalty mission was character development.

There's no Mass Effect 1 without Jack. 

[David7204]

Is there any 'epic fiction' where this isn't the case? The characters and setting always take precedence over the central conflict.

[Dean_the_Young]

As for the OP, I'd suppose that the 'point' of ME2 was to have another Mass Effect game. That's the long and short of it: the series wasn't actually planned out as a trilogy, given the open admissions that Cerberus wasn't even conceived as a major faction until after ME1, and it really shows in ME2: Shepard begins the game not having any leads on how to beat the Reapers, and ends the game not having any leads on how to beat the Reapers.

There were certainly key plot threads raised in ME2 that were continued in ME3... but these were never the main focus of ME2, and were only raised in the optional loyalty missions. These threads (Geth, Quarians, Genophage) could easily have been raised in other implementations of a second game.

[Dean_the_Young]

David7204 wrote...

The 'point' of Jack's loyalty mission was character development.

And what did it develop her character as? Someone who was traumatized in a laughably contrived manner by laughably one-dimensional villains. Her end-mission choice, rather than affecting future development as a killer or moving past her past, has no effect on her future role as a teacher.

It's not like it was even a mystery that she'd had a past with suffering either, given her on-ship dialogue.