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[Cadence of the Planes]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

 The only kind of valuable useful information you get from Mass Effect 2 pertaining to the rest of the series is that the Collecters are modified Protheans and the collectors are abducting humans to build a "humanoid" reaper.  Nothing to do with overall stopping the Reapers or slowing them down.  I feel like the game is a huge side quest pertaining to the overall plot of the series.  Which is why I never got why they wanted to bring ME2 to other platforms so much but leave out ME1 until later.  You can honestly take ME2 out of the series and go straight from ME1 to ME3, maybe play Arrival DLC but that's about it.

Am I missing something?

Character development, and building shepard's repoirtoire of relationships- both friends/lovers as well as enemies.

[Nerevar-as]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

Guy On The Moon wrote...

 The only kind of valuable useful information you get from Mass Effect 2 pertaining to the rest of the series is that the Collecters are modified Protheans and the collectors are abducting humans to build a "humanoid" reaper.  Nothing to do with overall stopping the Reapers or slowing them down.  I feel like the game is a huge side quest pertaining to the overall plot of the series.  Which is why I never got why they wanted to bring ME2 to other platforms so much but leave out ME1 until later.  You can honestly take ME2 out of the series and go straight from ME1 to ME3, maybe play Arrival DLC but that's about it.

Am I missing something?

Character development, and building shepard's repoirtoire of relationships- both friends/lovers as well as enemies.

Of all that, only TIM mattered.

Adavances Genopahge & Geth/quarian plots. But as far as main plot is concerned, ME2 was utterly pointless. Stopping the Collectors did nothing to stop the Reapers, the CB choice was pointless, and relationship with TIM & Cerberus go 180º, so they made no difference.

A bit of advice for next time. Even if you don´t plan everything (anything?) from the beginning, at least try to use significant elements from previous games in the sequels.

[o Ventus]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

Guy On The Moon wrote...

 The only kind of valuable useful information you get from Mass Effect 2 pertaining to the rest of the series is that the Collecters are modified Protheans and the collectors are abducting humans to build a "humanoid" reaper.  Nothing to do with overall stopping the Reapers or slowing them down.  I feel like the game is a huge side quest pertaining to the overall plot of the series.  Which is why I never got why they wanted to bring ME2 to other platforms so much but leave out ME1 until later.  You can honestly take ME2 out of the series and go straight from ME1 to ME3, maybe play Arrival DLC but that's about it.

Am I missing something?

Character development, and building shepard's repoirtoire of relationships- both friends/lovers as well as enemies.

Of all that, only TIM mattered.

Adavances Genopahge & Geth/quarian plots. But as far as main plot is concerned, ME2 was utterly pointless. Stopping the Collectors did nothing to stop the Reapers, the CB choice was pointless, and relationship with TIM & Cerberus go 180º, so they made no difference.

A bit of advice for next time. Even if you don´t plan everything (anything?) from the beginning, at least try to use significant elements from previous games in the sequels.

Are you placing the blame for this on ME2 itself, or on something else?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 What's with this running lie (like a running joke, but a lie instead of a joke) that ME2 was the best game of the trilogy?


ME2 would be a side-mission in ME3 lololol.

[Nerevar-as]

o Ventus wrote...

Are you placing the blame for this on ME2 itself, or on something else?

At the moment I liked the game, and have replayed several times. If the CB choice had been well implemented, the T-Reaper meant something other than Starbrat´s madness, and the Cerberus arc gone other way, we would proably be saying what a great set up it had been. As it turned out, it feels mostly like filler to make a trilogy without enough main plot for one.

[Dean_the_Young]

David7204 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The 'point' of Jack's loyalty mission was character development.

And what did it develop her character as? Someone who was traumatized in a laughably contrived manner by laughably one-dimensional villains. Her end-mission choice, rather than affecting future development as a killer or moving past her past, has no effect on her future role as a teacher.

It's not like it was even a mystery that she'd had a past with suffering either, given her on-ship dialogue.

I think it should it be pretty obvious that Jack is not a very reliable source for how cruel or not the Cerberus scientists were. Aside from her, the only evidence I remember on the treatment she got was the one recording the of scientist very tiredly discussing how a test failed and a bunch of kids died. How is this all 'contrived' again?

Because the horrors of Teltin are such a naked appeal to emotion rather than reason (or at least reasonable evil) that they served as little more than sympathy bait for Jack. Drug conditioning to fight other human children (ie, the lab subjects)? High mortality rates of doing the same failed experiment over and over for some throw-away rational with no credible reason for being effective? The blood-stained floors around wrist-lock chairs? The lack of any indication or attempt at actually indoctrinating (classic definition, not Reaper-tech) Jack into pro-Human views?

Even within the scope of Jack's unreliability, Teltin was an incompetent project if it had any purpose of creating a Cerberus-controlled super-biotic.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nerevar-as wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Are you placing the blame for this on ME2 itself, or on something else?

At the moment I liked the game, and have replayed several times. If the CB choice had been well implemented, the T-Reaper meant something other than Starbrat´s madness, and the Cerberus arc gone other way, we would proably be saying what a great set up it had been. As it turned out, it feels mostly like filler to make a trilogy without enough main plot for one.

I honestly suspect that a part of it was because they wanted a significant role for Cerberus in ME3 that would underline their opportunism and willingness to be galactic antagonists, but couldn't think of a role besides the also-needed 'non-Reaper/non-Geth 'organic' enemy' faction. They needed an enemy besides the Reapers, but between already marginalizing the Geth and not having many other alternatives, they chose Cerberus in part to keep Cerberus in a major roll.

Personally, I would have chosen the Batarians: even the Control plot thread could have worked well with their Slaver themes, and after Arrival (and with the Reaper's already considerable influences and indoctrination) it wouldn't be too hard to re-create a scenario in which the Batarians replace Cerberus as a Reaper-proxy antagonist. But at the same time, with so little Batarian development and the risk of marginalizing Cerberus, I can see (if not agree) a reason not to.

[Someone With Mass]

Well, it certainly didn't set a standard, that's for sure.

[grey_wind]

It's almost hilarious (in a sad way) how much ME3 goes out of its way to make ME2 irrelevant:

- Liara's role is a much more natural progression of her ME1 self as a Prothean expert, and her role as the Shadow Broker is irrelevant.
- The Collector Base (and all the info we datamined from it if we blew it up) is of no importance beyond 10 EMS points.
- Cerberus is back to its herpy-derpy stupid evil for stupid evil's sake nonsense.
- The Heretic-Orthodox division between the Geth never mattered, because they all work for the Reapers anyway come ME3.
- Geth build our own future was forgotten somewhere, and now the only way an AI has true intelligence is if it acts and behaves like an organic.
- The Genophage is apparently KILLING the Krogan. Every pro-Genophage argument from ME2 is thrown out the airlock.
- None of your squadmates or the alliances you built with them matter, because they all have convenient generic replacements who can do their job perfectly, undermining all their character arcs (the only exceptions being Legion and Tali)
- Shepard forgot the Rachni promised to help him fight the Reapers in ME2, and keeps acting like the last conversation he had with the Queen was on Noveria
- The Reaper IFF (so strongly implied to be the key to breaking the Citadel Relay lockdown) is only used as joke fodder by EDI for some throwaway dialogue.
- Nothing comes out of Garrus' developing leadership skills, and his role also makes a lot more sense if you ignore his ME2 development.
- The Normandy's got sh!tty lighting (again!)

[d-boy15]

I think the reason why so many plot in ME2 be ignored or forgotten is because bioware need
ME3 to be a new entry for new player. also, from what I heard more than half of writers from
the previous game is not in ME3 team.

[Vigil_N7]

I'm glad not everyone here has revisionist history.

I frequented these forums regularly after completing ME2, and its strange to think that the rampant discussion of it and what lied ahead in ME3 lasted 2 years. While it was well-loved and received, a common complaint many had, and I'd agree, that if you look at the story as a whole, it didn't really flesh out the general story arc other than what happened to the protheans, who is leading the reapers after sovereign and it had the fleshing out of cerberus.

Story mission wise, you had Prologue > Freedom's progress > Horizon > Collector Ship > Reaper IFF > Suicide mission. While that's standard to say ME1, its worth noting ME2 is a 40 odd hour game depending on how much DLC you have, which means that very little is spent on developing the overall story arc.

Strength of ME2 lies in its character development and its sub-plots, most of them being intriguing and fascinating.

I'm glad I managed to find this picture, it sums it up pretty well. I'm not hating ME2, it was an incredible game and I rate it 10/10, but as joker says after the suicide mission, ME2 was just the calm before the **** storm

[tanisha__unknown]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

 The only kind of valuable useful information you get from Mass Effect 2 pertaining to the rest of the series is that the Collecters are modified Protheans and the collectors are abducting humans to build a "humanoid" reaper.  Nothing to do with overall stopping the Reapers or slowing them down.  I feel like the game is a huge side quest pertaining to the overall plot of the series.  Which is why I never got why they wanted to bring ME2 to other platforms so much but leave out ME1 until later.  You can honestly take ME2 out of the series and go straight from ME1 to ME3, maybe play Arrival DLC but that's about it.

Am I missing something?

You learn how Reapers procreate. Apart from that, you're right, the whole Reaper plot does not really advance.

[Team Value]

I think ME2 was supposed to be Mass Effect's Empire Strikes Back, but Bioware misinterpreted ENB like a lot of people seem to. ENB was not unrelated to the main plot of the Star Wars trilogy. If anything, it was the most plot-relevant of all of the Star Wars movies. The war between the Rebels and the Empire was not the plot of Star Wars, Luke's journey to becoming a hero was. The Rebellion was just the back drop Luke's quest took part within.

The Mass Effect storyline is not about Shepard's growth as a hero. In fact, it's not really clear what the central theme is other than defeating the Reapers, so that leaves ME2 being a complete sideshow. I suppose it's possible the over-arching theme of the story was supposed to be about overcoming impossible odds through teamwork and cooperation, but the ending kind of blows that out of the water.

[fr33stylez]

I would just love an official statement on what was the purpose of the Human-Reaper. That's all.

[Ticonderoga117]

The point of ME2 was to gather allies to help fight the Reapers and to stop a Reaper plot, during which we found data that should've proved invaluable to fighting them when they arrived (The datapad at the end of ME2). However, ME3 drops everything in favor of a new plot thingie and moves most of the ME2 squad to cameo appearances.

Thus, ME3 shot ME2 in the foot retroactively because to hell with previous games right?

[Evo_9]

No point at all.

Thats why i prefer ME1 and ME3.

ME2 is a waste of space.

[garrusfan1]

The way I look at it is ME1 introduced the reapers and ME2 got into explaining Cerberus a little. Honestly besides that it was filler

[jsamlaw]

It introduces TIM, fleshes out Cerberus, introduces dark energy (though that plot line was scrapped) and also adds several side characters that make cameos in ME3. It also touches upon what happened to the Protheans and served as a bridge to the Reaper invasion.

ME2 was the best of the 3 games.

[Someone With Mass]

Evo_9 wrote...

No point at all.

Thats why i prefer ME1 and ME3.

ME2 is a waste of space.

Say what you will about ME2, at least it didn't have wasted potential written all over it like ME3 did.

Also, the Catalyst is the best example of wasted space. And the Cerberus-related missions. And the fetch quests. And the majority of the story arcs that were built up in ME2 and came to a very anticlimactic resolution or were simply just dropped in ME3.

[Evo_9]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

No point at all.

Thats why i prefer ME1 and ME3.

ME2 is a waste of space.

Say what you will about ME2, at least it didn't have wasted potential written all over it like ME3 did.

Also, the Catalyst is the best example of wasted space. And the Cerberus-related missions. And the fetch quests. And the majority of the story arcs that were built up in ME2 and came to a very anticlimactic resolution or were simply just dropped in ME3.

well there was no potential in ME2, nothing made sense and it didnt help the story at all.

The only interesting thing about it was the dead reaper and reaper contruction....but they managed to screw that up also.

Reaper within a reaper....oh pleasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssse!!!!!

[Guy On The Moon]

I can see how ME3 is partially to blame for the irrelevancy of ME2 but now take ME3 out of the equation. Once you finish ME1 and you hear Anderson's and Shepard's last quotes, you'd expect some "Alright, let's figure out some more stuff that we can use to stop the Reapers" for the next game. ..but you get nothing of substance about the Reapers until you see some random humanoid Reaper you have to defeat because.....well, just because.

What was funny to me was I didn't even know Harbinger was a Reaper until I looked on Mass Effect wikia about a year after I even beat the game, and got my mind blown. I just thought Harbinger and the voice was just the Collector leader. That's how much ME2 strayed away from the overall theme for me. Looking back on the game after I beat it I'm wondering why I'm going on my own personal grand crusade instead of finding someway to deter the Reapers. Although you could say the same thing about side quests in ME3...I just thought at the end of ME2 all the stuff I did was going to tie into the main plot, but then I see a cinematic of Reapers rushing towards the galaxy and I'm like, well then....guess it's time to actually get to business now

[MegaSovereign]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

No point at all.

Thats why i prefer ME1 and ME3.

ME2 is a waste of space.

Say what you will about ME2, at least it didn't have wasted potential written all over it like ME3 did.

Also, the Catalyst is the best example of wasted space. And the Cerberus-related missions. And the fetch quests. And the majority of the story arcs that were built up in ME2 and came to a very anticlimactic resolution or were simply just dropped in ME3.

I disagree. The majority of the story arcs were handled pretty well overall. Especially the Genophage one.

Also how is the Catalyst "wasted space" if it's a big part of the plot? Say what you will about ME3's plot but ME2's plot was the weakest of the series by far.

[Nightwriter]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Say what you will about ME2, at least it didn't have wasted potential written all over it like ME3 did.

What. WHAT.

I don't even

ME2 had so much wasted potential that it almost physically hurt. Cerberus? Huge potential. Wasted. They didn't delve into your conflicted loyalties or give the Shepard/TIM interactions an exciting tug-of-war. They didn't tap the goldmine that was the Collectors. They introduced AWESOME characters that would possibly have been more interesting to watch interact than DA:O's characters, but left out any interaction.

Lazarus Station? Holy cow what an opportunity for roleplaying and storytelling drama. Swept under the rug. Forgotten. Everything that would have been great to explore in the narrative was tossed aside because the game refused to focus on the narrative.

Imagine if in ME2, TIM resurrects you, not because you're the protagonist, but because he has unearthed logs from some Prothean freedom fighters, recorded in the time of the Reaper/Prothean war. The recordings are in Prothean (which is why TIM needs you) and are told from the perspective of the leader of the Prothean resistance. The logs mention tales of a new phantom enemy, horrific in nature, who match the description of the Collectors. As you track down more beacon recordings, you come to know the Prothean leader through graybox-esque interactions, learning his story and his struggles to fight off the Collectors as you are -- only to then learn that not only are the Protheans Collectors, but the lead freedom fighter you've come to know is now the Collector General.

[Rip504]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

Those sub-plots are key moments and events that are taking place and helping you save the galaxy. IMO it does not hurt ME1 or the series in any way. It adds a great deal to the galaxy making it more then paper thin with heavy implications all over. Curing vs not curing the Krogan is pivotal point in the series. Its the Data in ME2. As you sit there and decide to cure the Krogan or not,one must take into account how it will affect the Reaper war.  So is the Quarian/Geth conflict as it is the foundation for the Catalyst statements. ME1 introduces us to ME. ME2 begins the Reaper war.

Without ME2 Cerberus would be a complete left field surprise in ME3. Where they play a major role. In ME2 we are not only stopping the Collectors and delivering a heavy blow to the Reapers. We are trying to prepare the galaxy for war.  Saving Earth and Humanity is a major step in preparation for the Reaper War. Do you think this galaxy would exist if humanity failed in ME2? Also what he said about the Human Reaper was good.

The Reapers are attacking,and we are now on the defensive. ME2 in a nutshell.

[nos_astra]

Rip504 wrote...
Those sub-plots are key moments and events that are taking place and helping you save the galaxy.

How are they key moments if they are completely irrelevant in the larger theme of things and entirely optional?
You can say you enjoyed them and that they are important to you but that doesn't make them key moments for anyone else.

Nothing you do in ME2 helps you save the galaxy. Shepard could have stayed dead and the story would have played out the same.

Modifié par klarabella, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .