323 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Barquiel wrote...

No where in that scene is Shep crying about Thessia. Shep is upset she lost the Catalyst.

She says: "It's my job to be prepared-- no matter what. And now Thessia is lost, as is the Catalyst." And that's all she says about Thessia itself (while she spends the entire game moping about Earth). The rest of the conversations are about how she failed to stop Kai Leng/Cerberus, and failed to get the Catalyst. At this moment, Shep has no clue where Kai Leng went and we have no idea how to find him. Sure, we...the players know the game will end 3 missions later, but if we put ourselves in Shepards shoes. Of course she's stressed and feels hopeless (ME1 had a similar scene as well). I mean, you can tell Liara that we couldn't have stoped the reapers on Thessia even if we got there before cerberus (and since Vendetta said it was programmed to withhold the information about the Catalyst until the Crucible was built...the result would have been exactly the same). Shepards breakdown isn't because the reapers invaded Thessia.

cool story bro.

I assume you noticed that in that line you quoted Thessia came first. Coincidence? Especially when it makes no goddamn sense. Thessia wasn't Shepard's responsability. It wasn't his fault they got roflstomped despite them holding out for the entire damn war up to that point.

And even when the joke comes out, does Shepard say "I just got my ass handed to me and we might just lose this entire war because of it, so **** off Joker"? No. He says "Millions of people died", as in millions of asari. Because that needed to be pointed out in a reality where millions, maybe even billions of other people are dying every day.

Please.

[Han Shot First]

In retrospect that scene probably should have included at least two dialogue options instead of going the autodialogue route, but had that scene been in a book or a film Shepard's reaction would be both realistic and understandable.

The war is potentially lost at Thessia and Shepard is blaming himself. After Thessia it looked as if the mission Shepard had been on since ME1 was ending in failure, with the absolute worst consequences imaginable. With that hanging around Shepard's neck Joker happened to say the wrong thing at the wrong moment and got used as  punching bag.

I will say that a "Ha ha! Good one Joker. High Five!" line would have been incredibly stupid, and an example of terrible writing. Some fans may have wanted something similar there, and for that I'm thankful that they aren't writers. There should have been another dialogue option where Shepard doesn't lash out at Joker, but that option also shouldn't be cheerful when the backdrop is the protagonist being faced with defeat and annihilation.

[SwobyJ]

"There should have been another dialogue option where Shepard doesn't lash out at Joker, but that option also shouldn't be cheerful when the backdrop is the protagonist being faced with defeat and annihilation. "

Possibly agreed.

I think he should have been upset either way, but the upper choice should have masked it more, and tried to deflect. Not with humor back to Joker, but a "Heh.. yeah... I suppose" and being more deep in thought than angry.

[Sundance31us]

shodiswe wrote...

What people forget is that the shouting is, in part, Shepard venting out frustration about what just happend, Joker just provided a reason/opportunity to let it all out.

Joker is the catalyst for Shepard's anger/frustration...at least he didn't go incorporeal for the scene.

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

At the end of the day, I think it's fair. I'm going to kill Joker's sexbot anyways. Everyone is at each other's throats.

I wonder what kind of outcry there would have been if they stuck with their original plan, where Liara can die at Thessia. Goddamn, this playerbase needs to be coddled far too much.

Aw yeeeeeeee.

You know I agree.


(Not with killing EDI though. It's not something I like to go for. More for love of Tricia Helfer than EDI though, but I do like EDI.)

Modifié par SwobyJ, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:11 .

[jamesp81]

I didn't really want to yell at Joker. At worst, I would've liked a tired and beaten response. Something that shows Shepard is just exhausted and unhappy at being beaten, but without being an ass.

[jamesp81]

SwobyJ wrote...

"There should have been another dialogue option where Shepard doesn't lash out at Joker, but that option also shouldn't be cheerful when the backdrop is the protagonist being faced with defeat and annihilation. "

Possibly agreed.

I think he should have been upset either way, but the upper choice should have masked it more, and tried to deflect. Not with humor back to Joker, but a "Heh.. yeah... I suppose" and being more deep in thought than angry.

A simple line like "Just...not now, Joker.  I'll be in my quarters if anyone needs me."  That would've been nice to have.

[Sundance31us]

StreetMagic wrote...

I wonder what kind of outcry there would have been if they stuck with their original plan, where Liara can die at Thessia. Goddamn, this playerbase needs to be coddled far too much.

The leaked script had an alternative outcome...not on Thessia. At least the reaction from the other squad mates seemed to indicate that something could happen on the Normandy if Shepard didn't intercede.

[Barquiel]

That was Kelly. She committed suicide with a cyanide capsule, iirc.

[Sundance31us]

StreetMagic wrote...

That's a different situation. There was an older script where Liara would commit suicide after Thessia if you didn't console her. I have no idea why they took it out. I suspect because most Liara fans are like that dude Artifex in this thread. They'd just lose their sh*t if she was treated like any character. Not worth the trouble.

OR it was the opposite...

If Liara committed suicide and the only reactions available for Shepard were those of a friend or lover I suspect the anti-Liara crowd would have raised holy hell.

[spirosz]

Not me, I actually laughed and agreed with his joke. That is another reason I hated certain auto dialogue moments, out of character again.

[von uber]

It takes a special someone to laugh at millions getting killed. Why didn't he crack the same gag after palaven or earth, or for example if the quarians are wiped out. Surely they would be hilarious moments also.

[DeinonSlayer]

@CrutchCricket
Yeah, that line kills me. "In case you haven't noticed, Joker, we just lost a few million people. This isn't the time!"

This coming from the guy who potentially made it happen before, multiple times. Shepard can be RP'd as not giving a damn about the batarians in the Aratoht system. You can shoot Mordin in the back, lie to Wrex about it, kill Wrex, and lie to C-Sec about why he attacked you. You can arrange for seventeen million people to be butchered by robots and spit on their grave afterwards (there's a dialogue option with Joker "they were stupid" in response to him asking why they didn't stop shooting) or, alternately, empty a clip into Legion and deny his/their status as living beings. Yet this Shepard gets upset about? I've said it before, but it bears repeating: this is the only in-game genocide Shepard doesn't instigate. If you had Wrex on board or somehow managed to catch Tali after choosing to kill off her species, I can only imagine how they'd react to Shepard blubbering about this.

Shepard acts like it was his job to save Thessia ("Thessia fell, and that's on me"). The job was to get in, grab the data and get out - driving the Reapers off the planet is so far out of scope it isn't even funny.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:40 .

[SlottsMachine]

Shepard was mad the Reapers had one upped him this time. Joker pointing it out was douche move.

[Barquiel]

StreetMagic wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

That was Kelly. She committed suicide with a cyanide capsule, iirc.

That's a different situation. There was an older script where Liara would commit suicide after Thessia if you didn't console her. I have no idea why they took it out. I suspect because most Liara fans are like that dude Artifex in this thread. They'd just lose their sh*t if she was treated like any character. Not worth the trouble.

There were three leaked scripts...one very early draft, some middle thing and the 99% complete one. Javik and the Virmire standoff were in the earliest script, with Javik's role going from being integral to the plot to DLC friendly unimportance, and the Virmire 2.0 thing being dropped entirely by the second script. But I don't remember Liara commiting suicide in it, only the Kelly thing (Liara's reaction is natural, but suicide would be rather ooc. The Asari are still fighting and not wiped out like the Quarians...there are still billions left).

Modifié par Barquiel, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:35 .

[Sundance31us]

StreetMagic wrote...

I'd look it up, but honestly, I don't want to bother with it. You can forget I even brought it up. It's not important. The underlying principle behind some of the leaks is all that matters. For some reason, they didn't view her any differently than Tali, Ash/Kaidan, Wrex, Jack, Miranda.. and then suddenly they did. I have my own reasons why (what I said earlier about the fanbase.. but just to be fair, I don't think you're like Artifex. You've always been fair minded).

If it's the same one I read was taken down about within a few weeks.

Edit: Since I've been quoted I just cross out the mistake.

Modifié par Sundance31us, 31 janvier 2014 - 11:18 .

[von uber]

I think Liara is the one constant character throughout the series who lives and is always recruited so as to provide continuity for the writers (until the final section) throughout the trilogy. A default 'if x is dead use her'.
One character has to be (save a hell of a lot more dialogue being recorded) so they chose her - Garrus could be dead, as could Tali due to either not being recruited in ME1 or dead in ME2.

[spirosz]

von uber wrote...

I think Liara is the one constant character throughout the series who lives and is always recruited so as to provide continuity for the writers (until the final section) throughout the trilogy. A default 'if x is dead use her'.
One character has to be (save a hell of a lot more dialogue being recorded) so they chose her - Garrus could be dead, as could Tali due to either not being recruited in ME1 or dead in ME2.

That is fair, but at the same time, a lot of what she's done throughout the series, could of been achieved without her or with someone else and being done better.  

[Steelcan]

*looks at thread*

Maybe after a nap or something.....