323 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

besides the asari people dying and the noble sacrifice of the asari squad to let shepard into the temple. shepard losing to kai leng. hmm..

Don't know what you're trying to say, but sacrifices like Mordin and Legion are far more poignant than nameless asari.

I'll bet femShep Thanemancers didn't shed a tear when Leng chopped him up, but blue NPCs dying, oh the humanity!

but then again.. the hate for liara is to strong for stealing soo much air time that all asari even the women and children deserve to die the most horrible death possible.

Nah, you got it backwards, friend. Most people I've seen who romance Liara think all asari **** gold and criticizing them is like insulting their mother. And now the game itself does the same thing. It also happens with Tali and the quarians but that's not as prevalant these days.

[Artifex_Imperius]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Don't know what you're trying to say, but sacrifices like Mordin and Legion are far more poignant than nameless asari.

I'll bet femShep Thanemancers didn't shed a tear when Leng chopped him up, but blue NPCs dying, oh the humanity!

"than nameless asari" that is what im talking about. as the sounds and voice playing in the back ground mean nothing. she did have a name and she told you. i think that was the whole point of that scene. and to just meh it..
sacrifice meh? you have to put yourself really in the game to feel the intensity other wise its just meh?

the femshep thanmancer. glad you pointed that out. coz yeah they're were alot of screams on the forums about that even death threats. ?didnt shed a tear.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 30 janvier 2014 - 06:45 .

[TuringPoint]

He did deserve it, but I don't think he meant anything by it. I didn't feel like the "yelling" was too much. He responded to the yelling respectfully. It's all good.

[CrutchCricket]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...
"than nameless asari" that is what im talking about. as the sounds and voice playing in the back ground mean nothing. she did have a name and she told you. i think that was the whole point of that scene. and to just meh it..
sacrifice meh? you have to put yourself really in the game to feel the intensity other wise its just meh?

I have no idea what you're talking about. If I could understand you I'd ask you to explain why a random asari Shepard just met should have more of an impact than the people who fought (and then died) at his side for months.

the femshep thanmancer. glad you pointed that out. coz yeah they're were alot of screams on the forums about that even death threats. ?didnt shed a tear.

A fictional character posted on the forum?

I'm talking about Shepard's reactions in game. Try to keep up.

[Artifex_Imperius]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I have no idea what you're talking about. If I could understand you I'd ask you to explain why a random asari Shepard just met should have more of an impact than the people who fought (and then died) at his side for months.

I'm talking about Shepard's reactions in game. Try to keep up.

"random asari" continuing to not name the fallen? in denial that she help shepard? in doing so sacrificing her life. a task that shepard demanded of her? [either that or are we playing mind canon and shepard did not reciece any help at all] remembering tarquin, victus son? that atmosphere?

"more of an impact"? or just an "impact", im not suggesting more or greater but equal or atleast.? are saying shepard feels nothings for the dead and dying and the sacrifice people make.

those commandoes that died given respect? her name btw is lt. kurin not random asari? 

yet your suggesting on the other hand ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT. people dying for the mission has an impact. the scene depicted impact. the radio transmission in the end depicted alot of impact.

that anger felt when killing kai leng was that?. the solem atmosphere at the hospital? 

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 30 janvier 2014 - 07:44 .

[Barquiel]

How do people find such old threads? Well, Joker still deserved it (and there was still not enough shouting in my opinion). And for all those lamenting the apparent loss of player choice, that's still present. You can choose whether to reconcile with him or not. You can't really tell me that "I appreciate the thought, Joker. But I'm fine!" is the same as "When I want a damned pep-talk, I'll ask for one. Otherwise, you're my pilot, not my therapist. Is that clear?” The tone is completely different, Jokers reaction is completely different and the choice affects your last conversations with him before returning to Earth...and that offers more roleplaying options than ever before with him (or most other main characters in the game). The point of the scene is to have the link to the Tiptree conversation that serves to highlight Joker's emotional connection to the war. That wouldn't have worked if Shepard had the option to laugh because it would go against the tone of the scene (and made them both unlikeable).

[themikefest]

It's interesting that we can yell at Joker, but you can't say anything to the Asari councillor or yell at the Asari squadmate for yelling at Javik for no reason. I guess the Asari are "special" where they can do no wrong.

Modifié par themikefest, 30 janvier 2014 - 01:06 .

[Derpy]

Asari are spwesial and u cant hurt ther feelings. I wanted to yell at all the dumb leaders for doing stupid things like primarch victus and admirals but people would rather yell at joker because he says a funny joke that I completely agree with...

[wright1978]

The only thing that make that Joker scene more standout is that for the rest of the game when they want to ignore your Shep and replace him/her with the awful new Auto idiot Shep they just go with flowing cutscenes and autodialogue. In this instance they go with a pretense of a dialogue wheel but force flying off the handle.

[eyezonlyii]

I just think of it as an explosion from how my Shepard really felt about Joker since the beginning of ME2. He got me spaced, and never apologized, and then right after a council world is attacked, and a mission is failed, he wants to make a joke. Whether or not it was true isn't the point, the point is wrong place, wrong time.

[CronoDragoon]

Well the point of the scene isn't Joker's joke but rather to bring up Shepard's stress levels. That doesn't work if Shepard just laughs it off.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Again, I thought he deserved it. The scene was so badly written. Who the hell wrote that scene to begin with. It wasn't like Shepard could have saved Thessia. lol. It wasn't like the Asari could have saved Thessia. Hell the Alliance couldn't save Earth either, could they?

Cerberus just got the VI that had the information on the Catalyst from Shepard, and this could have cost the war. Joker is making jokes about the Asari losing their world. Talk about a stupid scene. The commandos were fighting their asses off. Not a lot you can do when you're six feet tall and your enemy is bigger than a sky scraper. They bought Shepard time to get to the temple, and still Cerberus somehow managed to get the information about the beacon and the catalyst and got there first.

Did he make jokes about the Turians losing theirs? No. And they did despite Krogan help. How about the Elcor? No.

[themikefest]

Would those commandos, that bought Shepard time, be alive if the artifact was revealed earlier?

[Karlone123]

I'd tell him to direct that joke to Liara and see if she finds it too soon.

[Redbelle]

But...... It's funny!.......

Because IT'S TRUE!!!

[fhs33721]

It has been a while since I last played the game but if I remember correctly the commados were about to retreat from the heavily attacked area, before Shepard convinced them to help her/him. So they may very well have survived without her/his interference.
Instead they sacrificed themselves to buy Shepard time and s/he failed to get the data. Therfore s/he sent the commandos to their deaths for nothing.
I think something like that can shake someone quite a bit. At least a paragon Shep. And lets face it Shepard was obviously written as a paragon Shepard, because even back in ME 1 being Renegade often made little to no sense at all. People just seem to recognize this only in ME3 because they love to hate on the game.
As for the OP, I think Jokers comment was unfunny and delivered at a rather bad time, but I personally wouldn't shout at him because unfunny jokes are his way to deal with things and I don't think he means any of it serious.

[Frybread76]

There should have been paragon, renegade and neutral responses to choose from. Unfortunately, BioWare seems to have removed a lot of neutral dialogue options in ME3.

[RangerSG]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

besides the asari people dying and the noble sacrifice of the asari squad to let shepard into the temple. shepard losing to kai leng. hmm..

Don't know what you're trying to say, but sacrifices like Mordin and Legion are far more poignant than nameless asari.

I'll bet femShep Thanemancers didn't shed a tear when Leng chopped him up, but blue NPCs dying, oh the humanity!

but then again.. the hate for liara is to strong for stealing soo much air time that all asari even the women and children deserve to die the most horrible death possible.

Nah, you got it backwards, friend. Most people I've seen who romance Liara think all asari **** gold and criticizing them is like insulting their mother. And now the game itself does the same thing. It also happens with Tali and the quarians but that's not as prevalant these days.

However, Tali is the butt-end of about a 1000 "Quarian lost their homeworld" jokes. It's not like her race was given special treatment by the writers. We're supposed to empathize with Thessia because it's "The most advanced e-democracy," and Liara box-cover love. To an extent, it worked for me, though I've never loved Liara as much as her fans, nor despised her the way some do.

Still, it doesn't mean nearly as much as when Garrus talks about the largest fireball on burning Palavan being his freaking home. 

That said, it was a tasteless joke, even by Joker's standards. And I've never found it wrong to call him out for it. Reconcile after? Perhaps. But watching a world burn to ash right after you get gut-punched by the enemy isn't the 'best' time for baiting humor.

And I've never seen ME3 as having more 'auto-dialogue' than the other installments. Some of it is just more obviously railroading than previously. 

[Redbelle]

RangerSG wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

besides the asari people dying and the noble sacrifice of the asari squad to let shepard into the temple. shepard losing to kai leng. hmm..

Don't know what you're trying to say, but sacrifices like Mordin and Legion are far more poignant than nameless asari.

I'll bet femShep Thanemancers didn't shed a tear when Leng chopped him up, but blue NPCs dying, oh the humanity!

but then again.. the hate for liara is to strong for stealing soo much air time that all asari even the women and children deserve to die the most horrible death possible.

Nah, you got it backwards, friend. Most people I've seen who romance Liara think all asari **** gold and criticizing them is like insulting their mother. And now the game itself does the same thing. It also happens with Tali and the quarians but that's not as prevalant these days.

However, Tali is the butt-end of about a 1000 "Quarian lost their homeworld" jokes. It's not like her race was given special treatment by the writers. We're supposed to empathize with Thessia because it's "The most advanced e-democracy," and Liara box-cover love. To an extent, it worked for me, though I've never loved Liara as much as her fans, nor despised her the way some do.

Still, it doesn't mean nearly as much as when Garrus talks about the largest fireball on burning Palavan being his freaking home. 

That said, it was a tasteless joke, even by Joker's standards. And I've never found it wrong to call him out for it. Reconcile after? Perhaps. But watching a world burn to ash right after you get gut-punched by the enemy isn't the 'best' time for baiting humor.

And I've never seen ME3 as having more 'auto-dialogue' than the other installments. Some of it is just more obviously railroading than previously. 

The problem with Thessia.......

I've got no connection to it. The first time we go their it's in the same shape as the rest of the galaxy.

Liara's reaction is kinda what I expect from someone who has not seen their homeworld for a long time being turned to rubble.

Maybe if Thessia had been an important place I'd seen and knew in better times it would have more impact seeing it razed. But Thessia just looks the same as every other major homeworld. Messed up, but with rounder spires.

As for autodialoging. Shepard is more the creators Shepard than my Shepard in ME3. Reponses feel more like lines of dialogue designed to fill in as much detail as possible without the player being given the chance to tease it out of the character on their own terms.

Understandable in actino mode. But in RPG mode I expect the play experience to closely mirror ME1 and 2 i the conversation wheel action.

Because I feel that ME3 was made with a more action mode orientated development it's only natural that the RPG mode got messed up and offered a poor RPG playthrough experience. The RPG mode of ~ME3 plays more like MElite when compared to ME1 and 2.

Modifié par Redbelle, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:47 .

[General TSAR]

I thought Joker deserved brofist.

themikefest wrote...

It's interesting that we can yell at Joker, but you can't say anything to the Asari councillor or yell at the Asari squadmate for yelling at Javik for no reason. I guess the Asari are "special" where they can do no wrong.

Hear, hear!

It's annoying how much crap the blue bimbos can get away with.

[RangerSG]

Redbelle wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

besides the asari people dying and the noble sacrifice of the asari squad to let shepard into the temple. shepard losing to kai leng. hmm..

Don't know what you're trying to say, but sacrifices like Mordin and Legion are far more poignant than nameless asari.

I'll bet femShep Thanemancers didn't shed a tear when Leng chopped him up, but blue NPCs dying, oh the humanity!

but then again.. the hate for liara is to strong for stealing soo much air time that all asari even the women and children deserve to die the most horrible death possible.

Nah, you got it backwards, friend. Most people I've seen who romance Liara think all asari **** gold and criticizing them is like insulting their mother. And now the game itself does the same thing. It also happens with Tali and the quarians but that's not as prevalant these days.

However, Tali is the butt-end of about a 1000 "Quarian lost their homeworld" jokes. It's not like her race was given special treatment by the writers. We're supposed to empathize with Thessia because it's "The most advanced e-democracy," and Liara box-cover love. To an extent, it worked for me, though I've never loved Liara as much as her fans, nor despised her the way some do.

Still, it doesn't mean nearly as much as when Garrus talks about the largest fireball on burning Palavan being his freaking home. 

That said, it was a tasteless joke, even by Joker's standards. And I've never found it wrong to call him out for it. Reconcile after? Perhaps. But watching a world burn to ash right after you get gut-punched by the enemy isn't the 'best' time for baiting humor.

And I've never seen ME3 as having more 'auto-dialogue' than the other installments. Some of it is just more obviously railroading than previously. 

The problem with Thessia.......

I've got no connection to it. The first time we go their it's in the same shape as the rest of the galaxy.

Liara's reaction is kinda what I expect from someone who has not seen their homeworld for a long time being turned to rubble.

Maybe if Thessia had been an important place I'd seen and knew in better times it would have more impact seeing it razed. But Thessia just looks the same as every other major homeworld. Messed up, but with rounder spires.

As for autodialoging. Shepard is more the creators Shepard than my Shepard in ME3. Reponses feel more like lines of dialogue designed to fill in as much detail as possible without the player being given the chance to tease it out of the character on their own terms.

Understandable in actino mode. But in RPG mode I expect the play experience to closely mirror ME1 and 2 i the conversation wheel action.

Because I feel that ME3 was made with a more action mode orientated development it's only natural that the RPG mode got messed up and offered a poor RPG playthrough experience. The RPG mode of ~ME3 plays more like MElite when compared to ME1 and 2.

I agree that not seeing Thessia prior means all our emotional response is tied up with the extent the PC has empathy for Liara. And that's not good enough. OTOH, much the same was done with Palavan and the Turians too. That's part of the danger of Space Operas. So I can't be too upset about not being able to go 'everyplace' in the galaxy ahead of time. Illium in ME2 allowed us at least a glimpse of Asari society and culture. Which is still more than we get for the Turians, unless we want to say "C-Sec is their life."

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

themikefest wrote...

Would those commandos, that bought Shepard time, be alive if the artifact was revealed earlier?

No because it would have been bad writing. Shepard had to miss the artifact because a big obstacle had to be thrown in his/her way. It was essentially defeat by cutscene. 

The thing is that if Shepard had gotten the information earlier and there was no reaper invasion going on, and the Temple was 100% secured, a good writer would have thrown another pile of **** in Shepard's path like having the shuttle shot down over Thessia before reaching the Normandy, and the data taken then. You know, something like that. Good writers throw crap in the paths of the protagonist, especially if the protagonist is the hero of the story. We must make them suffer. Nothing should go according to plan. They should however get a taste of victory every once in a while so they realize how bad the s*** sandwich we constantly feed them tastes, and they need their kick ass moments.

[CrutchCricket]

RangerSG wrote...
However, Tali is the butt-end of about a 1000 "Quarian lost their homeworld" jokes. It's not like her race was given special treatment by the writers. We're supposed to empathize with Thessia because it's "The most advanced e-democracy," and Liara box-cover love. To an extent, it worked for me, though I've never loved Liara as much as her fans, nor despised her the way some do.

No quarians didn't get special treatment from the writers but the relationship of fan-character and fan-race is the same. Most fans of Liara think all asari walk on water and the same is true of Tali fans with regards to quarians. The difference is, asari do get special treatment by the writers, from Liara's reaction onwards. Thessia is a homeworld, just like Earth, just like Palavan, just like Sur'Kesh etc. Why do we stoically take Earth and Palaven getting pounded (despite the artificial plot importance of the former) yet lose our **** at Thessia? I don't buy it.

That said, it was a tasteless joke, even by Joker's standards. And I've never found it wrong to call him out for it. Reconcile after? Perhaps. But watching a world burn to ash right after you get gut-punched by the enemy isn't the 'best' time for baiting humor.

No it was actually quite on the ball. I'd place it in the "truth stings" category. Because the asari could've had stronger defenses if they didn't waste so much time shaking their asses in bars. Taken straight from the matriarch's mouth.

[CrutchCricket]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

themikefest wrote...

Would those commandos, that bought Shepard time, be alive if the artifact was revealed earlier?

No because it would have been bad writing. Shepard had to miss the artifact because a big obstacle had to be thrown in his/her way. It was essentially defeat by cutscene. 

The thing is that if Shepard had gotten the information earlier and there was no reaper invasion going on, and the Temple was 100% secured, a good writer would have thrown another pile of **** in Shepard's path like having the shuttle shot down over Thessia before reaching the Normandy, and the data taken then. You know, something like that. Good writers throw crap in the paths of the protagonist, especially if the protagonist is the hero of the story. We must make them suffer. Nothing should go according to plan. They should however get a taste of victory every once in a while so they realize how bad the s*** sandwich we constantly feed them tastes, and they need their kick ass moments.

What are you, the new David?

[The Heretic of Time]

I read the title as "who thought Joker deserved getting shot at?" in which case I would have agreed.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .