680 réponses à ce sujet

[addiction21]

FreshIstay wrote...

The problem here is that Women take issue with the poses that have been assoiciated with "Sexxy", without realizing that Men have a stereotypical "Sexxy" standard as well, the key difference seem's to be that because the Masculine is not Feminine it does not matter as much.

They get it fine. You're the one not understanding that sterotypical box art of men on the covers is there to appeal to the male power fantasy just as much as if it was a scantily clad big busty women on the cover.
Maybe this will help clear it up some.
http://www.escapistm...19-Gender-Games

Battlebloodmage wrote...

James Robinson said that he will try to find a way to incorporate Obsidian and Jade into the storyline eventually. Theory of the day, Alan's fiance, Sam, survive the explosion and become Obsidian wanting to take revenge on Alan Scott. All of Alan Scott's relationships started out as villains afterall. I still laugh at all the fuss people make over DC's statement that one of their iconic characters will be gay. Reading the outrage from the fanboys were one of my favorite pastime at the time. In the beginning, I thought it was gonna be Wally West.

Wasn't even aware untill I saw this http://www.escapistm...0-The-New-Green
Ya I was allready there so easy to link it. I knew about the moaning of Hiemdale being played by a black actor in the Thor movie. Some things people are way to serious about.

[Kidd]

esper wrote...

Actually I was trying to block from my memories that I even saw something in the chest area of that woman.

Understandable! Sorry, I should've put a trigger warning =)

FreshIstay wrote...

The problem here is that Women take issue with the poses that have been assoiciated with "Sexxy", without realizing that Men have a stereotypical "Sexxy" standard as well, the key difference seem's to be that because the Masculine is not Feminine it does not matter as much.

Most men on cover art do not pose anything similar to that picture of a topless man that was posted earlier in the thread. It happens though, yes.

[WardenWade]

Tootles FTW wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

He did create some of my favorite characters like Deadpool and Shatterstar. I still find his outrage over Shatterstar and Rictor a bit ridiculous though.

Liefeld's contribution to Deadpool and Shatterstar's character creation can be summed up as "pouches, shoulderpads & ponytails".  Joe Kelly, the writer who took over for him from 1997 to the 2000s, is responsible for the DP we know and love.

And as for darling Shatty-buns, Peter David is the best thing to happen to a lot of underused and underrated Marvel characters.

Ah, Poolie   I named my Warden after him. 

IIRC Fabian Nicieza was the other half of Deadpool's genesis and wrote much of his very earliest material as well as the excellent Cable and Deadpool.  Deadpool's first series also benefited from writers like Gail Simone.

Modifié par WardenWade, 18 décembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

So would you have a problem with it if Geralt was a woman? You can essentially get 'rewarded' for sleeping with women in Dragon Age or Mass Effect too since they have achievements. Isn't that the same thing?

I'm not a fan of achievements for accomplishing sex, whether they be in a BioWare game or not.  Though, an achievement for completing a romance arc is NOT the same thing, since there's no requirement for a romance arc to be concluded with sex (or to even contain sex).  Sometimes BioWare games do this, but other times sex is the finishing point.  So yes, I think providing an achievement for that is not a good thing.  The problem with The Witcher is that all that matters is the sex.  It sends a different message, whereas I am not aware of any BioWare games that ding the achievement (or some other type of reward) simply for having sex.


I'd still have a problem with it if Geralt was a woman, though maybe less so simply because it'd be a less typical position.  I'm curious what the reception would have been like had Geralt been gay, with men throwing themselves at him and cards with men in attractive poses.  Heck, even if Geralt had been female with men on cards.

I could obviously see the difference if most women were scantily clad and men were always dressed, but that's not usually the case. Triss is fully clothed in The Witcher.

Triss is not dressed modestly in The Witcher at all.  In fact, (to the game's credit), the absurdly revealing nature of her clothing is actually called out by some characters (I believe Declan does).  She's significantly improved her outfit in the second game (thus far anyways).

[MrCousland99]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

The Witcher ...far superior ..ok that game was one big joke..
And yes I would love to see a woman on the cover this time..

A story driven RPG with challenging gameplay and interesting characters that is based of an award winning novel series...if that's a joke then...it's not very funny.

[Battlebloodmage]

MrCousland99 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

The Witcher ...far superior ..ok that game was one big joke..
And yes I would love to see a woman on the cover this time..

A story driven RPG with challenging gameplay and interesting characters that is based of an award winning novel series...if that's a joke then...it's not very funny.

Isn't that all subjectivity?

[AlexanderCousland]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The thing is, your point has been coming across as though it's irrelevant.  This is what I disagree with.

Take the character traits and make Lara Croft a "typical" hideously ugly person, and I do believe there's less innate appeal based on the imagery we see and how it influences our purchasing decisions.


No one is saying "Men buy the game with sexy women ONLY for that sexy woman."  What people are saying is that men (in general), will have their decisions influenced by the women.  So a good game is still a good game, but if there's a good game with a very homely female on the cover, and a good game with a very attractive female on the cover, I'd be large sums of money on which ones get purchased, even if there isn't a conscious acknowledgement of the process.

Oh and I'd agree with your assesment. The Key difference is that Im applying the same thought process to  both gender's. For example, take a Muscualr Guy on the cover, and a good game with a Skinny Guy on the cover, I'd bet large sums of money on which one get's purchased, even if there isnt a consicious acknowledgement of the process. It's the same thing, but  it seems Male=Irrelevant or in this case Female>Male.

[The Hierophant]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

James Robinson said that he will try to find a way to incorporate Obsidian and Jade into the storyline eventually. Theory of the day, Alan's fiance, Sam, survive the explosion and become Obsidian wanting to take revenge on Alan Scott. All of Alan Scott's relationships started out as villains afterall. I still laugh at all the fuss people make over DC's statement that one of their iconic characters will be gay. Reading the outrage from the fanboys were one of my favorite pastime at the time. In the beginning, I thought it was gonna be Wally West.

Lulz seriously? Mind you i thought it was going to be Jordan. 

But back on topic -  I would like for there to be a muscle slider for the fem pc model needs some as the Warden, lady Hawke, and fem Shep looked like they haven't done a set of push-ups in their life despite the former potentialy being melee fighters, and the later a soldier.
(fem Shep having mod implants is no excuse.)

Modifié par The Hierophant, 18 décembre 2012 - 08:47 .

[berelinde]

MrCousland99 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

The Witcher ...far superior ..ok that game was one big joke..
And yes I would love to see a woman on the cover this time..

A story driven RPG with challenging gameplay and interesting characters that is based of an award winning novel series...if that's a joke then...it's not very funny.

"Story-driven RPG." You're playing a fixed protagonist with a fixed personality. A personality some people find highly offensive.

I've tried to play both the Witcher and the Witcher 2 multiple times, and I just can't get past that. A lot of women are open-minded enough to play the series without becoming enraged at the blatant and unapologetic sexism, but I'm not one of them.

On a technical level, I found the gameplay cumbersome and unintuitive, at least on PC. This probably would have ceased to be an issue if I played long enough to become accustomed to it, but I wasn't enjoying the game enough to justify the investment.

TL;DR: Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

[Allan Schumacher]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Am I the only one who absolutely adore SWTOR's cover art?



Definitely one of the better ones I've seen, even though it's yet another "good-looking good girl and deformed-looking bad guy" kind of MMO cover in the back there.

TOR's also matches the general idea that all the Star Wars movie posters also have.  I do like the box art.

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The thing is, your point has been coming across as though it's irrelevant.  This is what I disagree with.

Take the character traits and make Lara Croft a "typical" hideously ugly person, and I do believe there's less innate appeal based on the imagery we see and how it influences our purchasing decisions.


No one is saying "Men buy the game with sexy women ONLY for that sexy woman."  What people are saying is that men (in general), will have their decisions influenced by the women.  So a good game is still a good game, but if there's a good game with a very homely female on the cover, and a good game with a very attractive female on the cover, I'd be large sums of money on which ones get purchased, even if there isn't a conscious acknowledgement of the process.

Oh and I'd agree with your assesment. The Key difference is that Im applying the same thought process to  both gender's. For example, take a Muscualr Guy on the cover, and a good game with a Skinny Guy on the cover, I'd bet large sums of money on which one get's purchased, even if there isnt a consicious acknowledgement of the process. It's the same thing, but  it seems Male=Irrelevant or in this case Female>Male.

I did a study on mate selection, and females generally find skinnier guys more attractive than muscular, just saying. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Men on the cover have poses that indicate their alpha male position while females usually are in very provocative poses. The guy they see in the cover also appeals to the male audience since it usually reflects the kind of appearance the male audience strive to be, muscular and dominance. I doubt females strive to dress in skimpy clothes in provocative poses unless they aspire to stand on the street everyday at 1 in the morning.

[Battlebloodmage]

The Hierophant wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

James Robinson said that he will try to find a way to incorporate Obsidian and Jade into the storyline eventually. Theory of the day, Alan's fiance, Sam, survive the explosion and become Obsidian wanting to take revenge on Alan Scott. All of Alan Scott's relationships started out as villains afterall. I still laugh at all the fuss people make over DC's statement that one of their iconic characters will be gay. Reading the outrage from the fanboys were one of my favorite pastime at the time. In the beginning, I thought it was gonna be Wally West.

Lulz seriously? Mind you i thought it was going to be Jordan. 

But back on topic -  I would like for there to be a muscle slider for the fem pc model needs some as the Warden, lady Hawke, and fem Shep looked like they haven't done a set of push-ups in their life despite the former potentialy being melee fighters, and the later a soldier.
(fem Shep having mod implants is no excuse.)

Hal Jordan? You thought DC has enough balls to make one of the leads on Justice League gay? 

Wally West is understandable since he hasn't appeared yet and Barry is the (old) new Flash.

[esper]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The thing is, your point has been coming across as though it's irrelevant.  This is what I disagree with.

Take the character traits and make Lara Croft a "typical" hideously ugly person, and I do believe there's less innate appeal based on the imagery we see and how it influences our purchasing decisions.


No one is saying "Men buy the game with sexy women ONLY for that sexy woman."  What people are saying is that men (in general), will have their decisions influenced by the women.  So a good game is still a good game, but if there's a good game with a very homely female on the cover, and a good game with a very attractive female on the cover, I'd be large sums of money on which ones get purchased, even if there isn't a conscious acknowledgement of the process.

Oh and I'd agree with your assesment. The Key difference is that Im applying the same thought process to  both gender's. For example, take a Muscualr Guy on the cover, and a good game with a Skinny Guy on the cover, I'd bet large sums of money on which one get's purchased, even if there isnt a consicious acknowledgement of the process. It's the same thing, but  it seems Male=Irrelevant or in this case Female>Male.

I did a study on mate selection, and females generally find skinnier guys more attractive than muscular, just saying. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Men on the cover have poses that indicate their alpha male position while females usually are in very provocative poses. The guy they see in the cover also appeals to the male audience since it usually reflects the kind of appearance the male audience strive to be, muscular and dominance. I doubt females strive to dress in skimpy clothes in provocative poses unless they aspire to stand on the street everyday at 1 in the morning.

Escpiacally not since (as pointed out many, many times) a good number of those poses are not even doable.

[Blue Gloves]

FreshIstay wrote...


Oh and I'd agree with your assesment. The Key difference is that Im applying the same thought process to  both gender's. For example, take a Muscualr Guy on the cover, and a good game with a Skinny Guy on the cover, I'd bet large sums of money on which one get's purchased, even if there isnt a consicious acknowledgement of the process. It's the same thing, but  it seems Male=Irrelevant or in this case Female>Male.

i don't understand why you think that everybody's 'okay' with the male standards.  I haven't noticed anyone saying "We do't care if men get oversexualized, screw da bums!'  As a matter of fact, most posters make it clear that standards on both sides need to change.  This thread simply pointed out the gross inequality in terms of male/female target audience and advertising.  No one, or at least no one worth listening to is saying "We hate the men! They've had it easy, and we want them to suffer and have women on top!"  What is it that's making you so defensive?  Do you feel that by suggesting we are under and unfairly represented that women wish to take something away from men in general, or perhaps from you, personally?  I'm asking this in honest confusion and a desire to understand where you are coming from.  You have said that women always get their way, and implied in several posts that our goal is to attain equality by demasculinating men and making them powerless.  Which poster here has made you feel that this is the goal of the thread, or of feminism in general?  Seriously, let me know and I'll sic Dr Trask on them.

[The Hierophant]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Lulz seriously? Mind you i thought it was going to be Jordan. 

But back on topic -  I would like for there to be a muscle slider for the fem pc model needs some as the Warden, lady Hawke, and fem Shep looked like they haven't done a set of push-ups in their life despite the former potentialy being melee fighters, and the later a soldier.
(fem Shep having mod implants is no excuse.)

Hal Jordan? You thought DC has enough balls to make one of the leads on Justice League gay? 

Wally West is understandable since he hasn't appeared yet and Barry is the (old) new Flash.

If  DC choose Jordan they would've probably caved in a week after the reveal,  but the majority of my friends thought it was going to be West too.

[AlexanderCousland]

addiction21 wrote...

They get it fine. You're the one not understanding that sterotypical box art of men on the covers is there to appeal to the male power fantasy just as much as if it was a scantily clad big busty women on the cover.
Maybe this will help clear it up some.
http://www.escapistm...19-Gender-Games

Im under the Impression that video game's appeal to everyone,  Not some "Male Power Fantasy", I never buy a game to satisfy my need for power as a male, assuming that I even have one, nor do I think  Women validate any power fantasy with their "sexxiness" on box art.

If Women are needed to validate a Male's "power fantasy" , then that Male isnt even actually empowered, he is dependent upon the "Hot Girl" to validate his power.  I, as a male, do not need the big titted curvacious women to validate any "power fantasy" I may or may not have. In fact, I prefer to level my stats and Kill bosses like any other gamer. The Issue is Women dont want their sexiness defined by a Male, which is understandable but  what need's  to be understood is that Women themselve's have a sexxi standard for male's as well, We certainly haven't created our own sexxiness.   It seem's your suggesting that there should be more "Female Power" fantasy's. I assure you there are alot of them  that you may not pick up on sub-conciously., and having representation for them is something that I support.  However, I wont eat tomatoes and call them apple's.  

[Battlebloodmage]

The Hierophant wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Lulz seriously? Mind you i thought it was going to be Jordan. 

But back on topic -  I would like for there to be a muscle slider for the fem pc model needs some as the Warden, lady Hawke, and fem Shep looked like they haven't done a set of push-ups in their life despite the former potentialy being melee fighters, and the later a soldier.
(fem Shep having mod implants is no excuse.)

Hal Jordan? You thought DC has enough balls to make one of the leads on Justice League gay? 

Wally West is understandable since he hasn't appeared yet and Barry is the (old) new Flash.

If  DC choose Jordan they would've probably caved in a week after the reveal,  but the majority of my friends thought it was going to be West too.

Cave in like what? He drinks some kinds of potions that make him straight again? I was actually hoping for Wally West because Alan Scott is from a different universe. If the reception is poor, they could magically say that Alan Scott on Earth-one is straight. Since Earth-2 is one of the highest selling series from DC, I don't think they will change it. I probably should be glad that it's not Guy Gardner though; there was so much buzz surrounding him being outed. I can't stand him and his attitude.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 18 décembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[Lazengan]

I want a trap/tranny to be on the cover of a video game box

bioware pls

Modifié par Lazengan, 18 décembre 2012 - 09:24 .

[Blue Gloves]

Lazengan wrote...

I want a trap/tranny to be on the cover of a video game box

bioware pls

i feel ignorant, but what is a trap?

[Battlebloodmage]

Blue Gloves wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

I want a trap/tranny to be on the cover of a video game box

bioware pls

i feel ignorant, but what is a trap?

A boy who looks like a girl but has a penis.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 18 décembre 2012 - 09:32 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Blue Gloves wrote...

i don't understand why you think that everybody's 'okay' with the male standards.  I haven't noticed anyone saying "We do't care if men get oversexualized, screw da bums!'  As a matter of fact, most posters make it clear that standards on both sides need to change.  This thread simply pointed out the gross inequality in terms of male/female target audience and advertising.  No one, or at least no one worth listening to is saying "We hate the men! They've had it easy, and we want them to suffer and have women on top!"  What is it that's making you so defensive?  Do you feel that by suggesting we are under and unfairly represented that women wish to take something away from men in general, or perhaps from you, personally?  I'm asking this in honest confusion and a desire to understand where you are coming from.  You have said that women always get their way, and implied in several posts that our goal is to attain equality by demasculinating men and making them powerless.  Which poster here has made you feel that this is the goal of the thread, or of feminism in general?  Seriously, let me know and I'll sic Dr Trask on them.

 

Do you realize that you just stated a list of thing's that YOU FEEL i believe, and then created statment's for me in the form of a question?....I sincereley hope you realize that.

My only purpose is to point out that Men suffer from the same representation issues as Women do and that those issues are EQUAL, one is not greater then the other.  Essentially, "We are all in this together".

[Atalanta]

@Lazengan
@Battlebloodmage
I hope you guys know that it's considered a derogatory slur? Ugh, I am so done with this thread.  

Modifié par Atalanta, 18 décembre 2012 - 09:43 .

[Blue Gloves]

I'm sorry, do you not remmeber writing this:

FreshIstay wrote...


  it seems Male=Irrelevant or in this case Female>Male.

Or this?

FreshIstay wrote...

 In fact, the only area's of western
media that females havent dominated yet are Video Games & Sport's
and that will change to. If it's one thing I've learned in my years,
women always get their way.

These very clearly indicate that you feel that women wish to take something away from men in general, and desire to dominate every last bastion of male fortitude.

Perhaps I was meant to understand that you don't feel strongly about what you imply in your posts?

In any event, I have attempted to point out in several ways that what you are advocating is not, in fact, the type of equality that women (actually, scratch that, since I cannot claim to speak for all women) I am after, and that many of your comments seem defensive and are offensive.  I've attempted to understand where you're coming from, but in every case you've replied with defensive brush offs- so thanks for the debate, and sorry I've wasted your time, but I think I'm done conversing with you now.

[_- Songlian -]

While I wouldn't mind a female on the cover of DA3, I'm also very much aware it would not sell the game as much as a male - let's not kid ourselves.

I partially disagree with the OP's statement. I think his "girlie game" impression comes from DA series focusing a great deal on party interaction and romance - essentially feminine preoccupations - whereas The Witcher (his given example) does these things in a much smaller degree. IMO, neither of the approaches are lacking, so it's all good.

Wow, I suddenly feel off-topic for staying on-topic.