680 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr Deathbot]

Modifié par Mr Deathbot, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[Xilizhra]

Im talking about character's with Poltical Status or Character's that are Renowned, not some Rebel Radical Abomination Mage Warden who cannot be influenced at all, That dude is like Osama to me.

Well, I see him with sufficient renown.

As for me, I don't really play with multiplayer using a microphone, because I don't own one, but I use PC exclusively as it is. And anyone who does call me out on my gender can kindly go to hell.

[Mr Deathbot]

Modifié par Mr Deathbot, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:26 .

[AlexanderCousland]

WHY CANT I EVER WIN??????

This sucks.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:31 .

[Dhiro]

FreshIstay wrote...

WHY CANT I EVER WIN??????

This sucks.

Maybe you should take a deep breath and think very hard on why people are disagreeing with you. Or not. I don't know!

[Kidd]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Oh were they constantly getting free stuff? Yeah I hate it when that happens when I pretend to be a woman in an MMO.

You do realise why the free stuff is getting handed out, right? There is an ulterior motive, however misguided it may be. It's not just a little bit creepy to have somebody whose face or name you don't even know try to woo you by giving you virtual items when you're just trying to play a game.

If a woman (or man posing as a woman for that matter) sets herself up in a situation like this on purpose, it becomes a patriarchal bargain, and that's nothing I'd like to dabble in for even a second since I'm a feminist.

Moreover your trying to show how a woman is privileged when she receives an item for free has to do with game mechanics, and I'd argue the problems women hide from when posing as men online are social issues not related to the game's mechanics at all.

Suddenly I'm reminded of a girl who joined our local LAN parties years ago. It's a similar story, where a man gives a woman an advantage in a game due to him being attracted to her, only it's more obvious how hurtful it is since it happened IRL.

This guy apparently thought the newcomer was cute, so he started giving away key information to her in private messages during a StarCraft team match. When she asked him why he was doing that, he apparently mentioned some pretty inappropriate desires of his. So not only was her gaming experience ruined by her getting access to information that she shouldn't have, she was put in a socially difficult situation afterwards as well. After the game, it would be assumed she'd be joining him (and us) for pizza after all.

She didn't feel comfortable playing there so she never came back and I didn't learn why until later.

So what brought this on? She was female. Nothing else to it. I suppose I was lucky I was not attractive enough to get this guy's attention, myself.

[AlexanderCousland]

Dhiro wrote...


Maybe you should take a deep breath and think very hard on why people are disagreeing with you. Or not. I don't know!

  anymore random posters wanna have a go at me?

[Gazardiel]

FreshIstay wrote...
 
He gave you free loot?...dammitt I need to change my avatar.

It wasn't free.  Why do men give "free" stuff to women? Why was he unwilling to do a fair trade for it, but then to give it to me? 

I understand the Frustration, really, you'll have to forgive us for being naturally inclined to spread our seed and the various form's of ignorance that Instinct may carry.

See, not everyone believes this.  You are of course free to believe it, but it does mean that it will be hard to have a conversation that challenges those assumptions and that those assumptions will make it harder to understand certain perspectives. 

I understand the Point of what your saying.. I really do. Perhap's Im confused because, I, myself dont not see female's as abnormal and dont know any men that say stupid stuff on the basis of gender, at least with harmful intent. I also beleive while Female's are not considered physically stronger, they poses a host of qualities that trump Male's in general.

 

Part of the social/cultural problem is that what men think is well-intended can be very offensive to women (and sometimes vice-versa - friendzoning, for example). And if you have no problem identifying with a character in-game who happens to be female, good on you; you're well ahead of the curve.

What on earth are you doing on FatUglyor****ty.com. ? you must be trying to make yourself angry. The name of the site itself screams immature.  I understand what your getting at though, I will admitt that there is some shame involved in losing to a female, I think that has something to do with the natural difference in physicality between male's and female's in our species,  female's are weaker so I cannot lose to them In any shape form or fashion. It is true.

I am confirming to myself why I don't want to do online console gaming.  Have you even looked at the site?  The point of the title is that those are three of the most common insults levelled at female players that all attack them on a gender identity level (and which are rarely used as insults to guys), and instead of staying quiet about it, the players (not all female, btw) are sharing what's said to them in this forum.  There is a lot of power in speaking up about what bothers you, and unfortunately, there is a tendency to discourage women and other marginalized groups from doing so.

Again with the belief in natural differences... I won't tell you not to believe in them, but that is not the only way to see the world. I also don't see how gaming should have anything to do with purported physical differences - it's about how quickly you think, how well you research strategies/tactics, and a little manual dexterity.

I understand why you feel that In the confines of the game itself our natural role's should not come into play. They do It make's you uncomfrotable, I understand now.

Actually, no.  It's not that the "natural roles" make me uncomfortable.  It's that some people insist that 1) there are natural roles and 2) that they should be applied to how a supposedly "neutral" online space should be managed.    As a former Naval officer, I am no stranger to these ways of thinking and limiting.

Good conversation though.  I'm glad this thread has been kept open so these discussions can happen.

Modifié par Gazardiel, 19 décembre 2012 - 12:44 .

[Kidd]

FreshIstay wrote...

I understand the Frustration, really, you'll have to forgive us for being naturally inclined to spread our seed and the various form's of ignorance that Instinct may carry.

Those are some pretty strong words. They imply a great deal. Are you sure you really mean that somebody's desire to breed is of higher priority than another's well-being? That hurting other people in any form can be excused because sexual instincts?

I don't think you really are of that opinion.

[AlexanderCousland]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

You do realise why the free stuff is getting handed out, right? There is an ulterior motive, however misguided it may be. It's not just a little bit creepy to have somebody whose face or name you don't even know try to woo you by giving you virtual items when you're just trying to play a game.

If a woman (or man posing as a woman for that matter) sets herself up in a situation like this on purpose, it becomes a patriarchal bargain, and that's nothing I'd like to dabble in for even a second since I'm a feminist.

Moreover your trying to show how a woman is privileged when she receives an item for free has to do with game mechanics, and I'd argue the problems women hide from when posing as men online are social issues not related to the game's mechanics at all.

Suddenly I'm reminded of a girl who joined our local LAN parties years ago. It's a similar story, where a man gives a woman an advantage in a game due to him being attracted to her, only it's more obvious how hurtful it is since it happened IRL.

This guy apparently thought the newcomer was cute, so he started giving away key information to her in private messages during a StarCraft team match. When she asked him why he was doing that, he apparently mentioned some pretty inappropriate desires of his. So not only was her gaming experience ruined by her getting access to information that she shouldn't have, she was put in a socially difficult situation afterwards as well. After the game, it would be assumed she'd be joining him (and us) for pizza after all.

She didn't feel comfortable playing there so she never came back and I didn't learn why until later.

So what brought this on? She was female. Nothing else to it. I suppose I was lucky I was not attractive enough to get this guy's attention, myself.

Well excuse me for not being able to sympathize with the unbearable curse of constantly receiving attention from the opposite sex.

[AlexanderCousland]

FreshIstay wrote...

I understand the Frustration, really, you'll have to forgive us for being naturally inclined to spread our seed and the various form's of ignorance that Instinct may carry.

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
Those are some pretty strong words. They imply a great deal. Are you sure you really mean that somebody's desire to breed is of higher priority than another's well-being? That hurting other people in any form can be excused because sexual instincts?

I don't think you really are of that opinion.

NO! I dont mean a desire to breed is of higher priority thant another's well being, and NO! I dont mean hurting people can be excused because of sexual instinct.


WHAT I MEAN... Male's all have a natural instinct to breed (female's as well) and some of us are more IGNORANT then other's, check the part i bolded in my orginial statement.

[esper]

FreshIstay wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

I understand the Frustration, really, you'll have to forgive us for being naturally inclined to spread our seed and the various form's of ignorance that Instinct may carry.

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
Those are some pretty strong words. They imply a great deal. Are you sure you really mean that somebody's desire to breed is of higher priority than another's well-being? That hurting other people in any form can be excused because sexual instincts?

I don't think you really are of that opinion.

NO! I dont mean a desire to breed is of higher priority thant another's well being, and NO! I dont mean hurting people can be excused because of sexual instinct.


WHAT I MEAN... Male's all have a natural instinct to breed (female's as well) and some of us are more IGNORANT then other's, check the part i bolded in my orginial statement.

That is not an excuse.

[esper]

FreshIstay wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

You do realise why the free stuff is getting handed out, right? There is an ulterior motive, however misguided it may be. It's not just a little bit creepy to have somebody whose face or name you don't even know try to woo you by giving you virtual items when you're just trying to play a game.

If a woman (or man posing as a woman for that matter) sets herself up in a situation like this on purpose, it becomes a patriarchal bargain, and that's nothing I'd like to dabble in for even a second since I'm a feminist.

Moreover your trying to show how a woman is privileged when she receives an item for free has to do with game mechanics, and I'd argue the problems women hide from when posing as men online are social issues not related to the game's mechanics at all.

Suddenly I'm reminded of a girl who joined our local LAN parties years ago. It's a similar story, where a man gives a woman an advantage in a game due to him being attracted to her, only it's more obvious how hurtful it is since it happened IRL.

This guy apparently thought the newcomer was cute, so he started giving away key information to her in private messages during a StarCraft team match. When she asked him why he was doing that, he apparently mentioned some pretty inappropriate desires of his. So not only was her gaming experience ruined by her getting access to information that she shouldn't have, she was put in a socially difficult situation afterwards as well. After the game, it would be assumed she'd be joining him (and us) for pizza after all.

She didn't feel comfortable playing there so she never came back and I didn't learn why until later.

So what brought this on? She was female. Nothing else to it. I suppose I was lucky I was not attractive enough to get this guy's attention, myself.

Well excuse me for not being able to sympathize with the unbearable curse of constantly receiving attention from the opposite sex.

Nothing in life is for free. Often when men give you as a woman a gift, the fact is implicit that we should be grateful for it (even if we didn't want the gift) and that gratefullness eventually means we have to put out. The example above is particulary bad, because not just was the message: 'You are not worth trading with'. The gift came off as an try get into the woman's pants or an 'oh I better help this poor little girl', neither which is a nice thing to be on the recieving end off.

Having constant attention from the other sex is a curse. Espicially when you are in a neutral area where you do not want the attentention but wants to enjoy the game.

Modifié par esper, 19 décembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[Kidd]

FreshIstay wrote...

Well excuse me for not being able to sympathize with the unbearable curse of constantly receiving attention from the opposite sex.

I can imagine that it may feel a bit difficult to empathise with at face value, yes. Similarly I can readily admit I'm not the best with sympathy when, say, somebody who makes four-five times the amount of money I do is moping cause they didn't get that bonus they were trying for. I don't have a job, so to me it feels like such a luxurious problem. They're making a lot of money, and they didn't manage to make even more than a lot of money? I'm naturally inclined to compare this to my student loans and feel they're whiners.

But I must still remember that they were working very hard for something and failed. I know that feeling, cause Maker knows I've failed with a lot of things. I wouldn't still be studying had I not failed a lot of things. So when I look at it from that perspective, I can sympathise and support them as hundreds of hours of hard labour didn't pay off. Yup, that hurts for sure.

It's important to not be ruled by jealousy =)

(this post seemingly compares how often I get hit on to the bank account of a person who makes four-five times my income. wow, I must be one heck of a lot hotter than I thought ;D)

FreshIstay wrote...

NO! I dont mean a desire to breed is of higher priority thant another's well being, and NO! I dont mean hurting people can be excused because of sexual instinct.


WHAT I MEAN... Male's all have a natural instinct to breed (female's as well) and some of us are more IGNORANT then other's, check the part i bolded in my orginial statement. 

Great ^^ I'm sorry I seem to have upset you and I'm glad we agree =)

esper wrote...

That is not an excuse.

Not for the idiots who think otherwise, no. I think FreshIstay's answer just now showed that he does not think those men are in the right though. At least, that's how I read it.

[AlexanderCousland]

Gazardiel wrote...

Actually, no.  It's not that the "natural roles" make me uncomfortable.  It's that some people insist that 1) there are natural roles and 2) that they should be applied to how a supposedly "neutral" online space should be managed.    As a former Naval officer, I am no stranger to these ways of thinking and limiting.

Good conversation though.  I'm glad this thread has been kept open so these discussions can happen.

I gotta be honest, at this point it just seem's to me that you are unhappy with what society has desginated to be Feminine and are envious of Masculine. That's just my perception of your statment's though and Im not trying to offend you.

Also, If there aren't natural role's than we wouldn't have to slightest idea of what the difference's between gender are would we?

[Kidd]

[EDIT: I should learn from Gazardiel and not push my views of the world onto others.]

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 19 décembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[Commander Kurt]

FreshIstay wrote...

NO! I dont mean a desire to breed is of higher priority thant another's well being, and NO! I dont mean hurting people can be excused because of sexual instinct.


WHAT I MEAN... Male's all have a natural instinct to breed (female's as well) and some of us are more IGNORANT then other's, check the part i bolded in my orginial statement.

I get what you mean. Guys take a chance and don't mean anything bad by it. The intention is to give a complimant, if anything. And you're right, in parts. I try never to take offence when a guy is trying to pick me up, even if I'm really not interested (how is he supposed to know that before he asks). It may be disruptive to my gaming experience, but it's not hurtful. BUT, it's not that simple.

Quite often it's used in a demeaning way. "Baby, you can come *bleeep* my *bleeeep*, huh huh" is NOT a complimant. It's not a pick up, it's a put down. Also, turning a guy down can lead to all sorts of bad stuff, and constantly does, which makes women wary right from the "How you doin'?" part.

Also, you'll win next time. Mr Deathbot was just so darn convincing.

[AlexanderCousland]

esper wrote...

Nothing in life is for free. Often when men give you as a woman a gift, the fact is implicit that we should be grateful for it (even if we didn't want the gift) and that gratefullness eventually means we have to put out. The example above is particulary bad, because not just was the message: 'You are not worth trading with'. The gift came off as an try get into the woman's pants or an 'oh I better help this poor little girl', neither which is a nice thing to be on the recieving end off.

Having constant attention from the other sex is a curse. Espicially when you are in a neutral area where you do not want the attentention but wants to enjoy the game.

A curse? perhap's you would feel differently if you were the one constantly searching for courtship, as opposed to being the one turning courtship down. Perhap's your view might change if you were required to acheive a certain level of Socio-Economic status before you were considered a Viable Suitor, nevermind your ability to  communicate.  

Modifié par FreshIstay, 19 décembre 2012 - 01:27 .

[Kidd]

FreshIstay wrote...

A curse? perhap's you would feel differently if you were the one constantly searching for courtship, as opposed to being the one turning courtship down. Perhap's your view might change if you were re-quired to acheive a certain level of Socio-Economic status before you were considered a Viable Suitor, nevermind your ability to  communicate.  

Look at my post about jealousy above.

[AlexJK]

FreshIstay wrote...

A curse? perhap's you would feel differently if you were the one constantly searching for courtship, as opposed to being the one turning courtship down. Perhap's your view might change if you were required to acheive a certain level of Socio-Economic status before you were considered a Viable Suitor, nevermind your ability to  communicate.  

Is this really your view of gender roles - that men are "constantly searching for courtship" and are required to "achieve a certain level of socio-economic status", whereas women are the ones "turning courtship down"? Or are you just being flippant and trying to make some kind of point?

[Dhiro]

FreshIstay wrote...

esper wrote...

Nothing in life is for free. Often when men give you as a woman a gift, the fact is implicit that we should be grateful for it (even if we didn't want the gift) and that gratefullness eventually means we have to put out. The example above is particulary bad, because not just was the message: 'You are not worth trading with'. The gift came off as an try get into the woman's pants or an 'oh I better help this poor little girl', neither which is a nice thing to be on the recieving end off.

Having constant attention from the other sex is a curse. Espicially when you are in a neutral area where you do not want the attentention but wants to enjoy the game.

A curse? perhap's you would feel differently if you were the one constantly searching for courtship, as opposed to being the one turning courtship down. Perhap's your view might change if you were required to acheive a certain level of Socio-Economic status before you were considered a Viable Suitor, nevermind your ability to  communicate.  

You poor, oppressed heterosexual man. It must be so hard for you.

I'm truly sorry that society treats you like this.

[AlexanderCousland]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Look at my post about jealousy above.

Im not Jealous, Im telling you that the attention that you receive and seem to resent is precious.

Look at it from this persepective, a Human being is offering you a piece of himself because he find's you worthy of his time, now granted, I understand that there are some real sleeze-balls out there, but alot of us mean well. It take's courage and a little bit of skill to romanticaly pursue a woman and all to often Men deal with Rejection and have to pick up and try again until one day he finds a Woman who is willingy to see who he is. Women naturally have Men asking for their time so it's easier for them to hand out rejection without realizing they can hurt someone and really damage confidence, Becuase you View being pursued as a Hassle sometimes you can be insensitive to the person pursuing.