680 réponses à ce sujet

[Blue Gloves]

rapscallioness wrote...

BiffBuffington wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

I like how "not blatantly sexist" = "written for females."

Sigh.

At least thet're not dressing everyone like it's a Frazetta painting.

oh, dear. now i just feel ignorant. i'm gonna have to go google frazetta paintings. ...but wait....do i want to google this? it's not gonna take me to a weird place, or anything?

Don't worry, he's a Comic book/ Book cover/ Movie poster artist from the 50's/60's era.  Think Birdman and so forth.  He's actually reputed to be a major influence on the art in the Legend of Zelda series and the He-Man cartoon.

[thats1evildude]

Basically, nearly all of Frazetta's paintings had one of three things in it:

1) A scantily-clad voluptous woman
2) A scantily-clad very  muscular man
3) Some horrible monster about to devour one of the former

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[rapscallioness]

I love learning new things.

okay, i'm leaving for real now. well, hold on...what's that over there?

[brushyourteeth]

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but men and women aren't really all that different from one another.

The DA team could just, you know, be making the game they want to make and trusting that people will like it. The same way that both men and women like hiking or pancakes. Not all of them will, but maybe gender has a lot less to do with it than you'd think.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[addiction21]

brushyourteeth wrote...

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but men and women aren't really all that different from one another.

The DA team could just, you know, be making the game they want to make and trusting that people will like it. The same way that both men and women like hiking or pancakes. Not all of them will, but maybe gender has a lot less to do with it than you'd think.

No one likes pancakes and I won't believe anyone that says otherwise.

[brushyourteeth]

addiction21 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but men and women aren't really all that different from one another.

The DA team could just, you know, be making the game they want to make and trusting that people will like it. The same way that both men and women like hiking or pancakes. Not all of them will, but maybe gender has a lot less to do with it than you'd think.

No one likes pancakes and I won't believe anyone that says otherwise.

Damn waffleaters.... 

[Steppenwolf]

Somehow when I look at Isabela and Morrigan my first thought isn't "this seems like it was made for girls." Gratuitously sexualized women aren't staples of feminine sensibilities. Now if DA3 features dong-cleavage and dudes that never wear shirts you might have a case.

[Celene II]

I dont think it has to be one for the fangirl but yes I do believe that the cover should have the female protaganist on the cover. Without a strong reoccuring character ala shepard they can put anyone on the cover.

I wouldnt mind them putting the protaganist and say flemeth or some other famous characters from both DAO and DA2.

[Icesong]

Dhiro wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

Default female Shepard in ME3 looked horrible (in the game at least,) which is weird because the default female face in the first two games was great. I think female Shepard suffered from the same thing Ashley Williams did: they tried to doll her up and add sex-appeal and just ended up making her look goofy and out of place.

Edit: Actually collagen-her-up might be a better term. Ashley and female Shepard both look like they got a lot plastic surgery done between ME2 and ME3.

On the other hand I don't have any objections to the way default female Hawke looked so...eh.

There was a

*sigh*

pool where the ME fans got to decide FemShep's default appearence. The one you see in game is the one they chose.

Would have gone differently had people realized how mangled the in-game representation would be.

[Allan Schumacher]

This thread is already somewhat potentially dangerous due to the subject matter.

I'd prefer to keep the discussion to pros/cons of female protagonists in advertising (or even keep it wider for gaming in general), and keep the real world politicking out of it.

[AlexanderCousland]

So is my response the only one that get's deleted? or maybe you could delte all my original, and the response to it..ya know, in the name of equality.

[Swagger7]

rapscallioness wrote...

BiffBuffington wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

I like how "not blatantly sexist" = "written for females."

Sigh.

At least thet're not dressing everyone like it's a Frazetta painting.

oh, dear. now i just feel ignorant. i'm gonna have to go google frazetta paintings. ...but wait....do i want to google this? it's not gonna take me to a weird place, or anything?


edit: wow, Frazetta is a talented artist.

Frazetta's big on equality in his paintings - no one gets any clothes!

[Swagger7]

brushyourteeth wrote...

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but men and women aren't really all that different from one another.

The DA team could just, you know, be making the game they want to make and trusting that people will like it. The same way that both men and women like hiking or pancakes. Not all of them will, but maybe gender has a lot less to do with it than you'd think.

Yay, this^

I'm a straight male, but most of the things about Dragon Age that people point to when they say it's aimed at females are the parts I like.  The Dragon Age games are outstanding examples of how to make an inclusive game.  Sure there's fanservice for staight males, but there's also fanservice for gay males and women both straight and lesbian.  Does it seem like the fanservice is tilted a bit heavily towards straight males?  Sure, but it's still a lot better than most games at equality.

One of the great ways to show how inclusive the games are is to look at the community here.  We seem have a nice representative mix of genders, orientations, and ages.  That's because the games don't cater to one group, unless that group is "People who enjoy cRPGs with great story, great characters, great art and/or fun combat".

End rant. 

If it was a little disjointed then I appologise, for I am very tired.

[Allan Schumacher]

FreshIstay wrote...

So is my response the only one that get's deleted? or maybe you could delte all my original, and the response to it..ya know, in the name of equality.

Because yours was the most recent, yes.  Others are already there, already been read, and so forth.

I'm stopping the tangent.  This isn't about "equality" but stopping the particular tangent from going back and forth.

[d4eaming]

I must be blind to the typical video game cover, because while I have definitely noticed the WAY overused "man with gun half turned and stuff blowing up behind him" trope, I never specifically thought to myself "clearly this is about a man blowing stuff up and possibly rescuing some overly simpering and helpless woman." Granted, as far as gender stereotypes go, I'm somewhere in the middle. I see things somewhat from both perspectives. The Bioshock cover intrigued me, and I found it interesting. The lack of dudely-dude on the cover didn't stop me reading the back of the box to find the synopsis. Some of my games have it and some don't. Deadspace has a disembodied arm; DA:O & Awakenings has a dragon and a kind of buggy bloodstain with people in the background; NWN and expansions just have the game titles, so does Oblivion and X2: The Threat. Deadspace has a set protag, the rest are customisable. Then I have Legacy of Kain which shows the set protags, and Defiance which has Raziel and Kain. The rest of my games follow the trope, set protag displayed, with or without stuff blowing up in the background.

It's actually pretty damning, looking at the game cases, how many are men, and show said men with stuff blowing up. It's just not as obvious as a COD or Halo clone would be.

Granted, I can say for certain that game covers such as COD and Halo help me avoid games I find boring, so maybe the, albeit sexist and overdone, covers aren't necessarily all bad? I am more inclined to pick up a case and read the synopsis if the cover is different than if it's the same ol' regurgitated cover.

[AlexanderCousland]

WoW. I didnt even say anything offensive, but now the assumption will be that I did.
Im called "Old and Bitter" and somehow i get the short end of the stick. Lol. Society man.

It really is about equality when i boils down to it, Women want Women on the cover's of their games, good, why shouldnt they have them?

All Im saying is dont put down men in the process. What's wrong with that? :/

[Steppenwolf]

Icesong wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

Default female Shepard in ME3 looked horrible (in the game at least,) which is weird because the default female face in the first two games was great. I think female Shepard suffered from the same thing Ashley Williams did: they tried to doll her up and add sex-appeal and just ended up making her look goofy and out of place.

Edit: Actually collagen-her-up might be a better term. Ashley and female Shepard both look like they got a lot plastic surgery done between ME2 and ME3.

On the other hand I don't have any objections to the way default female Hawke looked so...eh.

There was a

*sigh*

pool where the ME fans got to decide FemShep's default appearence. The one you see in game is the one they chose.

Would have gone differently had people realized how mangled the in-game representation would be.

The fans voted for a sexy, tough redhead with smouldering eyes. Bioware gave us some sort of fat-headed human-impersonator. Change your background theme to female Shepard to remind yourself that Bioware only cares about Sheploo looking good in-game.

[AlexanderCousland]

You should delete both posts, because the tagent will continue if someone else decides to quote one of us.

[Pauravi]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Not trying to be sexist just curious but for some reason the whole Dragon Age series seems like it is written to appeal more to the female audience, anyone else get this impression?

??
I have no effing clue what you're talking about.

[d4eaming]

FreshIstay wrote...

WoW. I didnt even say anything offensive, but now the assumption will be that I did.
Im called "Old and Bitter" and somehow i get the short end of the stick. Lol. Society man.

It really is about equality when i boils down to it, Women want Women on the cover's of their games, good, why shouldnt they have them?

All Im saying is dont put down men in the process. What's wrong with that? :/

Wild guess, without knowing the context of the deleted post, is that the point is that when you are in a discussion about equality and women, saying "but what about the men", pretty much just like you said, is derailing and ends up in flames. It's never necessary to say "but what about the men/don't forget the men" when in discussion of women's lack of equal treatment. We won't forget about the men, we promise, because society won't let us forget about the men.

Discuss how BW or any other company should make equal covers (or sole covers) to women's tastes, and don't even bring up the men at all.

I feel I am dangerously close to the forbidden zone here, considering the previous demand to stay away, so I will just leave it at that and hope you will take the time to consider why your statement is problematic in itself.

[gosimmons]

Atalanta wrote...

I like how "not blatantly sexist" = "written for females."

Sigh.

Second.

Modifié par gosimmons, 17 décembre 2012 - 07:57 .

[Blank-Slate-Blues]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Somehow when I look at Isabela and Morrigan my first thought isn't "this seems like it was made for girls." Gratuitously sexualized women aren't staples of feminine sensibilities. Now if DA3 features dong-cleavage and dudes that never wear shirts you might have a case.

Off topic: I don't know, gratuitous fanservice aside, I always got the impression that Morrigan and Isabela dressed that way because, as characters (people?), they chose to. If a male character is going to walk around in a man-thong, it should be because he chooses to (within the context of his character).

Anyway, about female/male cover representation, why don't we just have some companions on the cover. That way the protagonist can be let ambigious. And all anybody really cares about is who you get to travel with.

And bang

[d4eaming]

Blank-Slate-Blues wrote...

Anyway, about female/male cover representation, why don't we just have some companions on the cover. That way the protagonist can be let ambigious. And all anybody really cares about is who you get to travel with.

And bang

This is usually my main concern. I'm a terrible person sometimes.

[Steppenwolf]

Blank-Slate-Blues wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Somehow when I look at Isabela and Morrigan my first thought isn't "this seems like it was made for girls." Gratuitously sexualized women aren't staples of feminine sensibilities. Now if DA3 features dong-cleavage and dudes that never wear shirts you might have a case.

Off topic: I don't know, gratuitous fanservice aside, I always got the impression that Morrigan and Isabela dressed that way because, as characters (people?), they chose to. If a male character is going to walk around in a man-thong, it should be because he chooses to (within the context of his character).

Isabela was a sexual being in Origins but she still wore pants. And it's very easy to say "that's who they are" or "that's what the character chooses to wear" but it's Bioware making these choices. I think cleavage, non-stop come-ons and sexual innuendo would have been enough to illustrate that Isabela is comfortable with sexuality/sex. Bioware decided to beat us over the head with it.