51 réponses à ce sujet

[IntoTheDarkness]

He is completely innocent, that's for sure, all the more so because his magic was taught by Jowan and he did not have any knowledge to make a right call when he summoned a demon to help his father

On the other hand, Conner's existance will continue to threaten the redcliff village and endanger lives of many people. You have several options including entrusting your or your companion's life with a blood mage Jowan, but you can't be sure if he will use the life energy he extracted from you or your companion as he promised. As far as you know, he could use the energy to escape, and one of your companion could end up dead with Conner still living.

Would you murder Conner if your warden is inherently righteous?

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 16 décembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

None of my inherently righteous Wardens have, but I can see an inherently righteous argument for it.

Edit: Actually, that's not entirely fair. The first Warden I made this decision with was kind of ruthless, but ultimately had his heart in the right place. He considered the various dangers, and ultimately decided going after Connor was the least of them. The second one I did this with, on the other hand, was kind of evil. It doesn't make offing Connor any less justified, of course, since going after the demon immediately is the safest way, and without metagame knowledge Jowan isn't necessarily trustworthy.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:35 .

[Blazomancer]

The only issue with connor is that he is a child, & it seems cruel to kill a child. No one gave a damn when duncan killed jory.
As for my personal opinion, killing connor is neither justified nor evil. There can be only arguments and opinions, but there is no universal morality scale to come to an absolution.

Probably a mage warden would risk his/her life for connor and allow jowan to perform the ritual in close scrutiny. But if the warden chooses not to risk his/her or any of the companions' life, is it being less righteous? I don't know.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I can see it being justified if the Warden is dead against blood magic (meaning no Jowan doing the ritual) and thinks it's too great of a risk to leave abomination!Connor while s/he runs off to the Circle Tower for help -- help that might not be granted, since it's practically unheard of for mages to be cured of being abominations at that point.

I have a harder time justifying knocking Isolde aside so that the Warden can knife Connor instead of letting her do it, but I suppose you could RP it as "She'd never forgive herself if she killed her own son. It's better this way." if you wanted to.

[Wulfram]

Blood Magic rituals seem risky, and put the mage in question at risk, with no absolute guarantee it will save the boy and the certainty that it will kill Isolde. And the Warden doesn't know everything will be fine if you go fetch the mages.

[ejoslin]

My first playthrough, my warden let Isolde kill Connor. My mage let Jowan do the ritual. I have a real problem justifying going to the circle tower though that ends up being the happy joy solution. It's too dire and immediate a problem to risk leaving, especially if you haven't done the tower yet so all you know is that there are rumors of demons running amok there as well.

[sylvanaerie]

My Surana uses the Tower option as I usually do the tower first on her. Most of the time my wardens go with Jowan's ritual, feeling (without metagaming) that it's the lesser of two evils (kill mom who's lies brought this whole mess on them, or kill the boy she tried so hard to protect) rather than risk abomination boy sending all of Redcliffe to the Cornfield while the warden goes to get help (that may not be forthcoming) from the Tower.

Only once did I allow Isolde to murder Connor, feeling it was better for his mama to do it, and it was so heartwrenching I had to reload. I just couldn't go through with it.

Evil?  I think so, to murder a child for any reason.  But it's also an excruciating thought that you may have to in order to save everyone in Redcliffe.  And a warden trying not to expose a companion to the dangers of the fade and demon in the boy, for what may be little gain (since lore says you can't free abominations from their host without killing the host) would have sufficient motive to do so.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 décembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[Lord of War]

I really don't like the Tower solution. Leave the demon there for days or weeks? Isn't going to happen.

[dainbramage]

Given that I know that going to the circle tower and back has no impact on redcliffe despite letting the demon go unchecked for a week or more -- that's the "best" option. Without that knowledge, killing him is the most sensible option. I value isolde's life over connor's; given that it's a medieval scenario, an infant still has a good chance of dying. With that said I take great joy in punching her out if I plan on killing connor.

And what's with calling it murder? Murder is unlawful killing with malicious intent. That is *not* what is going on if you're killing someone possessed by a demon. I take it every other abomination you kill must count as murder as well then.

Modifié par dainbramage, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:09 .

[keeneaow]

I dont murder him, i didnt even knew that was an option.
I have Isolde sacrificed by Jowen so i can make a deal with the desire demon

[frostajulie]

My cousland always kills Connor. She does not trust magic and will not leave redcliffe to fight the demon while she tromps off to the tower where she may or may not get help. Any mage I make will either go to the tower or sacrifice Isolde depending on how I feel about Jowan. The rest of my characters its a toss up depending on how I rp but I do not think it is evil, it is sad and morally grey but not evil

[Ferretinabun]

dainbramage wrote...

Given that I know that going to the circle tower and back has no impact on redcliffe despite letting the demon go unchecked for a week or more -- that's the "best" option. Without that knowledge, killing him is the most sensible option.

Totally agree. On my first playthrough I did the Tower solution, but I was kicking myself all the way thinking "I bet something awful's happened while I've been away". Felt kinda cheap that nothing had, really.

I value isolde's life over connor's; given that it's a medieval scenario, an infant still has a good chance of dying.

Connor's supposed to be around 10, right? I think that's probably out of the 'danger zone' for infant mortality.

Isolde, meanwhile, seems past prime breeding age for a medieval woman...

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 18 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[galelabriel]

I didn't even know for the longest time that you could actually go to the Mage Tower to get help with the situation. I always did Redcliffe first and a lot of my Wardens go by the motto "get things done the quickest way in order to end the Blight." We were there to get the support of Eamon... nothing else. Didn't trust blood magic, wasn't an option. Thought if we actually left for the Mage Tower that the decision would come back to bite me in the ass and Eamon and everyone in Redcliffe would end up dead. (Would have loved if the game had the stones to do that... but, of course, Eamon turned out to be a very important character in the game.) That left facing the demon right then and there. Took no joy in having the boy lose his life, especially since I couldn't stand his mother and she was to blame for the situation, but felt it was the right decision.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Ferretinabun wrote...

I value isolde's life over connor's; given that it's a medieval scenario, an infant still has a good chance of dying.

Connor's supposed to be around 10, right? I think that's probably out of the 'danger zone' for infant mortality.

Isolde, meanwhile, seems past prime breeding age for a medieval woman...

She manages to have another kid, and dies in the process, if Connor dies. The kid is a mage, and raised without Isolde's interference. In other words, largely by the Circle.

[Dabrikishaw]

If you do Redcliffe first and refuse to use blood magic or if you sided with the templars, then you are justified in killing Connor, from a roleplaying point.

[KotorEffect3]

I usualy save him but I can see where people that kill him are coming from. Even if your warden already saved the mages it is still going to take time to travel to the circle and back. Time in which an abomination can cause alot more damage to redcliffe putting more lives at risk.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 18 décembre 2012 - 10:06 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

dainbramage wrote...

And what's with calling it murder? Murder is unlawful killing with malicious intent. That is *not* what is going on if you're killing someone possessed by a demon. I take it every other abomination you kill must count as murder as well then.

While Connor is an abomination, his situation is unusual in that he is not 100% under the demon's thrall, ie. he still has lucid moments where he can communicate as himself and is aware of what's happening. Your run-of-the-mill abomination doesn't have that.

Besides, murder and the law have different definitions in different cultures. I'm not positive that the Chantry would entirely approve of civilians taking it upon themselves to execute people who might happen to be abominations. That would be a very slippery slope.

Who knows though? This isn't really the place for arguing semantics, in any case.

[TEWR]

They're not mutually exclusive concepts. It's justified, but that doesn't mean it isn't an evil thing to do.

[ToJKa1]

Cyrahzax wrote...

I really don't like the Tower solution. Leave the demon there for days or weeks? Isn't going to happen.

Yes, that's a "get out of jail free" card for a situation with no right solution. I think it would have been better if that plan worked only if you had cleaned the tower before going to Redcliffe.


Anyway, it is justifiable, but evil? That goes into that messy business of sacrificing few for the good of many...

Modifié par ToJKa1, 01 janvier 2013 - 02:40 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Cyrahzax wrote...

I really don't like the Tower solution. Leave the demon there for days or weeks? Isn't going to happen.

Yes, that's a "get out of jail free" card for a situation with no right solution. I think it would have been better if that plan worked only if you had cleaned the tower before going to Redcliffe.

Which you ought to do anyway, so as to get Wynne as soon as possible.

Anyway, it is justifiable, but evil? That goes into that messy business of sacrificing few for the good of many...

Not doing so can be messier. That ends up not being the case, but anyone, player or PC, could believe that Bioware would make that decision matter. Especially since it's right up on the part with the decision you can potentially make to let the village burn.

[ViciousCargo]

Here's why I think murdering Connor is wrong: there's an alternative. If you had no other choice then it's justified, but since the game gives you options, I think it's wrong. But it is only a game, I suppose.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The game gives you options that you don't know will work. If you read a strategy guide, then you know that Jowan won't betray you and that going to the Circle won't get the entire village killed. If you haven't, killing Connor might seem like the best option. (I know the first time I played through this, I was counting on being able to load if Jowan jumped me. If it had happened, I guess Connor would have had to die.)

On the other hand, the character you're roleplaying still doesn't know any of this will work, so if you don't like metagaming...

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 01 janvier 2013 - 05:27 .

[NightfallXIII]

Since the game gives you other choices, it's definetely evil. If there was no other choice or no time to do something else and something/someone was about to explode, it would be justified. Personally, I was tempted to do it just because I hated Isolde.

[ViciousCargo]

I guess I was referring to knowing the options and still choosing to kill Connor. Obviously, if you don't know about the other options then it's the easy way.

[Ihatebadgames]

I killed Conner once.Just to slug Isolde.Wish you could hit her without killing Conner.It's really a toss up as later in the game or in DA:2 they say the people taken over are never the same after,even if freed.