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Why does Bioware seem suprised we would be attached to our Shepard?


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#251
Dr_Extrem

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jtav wrote...

But in any other context, we know what that means. If this were a film, our immediate reaction would be, "Sequel bait" and not because there's any doubt as to him surviving otherwise. If you're determined to say he died, so be it. But if you're this unhappy, move on. There are other games and other fandoms that will give you what you want.


sequel bait, for a sequel, that will never come. at that moment, bioware made it clear, that there would be no more mass effect ...

... that they changed their minds, is something completely different.


the breathe scene was executet in a lousy way ..

- shepard lying in a field hospital - unconscious --> fade to black ... in this case, the player could decide, if shepard wakes up or dies.
- shepard lying in the pile of rubble - rescue team / randon person activates his/her omni tool and applies medi gel --> fade to black

... this would have been neutral grounds for solid headcanon.


the breathe scene alone is a tease.

but maybe, there is something in the making .. or maybe not. they pi**ed on the campfires of a lot of fans. it can only get better.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 17 décembre 2012 - 10:45 .


#252
Ieldra

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iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
As I said before. Shepard has beaten the odds several times. Reasonably, he shouldn't even be alive any more. Yet, he is, and no one complains that "given the situation, it's extremely unlikely he's alive". Why is it so hard to accept that the breath scene means that Shepard has beated the odds yet again? If you see it that way, isn't it awesome in a way?

Of course Bioware could show things differently. But it's a silly complaint. If they made sure that Shepard unequivocally died in every ending, THEN you'd have a cause for complaining. As it is, I find it incomprehensible.


Why is it so difficult to understand that showing a single breath isn't enough?  This is a visual medium.  Images, and the context they have, hold meaning beyond simple intent.  What the image conveys is not necessarilly what it means.  In the face of the horrific choices, the destruction wreaked by the endings. Something more than one breath is needed to inspire hope.

Compare the breath scene with the SCene fro Shepard in ME1.  Both feature a wrecked Citadel, sad companions who believe Shepard to be dead.

 But in ME1, we see Shepard climb out of the rubble.  Wounded but alive, with triumphant music in the background.  Anderson, the squadmates, and an Alliance resscue team are there to greet him/her

In ME3, there's only the sound of wind.  There's nobody there to help.  No Shepard climbing to his/her feet.  Jut mournful music which gets slightly more upbeat at the very last moment, followed by a single breath.  That's not a conclusion, that's a tease.

It's clear Bioware didn't want a "triumphant" ending, that's why they didn't replicate the scene from ME1. Given the damage done to Earth in the war, I don't think it would've been fitting. A sombre tone is appropriate.

As for "it's not enough", I don't exactly know how I would've reacted to the scene with no foreknowledge, but it would've been probably more along the lines of "Yay! Shepard is alive! Now everything I have imagined for the future can finally come to pass." But then I've always felt more like I was writing the story with my game than reading it. 

#253
RocketManSR2

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Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB

#254
Steelcan

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB

Your artistic vision is bad, and you should feel bad

#255
Doctoglethorpe

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Thats the problem I always had with the breathe scene. Its like a campy horror flick's sequel teaser. But according to Bioware there will be no sequel, nor should there be. So then its pointless. Why not just make it a little longer and definitive rather then such a ****ty tongue-in-cheek wink and nod? They could of at least done that in the EC and they specificly chose not to. For some reason they like how it is, as its the only thing that wasn't at all tweaked in the EC.

Maybe they do have something planned for it. Major dick move if so, but I guess better that then to leave it as the garbage it is.

#256
Iakus

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Ieldra2 wrote...

It's clear Bioware didn't want a "triumphant" ending, that's why they didn't replicate the scene from ME1. Given the damage done to Earth in the war, I don't think it would've been fitting. A sombre tone is appropriate.

As for "it's not enough", I don't exactly know how I would've reacted to the scene with no foreknowledge, but it would've been probably more along the lines of "Yay! Shepard is alive! Now everything I have imagined for the future can finally come to pass." But then I've always felt more like I was writing the story with my game than reading it. 



Even without a "triumphant ending" more could easily have been done.

MEHEM in fact, does it, ending with a battered Shepard placing Anderson's name on the memorial wall.  It's still bittersweet, but it clearly show Shepard alive.  Not joyous and triumphant, but sadly paying tribute to those who fell.  

Somber, totally appropriate, and doesnt' tease us with Shepard's current state.  And it took a fan to make it happen.

As for not enough, my reaction is similar to how another put it:  It's a teaser to a sequel that will never happen. Completely unsatisfying.

#257
Doctoglethorpe

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB


Translation: "Because it's EA's story, and they demanded sequel baiting ambiguity and speculation."

or: "Because the walrus we payed to write the ending refuses to work if we take out the red blue and green color coded balls from his water tank." 

Take your pick. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 17 décembre 2012 - 10:53 .


#258
Peranor

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB


Translation: "Because it's EA's story, and they demanded sequel baiting ambiguity and speculation."

or: "Because the walrus we payed to write the ending refuses to work if we take out the red blue and green color coded balls from his water tank."  

Take your pick.  


Never upset the walrus. Never!

#259
paul165

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Coo, coo catcho?

#260
Dr_Extrem

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paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you

#261
Doctoglethorpe

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 17 décembre 2012 - 11:02 .


#262
Iakus

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB


I wonder whatever happened to it being "our" story, and the player is an architect of the story as much as the writer?

#263
Dr_Extrem

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.


i recognised it ... thats enough

#264
Doctoglethorpe

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.


i recognised it ... thats enough


NIEN.  Coo coo ka'choo is from Mrs. Robinson by Simon & Garfunkel. 

#265
Dr_Extrem

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.


i recognised it ... thats enough


NIEN.  Coo coo ka'choo is from Mrs. Robinson by Simon & Garfunkel. 


its NEIN .. not NIEN ..  Image IPB

#266
Doctoglethorpe

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.


i recognised it ... thats enough


NIEN.  Coo coo ka'choo is from Mrs. Robinson by Simon & Garfunkel. 


its NEIN .. not NIEN ..  Image IPB


Where'd you learn that, Hitlerjugend? 

Snap. 

#267
RocketManSR2

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

Thats the problem I always had with the breathe scene. Its like a campy horror flick's sequel teaser. But according to Bioware there will be no sequel, nor should there be. So then its pointless. Why not just make it a little longer and definitive rather then such a ****ty tongue-in-cheek wink and nod? They could of at least done that in the EC and they specificly chose not to. For some reason they like how it is, as its the only thing that wasn't at all tweaked in the EC.

Maybe they do have something planned for it. Major dick move if so, but I guess better that then to leave it as the garbage it is.


I agree completely. Leaving that scene as is in the EC was the real slap in the face for all those players that wanted a real reunion. Looking back, there were 2 things I wanted from the conclusion of the trilogy; to see the Reapers burn and for Shepard to reunite with his crew. They tainted the first and denied me the second. The final DLC that is coming is BioWare's last chance to show me that they actually give a s***.

#268
RocketManSR2

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iakus wrote...
Even without a "triumphant ending" more could easily have been done.

MEHEM in fact, does it, ending with a battered Shepard placing Anderson's name on the memorial wall.  It's still bittersweet, but it clearly show Shepard alive.  Not joyous and triumphant, but sadly paying tribute to those who fell.  

Somber, totally appropriate, and doesnt' tease us with Shepard's current state.  And it took a fan to make it happen.

As for not enough, my reaction is similar to how another put it:  It's a teaser to a sequel that will never happen. Completely unsatisfying.


Since I play on 360, I checked it out on YT the moment I heard about it. BioWare should ashamed of themselves. That mod is excactly what I wanted.

#269
Dr_Extrem

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Coo, coo catcho?


quoting the beatles = instant win.

+1 music for you


Except its goo goo g'joob.

pwnd.


i recognised it ... thats enough


NIEN.  Coo coo ka'choo is from Mrs. Robinson by Simon & Garfunkel. 


its NEIN .. not NIEN ..  Image IPB


Where'd you learn that, Hitlerjugend? 

Snap. 


sure .. i traveled back in time .. while i am on the way .. do you need a souvenier?

#270
RocketManSR2

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iakus wrote...

I wonder whatever happened to it being "our" story, and the player is an architect of the story as much as the writer?


Let's see, it wasn't our story and apparently wasn't BioWare's story, so who did write that abomination of an ending Mr. Hudson? It's like some hack stole the script after Tuchanka and Rannoch and took it upon themselves to destroy the trilogy.

#271
Dr_Extrem

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

I wonder whatever happened to it being "our" story, and the player is an architect of the story as much as the writer?


Let's see, it wasn't our story and apparently wasn't BioWare's story, so who did write that abomination of an ending Mr. Hudson? It's like some hack stole the script after Tuchanka and Rannoch and took it upon themselves to destroy the trilogy.


it was the inquisition .. nobody expects the inquisition!

#272
AlanC9

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iakus wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@iakus

It's enough for some, but evidently not all. Polls I've done consistently show 2/3rds of respondents, at least, accept that Shepard lives.


But is that saying the accept the intention of the scene, or that they're content with the presentation?

One can intellectually understand the meaning of a scene, yet still have a negative emotional reaction to how it was portrayed.


If those are the polls I'm thinking of, the question was simply  what the scene represented -- Shepard living-- rather than the emotional reaction to the scene.

And are we now talking about emotional reaction to the scene rather than what actually happens in the scene? One of the problems with this topic is that people's rhetoric occasionally doesn't have too much to do with the substantive positions. A post like "Telling the player "Your character must die" to complete the game essentually defeats the very point of having a choice-based game" says that the poster believes that Shepard is shown to die, not that he had a negative emotional reaction to the way Shep was shown to live.

#273
Iakus

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AlanC9 wrote...
If those are the polls I'm thinking of, the question was simply  what the scene represented -- Shepard living-- rather than the emotional reaction to the scene.

And are we now talking about emotional reaction to the scene rather than what actually happens in the scene? One of the problems with this topic is that people's rhetoric occasionally doesn't have too much to do with the substantive positions. A post like "Telling the player "Your character must die" to complete the game essentually defeats the very point of having a choice-based game" says that the poster believes that Shepard is shown to die, not that he had a negative emotional reaction to the way Shep was shown to live.


Said poster might counter that there is virtually no differnce between Shepard dying and Shepard "living" save a very brief scene at the very end.  Essentially, getting all the "sadz" of the death of Shepard with only a tiny bit of hope tacked on at the end.

Thus intellectually knowing that Shepard "lives" but with the feeling that all roads lead to inevitable death.  Thus illustrating how you say something is as important as what you're saying.

Such a poster might say...

#274
Neverwinter_Knight77

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Because it's being led by people who make statements such as this:

Image IPB


Translation: "Because it's EA's story, and they demanded sequel baiting ambiguity and speculation."

or: "Because the walrus we payed to write the ending refuses to work if we take out the red blue and green color coded balls from his water tank." 

Take your pick. 

100% true.

RocketManSR2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

I wonder whatever happened to it being "our" story, and the player is an architect of the story as much as the writer?


Let's
see, it wasn't our story and apparently wasn't BioWare's story, so who
did write that abomination of an ending Mr. Hudson? It's like some hack
stole the script after Tuchanka and Rannoch and took it upon themselves
to destroy the trilogy.

Those missions feel like somebody entirely different was writing, compared to the ending.  The ending feels like they gave the script to some drug addict on the street who didn't know anything about Mass Effect!

#275
SpamBot2000

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iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

It's clear Bioware didn't want a "triumphant" ending, that's why they didn't replicate the scene from ME1. Given the damage done to Earth in the war, I don't think it would've been fitting. A sombre tone is appropriate.

As for "it's not enough", I don't exactly know how I would've reacted to the scene with no foreknowledge, but it would've been probably more along the lines of "Yay! Shepard is alive! Now everything I have imagined for the future can finally come to pass." But then I've always felt more like I was writing the story with my game than reading it. 



Even without a "triumphant ending" more could easily have been done.

MEHEM in fact, does it, ending with a battered Shepard placing Anderson's name on the memorial wall.  It's still bittersweet, but it clearly show Shepard alive.  Not joyous and triumphant, but sadly paying tribute to those who fell.  

Somber, totally appropriate, and doesnt' tease us with Shepard's current state.  And it took a fan to make it happen.

As for not enough, my reaction is similar to how another put it:  It's a teaser to a sequel that will never happen. Completely unsatisfying.




This. MEHEM has a completely appropriate tone. Unlike Ieldra's preferred EC synthesis ending, which is basically a jarringly happy fairy tale ending. Shouldn't argue for a sombre tone if you personally choose 'they happily lived forever in perfect understanding, Reaper husks included.'