Hudson just has one of those faces that makes you want to punch it. No rational though behind it, you just do.
Why does Bioware seem suprised we would be attached to our Shepard?
Débuté par
Profanity Beaver
, déc. 16 2012 06:11
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#277
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 10:20
ghost9191
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idk i admit i was attached to shepard. more then any other video game character. but going out a hero would have been nice . for me yeah it sucks . but i would have preferred to stop the reapers without becoming one . in a sense .
and the only ending that has the possibility of shep surviving comes at a pretty great cost lol . simply as put i do dislike that shepard doesn't make it ( iffy ) but kinda expected it. hated more that shep pretty much went out the villain in the end . for the most part
and the only ending that has the possibility of shep surviving comes at a pretty great cost lol . simply as put i do dislike that shepard doesn't make it ( iffy ) but kinda expected it. hated more that shep pretty much went out the villain in the end . for the most part
#278
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 11:42
FlamingBoy
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they weren't surprised so much as they faked surprise as damage control.
The idea was that all the faults (in particular the ending) with the game appeared not to be malicious.
The idea was that all the faults (in particular the ending) with the game appeared not to be malicious.
#279
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 11:44
Zazzerka
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Oh my God, right?EnvyTB075 wrote...
Hudson just has one of those faces that makes you want to punch it. No rational though behind it, you just do.
#280
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 11:50
The Night Mammoth
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GT Zazzerka wrote...
Oh my God, right?EnvyTB075 wrote...
Hudson just has one of those faces that makes you want to punch it. No rational though behind it, you just do.
There's a very.... inappropriately appropriate gif that could have been posted.
Let's just say it involves Anderson's fist and a poorly photoshopped 2d image of Hudson over Udina's face and leave it at that.
#281
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 01:36
Iakus
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Let's not give the mods an excuse to lock this thread, shall we?
#282
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 01:54
Ieldra
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Hmm.... While I don't feel like you about it, I admit it is rather odd to not see this fleshed out more. Without any additional info, I'd say the lead writer wanted Shepard to always die, someone else said "we can't do that" and this is the "compromise". Except that "Shepard survives" was always planned as one of the possible outcomes, given the evidence in the leaked scripts.iakus wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
It's clear Bioware didn't want a "triumphant" ending, that's why they didn't replicate the scene from ME1. Given the damage done to Earth in the war, I don't think it would've been fitting. A sombre tone is appropriate.
As for "it's not enough", I don't exactly know how I would've reacted to the scene with no foreknowledge, but it would've been probably more along the lines of "Yay! Shepard is alive! Now everything I have imagined for the future can finally come to pass." But then I've always felt more like I was writing the story with my game than reading it.
Even without a "triumphant ending" more could easily have been done.
MEHEM in fact, does it, ending with a battered Shepard placing Anderson's name on the memorial wall. It's still bittersweet, but it clearly show Shepard alive. Not joyous and triumphant, but sadly paying tribute to those who fell.
Somber, totally appropriate, and doesnt' tease us with Shepard's current state. And it took a fan to make it happen.
As for not enough, my reaction is similar to how another put it: It's a teaser to a sequel that will never happen. Completely unsatisfying.
I don't find the scene unconvincing as an indicator that Shepard survives (denying that I find silly, really), but I agree it feels like an afterthought. And it shouldn't.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 décembre 2012 - 01:56 .
#283
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 01:57
Kia Purity
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There's already an animated gif in existence of that. 
Seriously though, I'm just surprised that Bioware is even surprised. I mean, they made it a big deal about how it was about OUR Shepard. Of course, we'd be attached! You can't even be surprised if we're upset about what happened to OUR Shepard! Really. It's like there's some kind of weird logical disconnect.
Seriously though, I'm just surprised that Bioware is even surprised. I mean, they made it a big deal about how it was about OUR Shepard. Of course, we'd be attached! You can't even be surprised if we're upset about what happened to OUR Shepard! Really. It's like there's some kind of weird logical disconnect.
#284
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 02:20
Ieldra
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It's even weirder: we know they made the scenes of the game to be emotionally engaging, and whatever else you can say about the games, ME3 specifically: man, did they succeed in that!Kia Purity wrote...
There's already an animated gif in existence of that.
Seriously though, I'm just surprised that Bioware is even surprised. I mean, they made it a big deal about how it was about OUR Shepard. Of course, we'd be attached! You can't even be surprised if we're upset about what happened to OUR Shepard! Really. It's like there's some kind of weird logical disconnect.
And now they're wondering why we're emotionally invested to our characters. Hey, Bioware, you made it that way on purpose!
#285
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 03:00
Neverwinter_Knight77
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Perfect ending for me: No Deus Ex Machina or Gainax Ending. The combined fleets destroy the Reapers, memorial ceremony, Council gives medals, Shep & Tali live happily-ever-after in love together on Rannoch, no synthesis or control, EDI and geth live. Screw this "we want a depressing ending" crap.
#286
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 03:19
Heimdall
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I think they expected people to be attached they just didn't expect that attachment to manifest as an emotional desire to keep your Shepard's alive.
I was attached to mine but totally cool with the idea of a sacrificial ending, preferred it actually.
I was attached to mine but totally cool with the idea of a sacrificial ending, preferred it actually.
#287
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 03:21
Darth Asriel
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In the end Hudson and Walters proved they didn't even really know anything about the world they created. We called them on the lore breaking endings. Mass Relays destroyed killing everyone. Joker fleeing for no reason. The circular logic glowboy uses. 3 identical endings vs the 16 we were promised. And in the end they do the EC which is stupid beyond belief. Harbinger blasts everything in sight to ash except the Normandy. He lets Shep get a contrived goodbye. Joker abandons Shep because someone says to, even though his character arc made it clear he blames himself for Shep dying in ME2. The refuse ending being one of the only points in which The player controls Shep like in past games. Taking a stand, and it's a gigantic F U.
#288
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 03:26
Almostfaceman
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Darth Asriel wrote...
In the end Hudson and Walters proved they didn't even really know anything about the world they created. We called them on the lore breaking endings. Mass Relays destroyed killing everyone. Joker fleeing for no reason. The circular logic glowboy uses. 3 identical endings vs the 16 we were promised. And in the end they do the EC which is stupid beyond belief. Harbinger blasts everything in sight to ash except the Normandy. He lets Shep get a contrived goodbye. Joker abandons Shep because someone says to, even though his character arc made it clear he blames himself for Shep dying in ME2. The refuse ending being one of the only points in which The player controls Shep like in past games. Taking a stand, and it's a gigantic F U.
Sadly, I have to agree.
#289
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 04:15
Massa FX
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Still butt hurt over Shep's fates. RGB still sucks and will always suck. But, I still believe in BW because I play all their games, not just ME. Overall, I buy their products because I love RPG's, especially ones that I can become a strong female lead.
Femshep is the most fun Ive had in any game. The power of that alone is something BW underestimated. They made her more than just a game character by humanizing her, and at tge same time, superhumanizing her. The supporting cast... they made like family.
The power of family... not sure Ive ever experienced the feels that ME inspired.
That emotional tie to the characters was not understood by BW.
I dont understand it myself... but its there.
Femshep is the most fun Ive had in any game. The power of that alone is something BW underestimated. They made her more than just a game character by humanizing her, and at tge same time, superhumanizing her. The supporting cast... they made like family.
The power of family... not sure Ive ever experienced the feels that ME inspired.
That emotional tie to the characters was not understood by BW.
I dont understand it myself... but its there.
Modifié par Massa FX, 18 décembre 2012 - 04:24 .
#290
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 04:26
riveraeg
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First of all I was suprised by the ending.
I keep reminding myself why they did not go more the path of Baltdur's Gate Throne of Bhaal. In which the character if he lives he has a choice. I still say the endings should be more like this.
1. if low EMS and poor decisions, Shepard just fails to active the cruicible. (He looses)
2. if high EMS and poor dcisions, Shepard activates the cruicible and he dies because he can't get recued. Heroic Death.
3. if low EMS and Good Decisions Shepard dies but a squadmate activates the cruicible and someone he also dies.
4. if high EMS and Good Decisions Shepards survives.
If Shepards Survives
He can then become the Human Conselor and a seat on the council
He can keep being a Spectre
He can retire and grow a family
Shepard can also go into space to explore something.
I keep reminding myself why they did not go more the path of Baltdur's Gate Throne of Bhaal. In which the character if he lives he has a choice. I still say the endings should be more like this.
1. if low EMS and poor decisions, Shepard just fails to active the cruicible. (He looses)
2. if high EMS and poor dcisions, Shepard activates the cruicible and he dies because he can't get recued. Heroic Death.
3. if low EMS and Good Decisions Shepard dies but a squadmate activates the cruicible and someone he also dies.
4. if high EMS and Good Decisions Shepards survives.
If Shepards Survives
He can then become the Human Conselor and a seat on the council
He can keep being a Spectre
He can retire and grow a family
Shepard can also go into space to explore something.
#291
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 04:43
Diurdi
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riveraeg wrote...
First of all I was suprised by the ending.
I keep reminding myself why they did not go more the path of Baltdur's Gate Throne of Bhaal. In which the character if he lives he has a choice. I still say the endings should be more like this.
1. if low EMS and poor decisions, Shepard just fails to active the cruicible. (He looses)
2. if high EMS and poor dcisions, Shepard activates the cruicible and he dies because he can't get recued. Heroic Death.
3. if low EMS and Good Decisions Shepard dies but a squadmate activates the cruicible and someone he also dies.
4. if high EMS and Good Decisions Shepards survives.
If Shepards Survives
He can then become the Human Conselor and a seat on the council
He can keep being a Spectre
He can retire and grow a family
Shepard can also go into space to explore something.
Artistic integriteeeee...
#292
Guest_vivaladricas_*
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 04:45
Guest_vivaladricas_*
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It certainly creates a more attached feeling if you can create a character and get decent dialogue choices where it somewhat breaks the 4th wall. Speaking for myself I became very immersed in ME and it makes me excited for the future with other devs that were inspired by what Bioware did upping the ante.
So if my Shep is an extension of myself then my Shep is competitive to a degree where it is a problem. The ending made me feel only as if the reapers allowed me to win. That ties in with me being a teenager (13) and my older friend let win a 1 v 1 basketball game, when I knew he did I was upset over that for years. Just ate at me so I improved and got better and taller with age, and ultimately at 16 I began to win with him giving full effort. At 17 I would win 9 out of ten times, so he became the bar and I trained myself to rise above that bar.
Been like that ever since. My best friend who I taught how to bowl beat me once after probably twenty five straight wins. I was pissed I lost, I did not congratulate him, I was pissy for a half an hour, he got pissy and I apologized and finally did say congrats. That still ate at me that I lost that one time and still does.
Playing ME3, I cracked her up to "insanity" and wanted to only pulverize and dominate the game. Did so with little issues, after COD 2 and COD 4 this game was cake. I am under the thought I am kicking their butt, then they hand it to me. I got too big an ego for that, if I lose then I lose, I don't want it given to me in any game I play. Video game or athletic games.
The legend thing for myself doesn't work as well. A living legend is awesome since I like accolades I can experience. A dead legend is an "I don't give a F!" I wouldn't care if some people stand in front of a memorial wall with a proud look on their face for a few moments then they are off to live life which is expected and they should do. I just have too big an ego for that kind of stuff. If my crew-mates weren't being in game as cowardly and just sitting in space and eventually bailing on my character then maybe I would care more.
Shep is just left there to do it all himself and it is out of character for all those characters I met in the series to be chilling having tea and none of the 20 characters( i think) not trying to help or get where my character was. Although this could make sense since in all three games in every fight they kept going down more than Paris Hilton and I had to say "F it, I will do it myself."
So if my Shep is an extension of myself then my Shep is competitive to a degree where it is a problem. The ending made me feel only as if the reapers allowed me to win. That ties in with me being a teenager (13) and my older friend let win a 1 v 1 basketball game, when I knew he did I was upset over that for years. Just ate at me so I improved and got better and taller with age, and ultimately at 16 I began to win with him giving full effort. At 17 I would win 9 out of ten times, so he became the bar and I trained myself to rise above that bar.
Been like that ever since. My best friend who I taught how to bowl beat me once after probably twenty five straight wins. I was pissed I lost, I did not congratulate him, I was pissy for a half an hour, he got pissy and I apologized and finally did say congrats. That still ate at me that I lost that one time and still does.
Playing ME3, I cracked her up to "insanity" and wanted to only pulverize and dominate the game. Did so with little issues, after COD 2 and COD 4 this game was cake. I am under the thought I am kicking their butt, then they hand it to me. I got too big an ego for that, if I lose then I lose, I don't want it given to me in any game I play. Video game or athletic games.
The legend thing for myself doesn't work as well. A living legend is awesome since I like accolades I can experience. A dead legend is an "I don't give a F!" I wouldn't care if some people stand in front of a memorial wall with a proud look on their face for a few moments then they are off to live life which is expected and they should do. I just have too big an ego for that kind of stuff. If my crew-mates weren't being in game as cowardly and just sitting in space and eventually bailing on my character then maybe I would care more.
Shep is just left there to do it all himself and it is out of character for all those characters I met in the series to be chilling having tea and none of the 20 characters( i think) not trying to help or get where my character was. Although this could make sense since in all three games in every fight they kept going down more than Paris Hilton and I had to say "F it, I will do it myself."
Modifié par vivaladricas, 18 décembre 2012 - 04:50 .
#293
Posté 18 décembre 2012 - 04:48
Iakus
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Ieldra2 wrote...
Hmm.... While I don't feel like you about it, I admit it is rather odd to not see this fleshed out more. Without any additional info, I'd say the lead writer wanted Shepard to always die, someone else said "we can't do that" and this is the "compromise". Except that "Shepard survives" was always planned as one of the possible outcomes, given the evidence in the leaked scripts.iakus wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
It's clear Bioware didn't want a "triumphant" ending, that's why they didn't replicate the scene from ME1. Given the damage done to Earth in the war, I don't think it would've been fitting. A sombre tone is appropriate.
As for "it's not enough", I don't exactly know how I would've reacted to the scene with no foreknowledge, but it would've been probably more along the lines of "Yay! Shepard is alive! Now everything I have imagined for the future can finally come to pass." But then I've always felt more like I was writing the story with my game than reading it.
Even without a "triumphant ending" more could easily have been done.
MEHEM in fact, does it, ending with a battered Shepard placing Anderson's name on the memorial wall. It's still bittersweet, but it clearly show Shepard alive. Not joyous and triumphant, but sadly paying tribute to those who fell.
Somber, totally appropriate, and doesnt' tease us with Shepard's current state. And it took a fan to make it happen.
As for not enough, my reaction is similar to how another put it: It's a teaser to a sequel that will never happen. Completely unsatisfying.
I don't find the scene unconvincing as an indicator that Shepard survives (denying that I find silly, really), but I agree it feels like an afterthought. And it shouldn't.
It's precisely the tacked on "compromise" of the scene that robs it of the emotional triumph the player should be feeling in the scene. I mean, yeah it technically fufills the "Shepard lives" requirement for the ending. But as you observed, it's not well fleshed out at all.
Compare it to the Normandy crash in teh first ending. Remember how everyone commented on the "unpleasant implications"? "Planet Plothole", "Gilligan's Planet", even "Planet Deliverance"? Bioware fixed that by showing the Normandy lifting off again in High-EMS endings. It got fleshed out, we knew they'd be okay. Shepard got no such treatment. It's just as bad as it was in the original ending.
As I said a while back, it's giving us a bean and calling it a feast.
Modifié par iakus, 18 décembre 2012 - 04:50 .
