292 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I'd disagree about imports. I had to give up my non-import game because it was so depressing. My favorite character murdered. The geth extinct and the quarians not really learning anything. The krogan will go extinct and again are stuck making the same mistakes over and over. Prangley was killed and his classmates are terrified.

None of that happened in my canon game. I chose Synthesis. I died. But because of my choice, there are futuristic cities I can only dream of. The quarians are maskless. The krogan have not only rebuilt but surpassed their former glory. My LI is building a city, surrounded by other people. That isn't depressing. I'd rather live than die, but it was worth it.

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

I'd disagree about imports. I had to give up my non-import game because it was so depressing. My favorite character murdered. The geth extinct and the quarians not really learning anything. The krogan will go extinct and again are stuck making the same mistakes over and over. Prangley was killed and his classmates are terrified.
.

And this is why I think the endings are more appropriate fro nonimport Shepards.  Depressing endings for a depressing game.

[jtav]

Except, as I said I didn't find the ending depressing at all. I died, but I *won* Because of me, the Reapers themselves were redeemed and the cycle is over for good. Tuchanka is better than ever. Quarians don't have to wear masks (as someone who depends on assistive tech in RL, that would be every Christmas at once). Those I care about will have a wonderful future. So no, not depressing.

[Dean_the_Young]

iakus wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Exactly this. I am playing a non-import because some of us wanted to know the difference. It is better by far. They made this game for a new fanbase. Apparently those of us that have been around since the first game are dispensible.

Someone should tell Bioware that fans are not Doritos and "Crunch all you want, we'll make more" is not a good philosophy to have regarding them.

Doritos or the fans? 


[/smilie of choice here]

[mnomaha]

jtav wrote...

I'd disagree about imports. I had to give up my non-import game because it was so depressing. My favorite character murdered. The geth extinct and the quarians not really learning anything. The krogan will go extinct and again are stuck making the same mistakes over and over. Prangley was killed and his classmates are terrified.

None of that happened in my canon game. I chose Synthesis. I died. But because of my choice, there are futuristic cities I can only dream of. The quarians are maskless. The krogan have not only rebuilt but surpassed their former glory. My LI is building a city, surrounded by other people. That isn't depressing. I'd rather live than die, but it was worth it.

That's kind of my point. If you've never played the first two games, it's very emotionally charged. If you have played the first two, it's emotionally charged, but with a lot of negitive emotions.

In an import, my favourite character was murdered by bioware. Jacob's character was assassinated via stereotype. Others were reduced to patethic cameos.

In a non-import, most of the characters are killed off as if they never existed, so a newb would never know. It's a decent enough game if you don't know what you're missing.

[jtav]

Jacob I will grant you (how did something that blatantly racist not get caught) but the cameos range from the good to the dreadful. A personal happy ending was never promised. Wee beat the Reapers. Trillions of lives that would have been extinguished aren't going to be. Jack's going to be with her students. Miranda has Ori and appears to be doing something awesome in both slides. The story doesn't become depressing because the hero dies, not when death accomplishes so much.

[Guy On The Moon]

Because Bioware voluntarily merged with EA, and EA turned them into money crazed developers who don't give a flying **** about their actual fans

...truth be told

[mnomaha]

@jtav...I agree, they didn't promise a personal happy ending. They certainly didn't provide one. They provided skittles.

I never expected a happy ending...I expected a great finish to an epic series, with choice validation and cohesiveness. I got none of these things.

My Shep died cold and alone somewhere between the Citadel and Earth. Although tbh, MY personal FemShep died at Huerta.

[mass perfection]

If the people that made Omega DLC are making ME4 then we should get our FPS skills up.

Modifié par mass perfection, 16 décembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Dr_Extrem]

mnomaha wrote...

@jtav...I agree, they didn't promise a personal happy ending. They certainly didn't provide one. They provided skittles.

I never expected a happy ending...I expected a great finish to an epic series, with choice validation and cohesiveness. I got none of these things.

My Shep died cold and alone somewhere between the Citadel and Earth. Although tbh, MY personal FemShep died at Huerta.

"happy" is relative.

the living carry the haviest burdens.

my shepard survived .. and helped with rebuilding and exploring new frontiers - spacer to the core. this all was possible after several therapy sessions .. but the burdon of being a survivor weights heavily. (my shepard is a war hero and not used to feelings like this)

good thing, that there are friends and loved ones around.

[AlanC9]

mnomaha wrote...
That's kind of my point. If you've never played the first two games, it's very emotionally charged. If you have played the first two, it's emotionally charged, but with a lot of negitive emotions.

In an import, my favourite character was murdered by bioware. Jacob's character was assassinated via stereotype. Others were reduced to patethic cameos.

In a non-import, most of the characters are killed off as if they never existed, so a newb would never know. It's a decent enough game if you don't know what you're missing.

So when you're saying a non-import is better, you're making assumptions about how players who never played the earlier games. None this can apply to you playing a non-import because you already know these characters.

I'd have a lot more confidence in the argument if it was made by someone who actually hadn't played the earlier games until after playing ME3.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 décembre 2012 - 11:38 .

[mnomaha]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

@jtav...I agree, they didn't promise a personal happy ending. They certainly didn't provide one. They provided skittles.

I never expected a happy ending...I expected a great finish to an epic series, with choice validation and cohesiveness. I got none of these things.

My Shep died cold and alone somewhere between the Citadel and Earth. Although tbh, MY personal FemShep died at Huerta.

"happy" is relative.

the living carry the haviest burdens.

my shepard survived .. and helped with rebuilding and exploring new frontiers - spacer to the core. this all was possible after several therapy sessions .. but the burdon of being a survivor weights heavily. (my shepard is a war hero and not used to feelings like this)

good thing, that there are friends and loved ones around.

*grumbles* bloody profound gamers...   Well said though...

I can only use the ending mod on my non-imported playthrough. All my imports would probably invalidate it.

[Iakus]

mnomaha wrote...

@jtav...I agree, they didn't promise a personal happy ending. They certainly didn't provide one. They provided skittles.

I never expected a happy ending...I expected a great finish to an epic series, with choice validation and cohesiveness. I got none of these things.

My Shep died cold and alone somewhere between the Citadel and Earth. Although tbh, MY personal FemShep died at Huerta.

I expected happy and sad endings.  And everything in between.

But most of all I expected it to be my ending

[Dr_Extrem]

mnomaha wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

@jtav...I agree, they didn't promise a personal happy ending. They certainly didn't provide one. They provided skittles.

I never expected a happy ending...I expected a great finish to an epic series, with choice validation and cohesiveness. I got none of these things.

My Shep died cold and alone somewhere between the Citadel and Earth. Although tbh, MY personal FemShep died at Huerta.

"happy" is relative.

the living carry the haviest burdens.

my shepard survived .. and helped with rebuilding and exploring new frontiers - spacer to the core. this all was possible after several therapy sessions .. but the burdon of being a survivor weights heavily. (my shepard is a war hero and not used to feelings like this)

good thing, that there are friends and loved ones around.

*grumbles* bloody profound gamers...   Well said though...

I can only use the ending mod on my non-imported playthrough. All my imports would probably invalidate it.

i am on a fresh series playthrough right now .. just had my "mako-weekend" ..
my squadmates will need the next week to get back on their feet - after touring all those bloody planets with shepard driving.

try a more positive series playthrough .. the standard shepard does not really deserve a happier ending (imho).

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 17 décembre 2012 - 12:02 .

[mnomaha]

>.>

I freaking loved the Mako!!! Loved that think almost more than my squadmates!

[Dr_Extrem]

mnomaha wrote...

>.>

I freaking loved the Mako!!! Loved that think almost more than my squadmates!

its a hate-love relationship .. i love the mako .. my squadmates hate my driving style.

[mnomaha]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

>.>

I freaking loved the Mako!!! Loved that think almost more than my squadmates!

its a hate-love relationship .. i love the mako .. my squadmates hate my driving style.

Did you head canon them bouncing around and screaming as you flew full throttle over the cliffs? I swear Wrex screams like a little Krogan female. Pretty sure I gave him some of those scars too.

[JasonShepard]

mnomaha wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

>.>

I freaking loved the Mako!!! Loved that think almost more than my squadmates!

its a hate-love relationship .. i love the mako .. my squadmates hate my driving style.

Did you head canon them bouncing around and screaming as you flew full throttle over the cliffs? I swear Wrex screams like a little Krogan female. Pretty sure I gave him some of those scars too.

Heck, I headcanoned that Wrex was the one driving...

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Fixers0 wrote...

 Autodialogue and the Lack of control over events certainly is a big blight on this game. 

And the lack of a middle dialog option.  Remember when we were playing the demo, and some of us thought "The real game will have the middle dialog option."?  We ended up being so wrong.

iakus wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Just
what, for example, would constitute 'unacceptable losses' that hasn't
been already done? The EC salved most of the uproar. IT-advocates have
self-marginalized, and were never a particularly credible narrative
alternative. Nine months later, new releases and new prospects are
dominating gamer attention, and a good portion of the anti-ending
lingering sentiment is from the same few dozen of people posting
regular and consistent variations of the same views and clais.

I'd
say that's a bit of an exageration.  I think time mor ethan anything
else, has dulled the uproar (which is still substantial)  At htis point
many players that are still unhappy have moved on to other games and
other forums.   With EC, Bioware pretty much just ran out the clock
until the energy was expended and the rage turned into apathy.

Now the real trick will be getting that apathetic crowd back with the next Biwoare game.  How do you earn back that trust?

I agree with a lot of your posts, iakus, including this one.  As for me, my trust in Bioware is gone forever.  ME3's ending wasn't the first screw-up, but it opened my eyes.

Linkenski wrote...

Shepards "fleshed-out character" is
what made me dislike Mass Effect 3 even before the ending. Sure it IS a
good game, and i even like some bits of the endings. To me autodialogue
just stopped me from enjoying the rest of the game. I was constantly
thinking, in almost every mission, stuff like "What, no! I would never
have said that" and "you're being a renegade againnnn....."

I agree with this part of your post.  Shepard was totally out of character in some scenes.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I agree but just to play devil's advocate:

The
audience that Bioware should cater to during their post-release DLC
schedule should be the hardcore fans since they are the ones who still
hold interest in the series despite all the other distractions of the
year.

I don't agree that EVERY hardcore fan wants to purchase
new ending content (I don't), but Omega (for example) has received
mixed reviews from both the critics and the fans because it seems to be
targetted for a broader audience that isn't even interested ME3 anymore.

What
makes someone a 'hardcore fan', without falling into the 'No True
Scotsman' fallacy? And are 'hardcore fans' even a commercially viable
consumer group in the first place?

It's simple.  Hardcore fans are emotionally invested in the product.  They buy merchandise, they're loyal, and best of all, they're free word-of-mouth advertising.  For a company to disregard them and go mass-market is just idiotic.  If somebody wants to play Call of Duty, why settle for a knockoff?  They'll play Call of Duty.  If somebody wants to drink Pepsi, they won't drink New Coke, they'll drink Pepsi.  Companies should stick with what they know.  When they try to "go mainstream", they don't impress the newcomers, and they alienate their hardcore fans.  Everybody loses.

Guy On The Moon wrote...



Because Bioware voluntarily
merged with EA, and EA turned them into money crazed developers who
don't give a flying **** about their actual fans



...truth be told

True.

MegaSovereign wrote...



I'm just as surprised people are
attached to Shepard. He/She is not a defined character and definitely
not the highlight of the series.



I was more attached to my squadmates.

I agree.  I was more attached to my Grey Warden, to be honest.  I played the Mass Effect series because I loved the characters.  The squadmates.  I loved Tali, Garrus, Wrex, "ME1 Liara", Mordin, and even the supporting characters like Captain/Major Kirrahe.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The way ME3 was written you could
have played it without playing either of the other two games. You
probably would have felt better at the end. It was a better place to
start. You wouldn't be attached to the plot or the characters. You
would have cared about shooting and game mechanics and multiplayer. The
ending would have been "meh" so what, it sucks. You might not have even
gotten that far. You might have just gotten as far as say Thessia then
just played multiplayer or gone on to another game.

The rest
of us who played all the way through felt the pain. There was no way in
hell Shepard could have survived that explosion. In all three endings
you died, all the mass relays were destroyed, the Normandy was stranded
on some planet god knows where, the ships in the Sword Fleet either
blew up because their drive cores and computers were targeted or
everyone starved. The galaxy was a wasteland. And then if you worked
really hard and chose destroy they teased you with this breath scene
which given the size of the explosion on the Citadel makes absolutely
no sense at all, unless Shepard never made it to the Citadel in the
first place, and this gives rise to indoctrination theory.

Many
of us played multiple plays of ME1 and ME2. Some explored every
possibility, This could have resulted in 1600 hrs total for some
players for two games. I had 1200. How could we not be attached to "our
Shepards". They each had different names. They each had different
faces.

Then they say "we didn't know you wanted closure."

So
they give us "clarification" like we're a bunch of idiots. Still, no
closure. Still same (expletives deleted) of an ending. 5 years we
waited. This game could have been the best of the decade. It could have
been a legitimate Game of the Year (forget that paid shill
GameInformer), better than Skyrim. But they broke my heart. I am
holding the line and waiting to see if they come up with something with
Puzzle Theory. Until then I use MEHEM. Thank you MrFob. It took a
community member to save this game.

I'm also waiting to see if
the puzzle theory pans out, but did you watch the extended cut?  The
Normandy's not really stranded, and at least some of the allied fleet
survived.  Still, I am holding out for a better ending.

[Dean_the_Young]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

It's simple.  Hardcore fans are emotionally invested in the product.  They buy merchandise, they're loyal, and best of all, they're free word-of-mouth advertising.  For a company to disregard them and go mass-market is just idiotic.  If somebody wants to play Call of Duty, why settle for a knockoff?  They'll play Call of Duty.  If somebody wants to drink Pepsi, they won't drink New Coke, they'll drink Pepsi.  Companies should stick with what they know.  When they try to "go mainstream", they don't impress the newcomers, and they alienate their hardcore fans.  Everybody loses.

And what if you find ME3 to be much in the same vein as the previous ones, or even general Bioware games: an overall solid game with quality ranging from the absurd to the excellent? ME3 never struck me as terribly outside of Bioware norms: if anything, it was more faithful (ie, more embracing about the bittersweet, with writing quality varying from excellent to faithpalm) than ME2 (which embraced positive validation to the point of lacking tragedy or loss). If there was an outlier to the series, it was ME2.

To someone like myself, ME2 was the 'sellout', and ME3 would have been the return to the standards I hold more important.

[Femlob]

mnomaha wrote...

>.>

I freaking loved the Mako!!! Loved that think almost more than my squadmates!

The Mako is cool.

It's the terrain that should be shot to shit.

[Iakus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
And what if you find ME3 to be much in the same vein as the previous ones, or even general Bioware games: an overall solid game with quality ranging from the absurd to the excellent? ME3 never struck me as terribly outside of Bioware norms: if anything, it was more faithful (ie, more embracing about the bittersweet, with writing quality varying from excellent to faithpalm) than ME2 (which embraced positive validation to the point of lacking tragedy or loss). If there was an outlier to the series, it was ME2.

To someone like myself, ME2 was the 'sellout', and ME3 would have been the return to the standards I hold more important.

I can't recall a single Bioware game that forced the player character to commit suicide to complete the game.  If the character lived there was always definitive proof, not "implications" strong or otherwise.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

A personal happy ending was never promised. Wee beat the Reapers. Trillions of lives that would have been extinguished aren't going to be. Jack's going to be with her students. Miranda has Ori and appears to be doing something awesome in both slides. The story doesn't become depressing because the hero dies, not when death accomplishes so much.

The ending isn't bad because it involves sacrifice. It's bad because it is poorly written. You can tell by the way the necessity of your death is not shown, but told. "The mystery machine just so happens to be powered by souls" basically.

You can also tell by the way the situation which makes your death necessary is created and concluded within ten minutes. The Warden died to stop a Blight that had been the drive of the plot since minute one. William Wallace died for a cause he'd been fighting for since the opening credits. ME3 spends 2.9 games with a plot that is all about fighting the Reapers, then at the last second invents a new situation, namely "solve a cosmic existential problem", and then asks you to die for it.

I really don't understand how I'm expected to derive a sense of accomplishment from something so abrupt and arbitrary, especially when they make the foolish decision to make my enemy the mouthpiece of this last minute story shift. And especially when I don't even agree with the problem. Sacrifice needs to be well built up to. The necessity of my death needs to be observable, appreciable.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Nightwriter wrote...

The ending isn't bad because it involves sacrifice. It's bad because it is poorly written. You can tell by the way the necessity of your death is not shown, but told. "The mystery machine just so happens to be powered by souls" basically.

Well, so much for that childhood memory.

Though in all seriousness, your post was spot on.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:27 .

[Necrotron]

They seemed to be suprised that having an ending where the main villain deciding randomly to let you win as the only reason you get to win seemed to make people upset. *shrug* I guess they missed that part in the review of it, since it technically had a lot of features that people generally like, great music, great atmosphere, etc, and obviously, some do like (e.g. see ending likers).  Plenty of others will say it broke their suspension of disbelief because it was really poorly written.

But most people didn't find it very satifying to find out that A) they lost except the catalyst decided to randomly make Shepard 'the one' and let him pick a fate and every choice given the player at the end is full of contrived anticlimatic grey choices that force the player to sacrifice some degree of morality.

Many argue that goes against the pre-established theme of Mass Effect of overcoming despite all odds and unity through diversity. And of course, arguments about this game will ensue for years on end.  All I can say is, what a tragedy (and not the good kind), extended cut and all.

Modifié par Bathaius, 17 décembre 2012 - 04:36 .