214 réponses à ce sujet

[Epic777]

Mcfly616 wrote...

No surprise to me. People write it off as impossible without having a clue in the slightest as to what is going on inside the Devs heads.

Mass Effect is the only game that carries over choices. If anything, I'd be completely surprised if they didn't consider carrying over the biggest choice in the entire series.

@Mcfly616
Are you suprised most are pessimistic? When the dust has settled, Bioware couldn't keep their big promise of the ME trilogy. Individual choices don't matter in the grand scope of ME3. If you did A, B,C  or D,E,F your ending choices remained the same. 

As for the ending choices, do you really believe all will be protrayed in some meaningful way? Thats the key. I say Bioware cannot pull it off. 

[3DandBeyond]

Mcfly616 wrote...

No surprise to me. People write it off as impossible without having a clue in the slightest as to what is going on inside the Devs heads.

Mass Effect is the only game that carries over choices. If anything, I'd be completely surprised if they didn't consider carrying over the biggest choice in the entire series.

Well how could we know that since even they don't seem to know what's going on.  Mac is the one that said the galaxy would be a wasteland and then couldn't figure out why people would think that. 

However, of course they have to carry over one decision and thus make one canon.  Unless they want to make a new nonsensical ending that tries to say that neither choice mattered anyway.  Oh wait, they're good at doing that so that is probably what will happen, whether you do or do not carry over a saved game.  Major retcon.  And since BW just loves doing the opposite of what people say, here's my prediction that I hope they will not make come true.

ME4 will make it possible for any ending except refuse to happen by ignoring any of the consequences that would make sense to have happen.  Green eyes will go away but everyone will be said to be part synthetic-never specifically referring to what the crucible did.  There will be no sign of the reapers and it will be known that they were gone but the mechanism for their disappearance will never be stated-could have been destroyed, could have been controlled or synthesized.  Reaper variants will just be gone and never talked about, unless you see one or two token ones running around such as Bob your neighbor.  All tech will have been rebuilt but it's never exactly stated how that happened.  The geth will not be an issue because all remaining geth (numbers not stated and it's implied that some were either rebuilt or the geth were never destroyed) will have left for a different star system.  Or, they will exist but more in the background and they won't have any real story impact.  The quarians will have reclaimed Rannoch and everyone rebuilt their homeworlds (or is still rebuilding) after events of the war.

No specific choice will be mentioned since no choice mattered.  And events will largely be the same with some minor variance in some dialogue.  Just as major events in ME1 and 2 had no impact on ME3, major events in ME3 will have no impact other than minor dialogue in ME4, even with a save import.

[Mcfly616]

Epic777 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

No surprise to me. People write it off as impossible without having a clue in the slightest as to what is going on inside the Devs heads.

Mass Effect is the only game that carries over choices. If anything, I'd be completely surprised if they didn't consider carrying over the biggest choice in the entire series.

@Mcfly616
Are you suprised most are pessimistic? When the dust has settled, Bioware couldn't keep their big promise of the ME trilogy. Individual choices don't matter in the grand scope of ME3. If you did A, B,C  or D,E,F your ending choices remained the same. 

As for the ending choices, do you really believe all will be protrayed in some meaningful way? Thats the key. I say Bioware cannot pull it off. 

pretty sure individual choices do matter, considering the Geth whiped out the Quarians and Tali committed suicide on my first playthrough. (When that obviously wasn't my intention.) Just because the ending is a completely separate choice doesn't mean your choices didn't affect anything. That statement is inherently false.

[MegaSovereign]

One things for sure BSN degrades the Mass Effect experience for me. Learning about leaked scripts and early concepts and who is writing what and bla bla bla. It makes me a bit more pessimistic and sensitive to flaws. Mainly because it reminds me that Bioware is full of humans and humans suck. I preferred my blissful ignorance and when I thought God created Mass Effect on the 8th day.

So IDK. I might just leave BSN as soon as ME4 is announced.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

One things for sure BSN degrades the Mass Effect experience for me. Learning about leaked scripts and early concepts and who is writing what and bla bla bla. It makes me a bit more pessimistic and sensitive to flaws. Mainly because it reminds me that Bioware is full of humans and humans suck. I preferred my blissful ignorance and when I thought God created Mass Effect on the 8th day.

So IDK. I might just leave BSN as soon as ME4 is announced.

It's what I did before ME3, still didn't work out so well
Just saying.

[Mcfly616]

I see no reason why carrying over the final choice shouldn't be possible. Especially if the Geth and Reapers aren't involved in the central narrative, it would be entirely plausible.


There may not be an intergalactic threat ever again(and the next story shouldn't involve one)....but that doesn't mean there won't be any conflict on a small scale. For all we know the story could be centered on the criminal underworld of the galaxy.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 17 décembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

One things for sure BSN degrades the Mass Effect experience for me. Learning about leaked scripts and early concepts and who is writing what and bla bla bla. It makes me a bit more pessimistic and sensitive to flaws. Mainly because it reminds me that Bioware is full of humans and humans suck. I preferred my blissful ignorance and when I thought God created Mass Effect on the 8th day.

So IDK. I might just leave BSN as soon as ME4 is announced.

It's what I did before ME3, still didn't work out so well
Just saying.

When I played ME2 I thought it was Godsend. Then I watched smudboy's analysis and I couldn't play the game again for a month until I realized what a tool smudboy was.

[Epic777]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

No surprise to me. People write it off as impossible without having a clue in the slightest as to what is going on inside the Devs heads.

Mass Effect is the only game that carries over choices. If anything, I'd be completely surprised if they didn't consider carrying over the biggest choice in the entire series.

@Mcfly616
Are you suprised most are pessimistic? When the dust has settled, Bioware couldn't keep their big promise of the ME trilogy. Individual choices don't matter in the grand scope of ME3. If you did A, B,C  or D,E,F your ending choices remained the same. 

As for the ending choices, do you really believe all will be protrayed in some meaningful way? Thats the key. I say Bioware cannot pull it off. 

pretty sure individual choices do matter, considering the Geth whiped out the Quarians and Tali committed suicide on my first playthrough. (When that obviously wasn't my intention.) Just because the ending is a completely separate choice doesn't mean your choices didn't affect anything. That statement is inherently false.

Which lead to what? The same three choices

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...
When I played ME2 I thought it was Godsend. Then I watched smudboy's analysis and I couldn't play the game again for a month until I realized what a tool smudboy was.

See critisim never really bothered me. I liked DA2 don't care that some people hate it, don't nedd confirmation from others to know I'm enjoying something, I form my own opinions. They're just not always favorable.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 17 décembre 2012 - 01:06 .

[shepskisaac]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I see no reason why carrying over the final choice shouldn't be possible. Especially if the Geth and Reapers aren't involved in the central narrative, it would be entirely plausible.

Even if there wasn't any big choice regarding the Geth, they still shouldn't be hugely involved in the central narrative. They already were in the Trilogy, along with Quarians, Krogans and Asari. Not even Turians got as much attention outside Garrus. ME4 should focus on Hanar, Drell (there's that entire plot of Drell living on Hanar homeworld in low numbers while their own homeworld is a toxic waste, this story could go many interesting directions), Volus, Elcor, Yagh, Salarian, Leviathans, Batarians, Virtual Aliens etc

Modifié par IsaacShep, 17 décembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
When I played ME2 I thought it was Godsend. Then I watched smudboy's analysis and I couldn't play the game again for a month until I realized what a tool smudboy was.

See critisim never really bothered me. I liked DA2 don't care that some people hate it, don't nedd confirmation from others to know I'm enjoying something, I form my own opinions. They're just not always favorable.

Smudboy made me realize how weak the plot of the Mass Effect series really was. It broke my immersion for a while.

What keeps me coming back to Mass Effect is its well written characters and sci-fi atmosphere.

[spirosz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Smudboy made me realize how weak the plot of the Mass Effect series really was. It broke my immersion for a while. 

Honestly, you can do that with any game, Smudboy was smart knowing Bioware has a huge fanbase and his views would soar. 

Modifié par spirosz, 17 décembre 2012 - 01:22 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

It's not really as weak as he makes it out to be, he makes a few valid observations but nitpicks to the point of absurdity. The plot was always pretty standard, evil force from beyond that needs to be stopped. Wasn't till I saw the human Reaper when I started raising a concerned eyebrow, but really was the universe and characters I fell in love with more than anything else.

[3DandBeyond]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I see no reason why carrying over the final choice shouldn't be possible. Especially if the Geth and Reapers aren't involved in the central narrative, it would be entirely plausible.

Even if there wasn't any big choice regarding the Geth, they still shouldn't be hugely involved in the central narrative. They already were in the Trilogy, along with Quarians, Krogans and Asari. Not even Turians got as much attention outside Garrus. ME4 should focus on Hanar, Drell (there's that entire plot of Drell living on Hanar homeworld in low numbers while their own homeworld is a toxic waste, this story could go many interesting directions), Volus, Elcor, Yagh, Salarian, Leviathans, Batarians, Virtual Aliens etc

In order to remove the reapers and geth from the narrative you basically have to just ignore the effects of the choices.  One major factor for some people, in choosing Control or even Synthesis was that the geth could survive-not the only issue, but one issue.  So, in order to make that work with a Destroy ending, you have to say that Destroy doesn't mean what it suggests.  Also, in order to make the reapers a non-issue, you have to have some way of making them go away that seems plausible.  But why would they go away?  In Control, you could send them away, they could say that, but why when Shepard reaper commander says s/he/it will protect the Many-seems the reapers are better suited to that then repairing everything.

But, in Synthesis, they would have to decide to leave for some reason.  Does anyone still control them post-synthesis?  Why would they leave?

It's just that they'd have to make up some conveniently contrived story to explain the differences or there are no differences and no choice mattered.  I think they will decide to do this, ignore what should be big differences.

[Iakus]

 importing the ME3 endings would be a huge  mistake, imo.  THe endings should be driven out into a desert, buried and never spoken of again.  The dark near killed the franchise and mentioning them at all will only cause hard feelings

[MegaSovereign]

Derp, they could always say the Geth have been rebuilt post-Destroy. It's what the Catalyst foreshadowed anyway. "Your children will create new synthetics."

We have no real connection any of the Geth so a post-Destroy Geth wouldn't seem any different than a post-Control Geth. And like Isaac says they probably won't be a huge part of the narrative either way.

[Mcfly616]

3DandBeyond wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I see no reason why carrying over the final choice shouldn't be possible. Especially if the Geth and Reapers aren't involved in the central narrative, it would be entirely plausible.

Even if there wasn't any big choice regarding the Geth, they still shouldn't be hugely involved in the central narrative. They already were in the Trilogy, along with Quarians, Krogans and Asari. Not even Turians got as much attention outside Garrus. ME4 should focus on Hanar, Drell (there's that entire plot of Drell living on Hanar homeworld in low numbers while their own homeworld is a toxic waste, this story could go many interesting directions), Volus, Elcor, Yagh, Salarian, Leviathans, Batarians, Virtual Aliens etc

In order to remove the reapers and geth from the narrative you basically have to just ignore the effects of the choices.  One major factor for some people, in choosing Control or even Synthesis was that the geth could survive-not the only issue, but one issue.  So, in order to make that work with a Destroy ending, you have to say that Destroy doesn't mean what it suggests.  Also, in order to make the reapers a non-issue, you have to have some way of making them go away that seems plausible.  But why would they go away?  In Control, you could send them away, they could say that, but why when Shepard reaper commander says s/he/it will protect the Many-seems the reapers are better suited to that then repairing everything.

But, in Synthesis, they would have to decide to leave for some reason.  Does anyone still control them post-synthesis?  Why would they leave?

It's just that they'd have to make up some conveniently contrived story to explain the differences or there are no differences and no choice mattered.  I think they will decide to do this, ignore what should be big differences.

that's not true at all. If they carry over the final choice, they do not have to be involved in the story being told in any way whatsoever. That doesn't mean they can't still be a part of the universe. If you chose control, the Reapers can be distant guardians in the sky. If you chose synthesis the Reapers can be seen roaming around the landscape of hubworlds and other places. The Geth can be seen, involved in everyday society on hubworlds. In Destroy, just remove them from the landscape. Either way, just because Geth and Reapers may still be around, they don't have to play a role in the story.

The rachni weren't involved in ME2's story at all.(besides the 1 conversation with that Asari on Illium.) Does that mean they were non existent? No, they're a part of the universe. They're out there.

[Rip504]

Maybe it will be like DS2,if you have a save file on record you unlock something within the game. Otherwise unlockable.

[Mcfly616]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Derp, they could always say the Geth have been rebuilt post-Destroy. It's what the Catalyst foreshadowed anyway. "Your children will create new synthetics."

We have no real connection any of the Geth so a post-Destroy Geth wouldn't seem any different than a post-Control Geth. And like Isaac says they probably won't be a huge part of the narrative either way.

meh....they could go that route. Personally, if it takes place far enough in the future, the Synthetics in post-Destroy should look and be different than the Geth. Maybe they could have a few resemblances, but they shouldnt be true Geth.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Considering its guaranteed to be exclusively on next gen consoles (and PC, probably) I'd say not gonna happen.

[Mcfly616]

Epic777 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

No surprise to me. People write it off as impossible without having a clue in the slightest as to what is going on inside the Devs heads.

Mass Effect is the only game that carries over choices. If anything, I'd be completely surprised if they didn't consider carrying over the biggest choice in the entire series.

@Mcfly616
Are you suprised most are pessimistic? When the dust has settled, Bioware couldn't keep their big promise of the ME trilogy. Individual choices don't matter in the grand scope of ME3. If you did A, B,C  or D,E,F your ending choices remained the same. 

As for the ending choices, do you really believe all will be protrayed in some meaningful way? Thats the key. I say Bioware cannot pull it off. 

pretty sure individual choices do matter, considering the Geth whiped out the Quarians and Tali committed suicide on my first playthrough. (When that obviously wasn't my intention.) Just because the ending is a completely separate choice doesn't mean your choices didn't affect anything. That statement is inherently false.

Which lead to what? The same three choices

saying your "choices don't matter" isn't the same thing as "my choices don't affect the ending"

[3DandBeyond]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 that's not true at all. If they carry over the final choice, they do not have to be involved in the story being told in any way whatsoever. That doesn't mean they can't still be a part of the universe. If you chose control, the Reapers can be distant guardians in the sky. If you chose synthesis the Reapers can be seen roaming around the landscape of hubworlds and other places. The Geth can be seen, involved in everyday society on hubworlds. In Destroy, just remove them from the landscape. Either way, just because Geth and Reapers may still be around, they don't have to play a role in the story.

The rachni weren't involved in ME2's story at all.(besides the 1 conversation with that Asari on Illium.) Does that mean they were non existent? No, they're a part of the universe. They're out there.

The thing is if you set the reapers up as existing then no threat can gain entrance into the galaxy that does not involve at least some dialogue about them.  Like Vega should shout, "where are the reapers?  Where's the meat?"  Any story must have some type of conflict or there's no reason to shoot them thar guns.  And that means the big bad protectors of the galaxy should intervene or that's a pretty big plot hole right from the start.  As well since this is sci fi that revolves a lot around tech, ignoring a couple of the biggest tech and ending issues of this game will create a huge hole in the game.  Not that they won't do that, since I think they will but it will make it even more juvenile than the beginning of ME3.

The Rachni are not even a fair comparison.  They are not even featured at the end, they are not the central issue of the game (up till the last ten minutes of it), they are not the core adversaries within the game, and they wanted to be just left alone, never wanted to fight or any such thing.  The Rachni story is way more nuanced than just big bad bugs that wanna kill everyone.  And they are never set up as the galaxy's protectors in any ending.

Ignoring the biggest issue in ME3 will probably happen, but it will make ME4 laughable.

[shepskisaac]

3DandBeyond wrote...

In order to remove the reapers and geth from the narrative you basically have to just ignore the effects of the choices.  One major factor for some people, in choosing Control or even Synthesis was that the geth could survive-not the only issue, but one issue.  So, in order to make that work with a Destroy ending, you have to say that Destroy doesn't mean what it suggests.  Also, in order to make the reapers a non-issue, you have to have some way of making them go away that seems plausible.  But why would they go away?  In Control, you could send them away, they could say that, but why when Shepard reaper commander says s/he/it will protect the Many-seems the reapers are better suited to that then repairing everything.

But, in Synthesis, they would have to decide to leave for some reason.  Does anyone still control them post-synthesis?  Why would they leave?

It's just that they'd have to make up some conveniently contrived story to explain the differences or there are no differences and no choice mattered.  I think they will decide to do this, ignore what should be big differences.

Removing Geth/Reapers from central narrative doesn't have to equal negating the choices. For example, let's say that one of the main arcs in ME4 is about restoring Drell Homworld. In order to do that, Shep needs a a couple of pieces of some technology. One of the is by Geth. If Geth are alive, you travel for 1 mission to their Dyson Sphere and get that piece. If they're dead, you instead travel to a planet were all Geth bodies/tech was stored, "Geth Cementary" and geth some tech and get it assembled into a working piece you need. This would honour the choice you've made in ME3 and at the same time bring real difference between Geth!Alive and Geth!Dead variable from ME3. And without making them take the central narrative. (of course this is just an exmaple I put together in 2 seconds, plz, don't judge it on the 'writing quality' lol ;P )

Modifié par IsaacShep, 17 décembre 2012 - 01:54 .

[3DandBeyond]

Mcfly616 wrote...
saying your "choices don't matter" isn't the same thing as "my choices don't affect the ending"

Essentially it does mean the same thing.  In order to matter, those choices needed to affect the ending.  Having the endings melted down into meaning the exact same thing (what I am sure they will do for ME4) says that all the choices made along the way did not matter.

If you make choices and the results are the same from each choice then your choices did not matter.  You could randomly make a choice and get the same result, so what you did did not affect anything at all.