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Interview: Bioware not ruling out using ME3 saves in ME4 yet?


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#201
Reth Shepherd

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dorktainian wrote...

CaptainTeabag wrote...

OP im sure i remember Casey Hudson telling people to hold onto their ME3 saves even before ME4 was announced.

yes he did because if i remember correctly he said they had something really cool planned.....and those saves always default at chronos station......so.........?


It was Mike Gamble.

Michael Gamble ‏@GambleMike

Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever.


Then - Michael Gamble ‏@GambleMike

Extended cut was one of the things I alluded to. We are working our butts off to make this amazing, gratifying, and over to you ASAP.


Link to the forum containing the quotes and the links to the original Tweets. It's the third post down.

#202
3DandBeyond

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The Grey Nayr wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

I will just say be real. Bioware couldn't pull of choice in this trilogy. Don't expect Bioware to honor all the choices in ME4. Expect alot of recons, cutting and marginalizing.


ME3 took in over 1000 variables between ME1 and ME2. And the events of the game, from beginning to end, have several variances depending on those choices.

Nobody ever promised you a big grandiose difference for each decision. It's the little things that matter, they make up the whole of the game. Just because your choices didn't affect the last three missions of the game, does not mean they didn't matter. The Genophage, Geth/Quarian, etc stories were wrapped up in plenty of variances based on your choices. And were wrapped up beforehand, in order to bring everyone together to fight the Reapers. If you hadn't done any of it, you wouldn't have gotten it done.

Making snap judgments about the future of the franchise is not "being real." It's just a lame ass assumption. Pure ignorance.

Even if you're right. You'll buy it anyway, you'll play it anyway, and you'll probably enjoy it anyway, even if you don't admit it. Biggest thing I notice. People hate on the ending, hate on Bioware, and hate on everything Bioware puts out; but I don't see them leaving, I see them buying and continuing to buy.



Oh, apparently you are psychic.

And wrong.  Bioware promised a vast variety of endings-that it would be like no two people were playing the same game.

And last I checked only registered owners were allowed here.  That means every one of us posting here owns the game, paid money for it, and since it is a product we bought, we can complain till the cows come home about how that product failed us.  We can also point out the unfulfilled promises made by those that created it-promises that in any other industry would be considered non-negotiable and not something that is just ignored by those buying the product.

Bioware promised these things.  They specifically promised there'd be no ABC endings-so, gee RGB is nothing like that, right?  They promised that all our questions would be answered.  Please, don't make me repeat the questions that are out there hanging that they seem not to even want to consider answering.  And, no that promise was not kept-in fact, instead of answering all questions, they created more that I'm no longer sure they are able to answer, nor am I sure I want them to even try.  Because every time they do they forget some other piece of lore that THEY created.  No other industry would be allowed to disregard the hype they used to get people to pre-order, ruses they used to get the money in hand before the game was released to ensure buyer's remorse was less likely to result in returns.

It is partially because the endings ignore THE major and really only stories within ME3 that are also continuations of stories from ME1 and 2 that the endings are so bad.  Those choices did matter until the gawd awful kid showed up and made the problem one of Shepard just not understanding the reapers and that they have only been trying to help.  What a crock. 

The attitude Bioware has shown towards fans is that we're stupid.  One example is the mass relays.  They showed and said in the game that their rupture and/or their destruction would destroy the galaxy.  Mac Walters said it would do that.  The Final Hours said that would happen.  People saw the original endings and saw the relays blow up, meaning the galaxy was screwed.  But, incredibly the Normandy crashed and oh, happy day.  People said, "WTF?!!"  People knew the citadel had a relay on it and it was close to Earth, but the Earth could survive. People said, "WTF?!!!"  Bioware went on twitter and said the explosion of the relays wasn't that bad, the galaxy would survive it.  They attempted to retcon the whole thing on twitter. 

However, they never changed a codex entry that still exists that says the galaxy should be screwed.  Instead when the EC was being released, Walters and Hudson said they had no idea why people thought the relays blowing up would destroy the galaxy and that they never meant for that to happen.  Right, so people are idiots for thinking that something shown in the games, specifically said (in Feb) will happen, did happen.  But Bioware that wrote the damn games and that said this stuff, had no idea why people thought this way.  They can't even remember what they say four months after they've said it, on video, in a behind the scenes app, and in the games they wrote.  But, it's the fans that are wrong.

And you wonder why people get angry with them.  They say that ambiguity is closure.  They say a lot of things that contradict things they just said and then it's the fans that are wrong.  Apparently they think this kind of stuff is teasing or playful, but it isn't. 

Yes, we ended the genophage and geth stories prior to the game's ending, but the choices made there were ignored at the end, and they have relevance.  Also, BW set up this ability to create Shepard's (with dialogue they wrote) that has certain ideas, values, morals, thoughts about consequences, but that was irrelevant.  I could play completely different from you and get those same awesomely cool, super de dooper amazing choices.  Who in hell ever wanted these games to end with a choice?  And what brainiac thought that was a good idea?  Oh, right someone who does not think we'll notice the similarity between ABC and RGB.  Same people that don't know why we'd think the galaxy should be a wasteland after the original endings. 

And please point me to that fight with the reapers that all those things that were brought together helped us with.  I missed it.  Perhaps it's because I fell asleep near the end of the game.  The place where all the excitement should be boiling over and where the conflict is coming to resolution and where all questions will at last be answered and where the snowball rolling downhill is picking up speed and more snow.  The amazing action and gameplay and fun just put me to sleep and the choices I woke up to were the exact opposite of anything my Shepard wanted to do in three stories based upon dialogue choices Bioware wrote.

#203
Outsider edge

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3DandBeyond wrote...



The Grey Nayr wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

I will just say be real. Bioware couldn't pull of choice in this trilogy. Don't expect Bioware to honor all the choices in ME4. Expect alot of recons, cutting and marginalizing.


ME3 took in over 1000 variables between ME1 and ME2. And the events of the game, from beginning to end, have several variances depending on those choices.

Nobody ever promised you a big grandiose difference for each decision. It's the little things that matter, they make up the whole of the game. Just because your choices didn't affect the last three missions of the game, does not mean they didn't matter. The Genophage, Geth/Quarian, etc stories were wrapped up in plenty of variances based on your choices. And were wrapped up beforehand, in order to bring everyone together to fight the Reapers. If you hadn't done any of it, you wouldn't have gotten it done.

Making snap judgments about the future of the franchise is not "being real." It's just a lame ass assumption. Pure ignorance.

Even if you're right. You'll buy it anyway, you'll play it anyway, and you'll probably enjoy it anyway, even if you don't admit it. Biggest thing I notice. People hate on the ending, hate on Bioware, and hate on everything Bioware puts out; but I don't see them leaving, I see them buying and continuing to buy.



Oh, apparently you are psychic.

And wrong.  Bioware promised a vast variety of endings-that it would be like no two people were playing the same game.

And last I checked only registered owners were allowed here.  That means every one of us posting here owns the game, paid money for it, and since it is a product we bought, we can complain till the cows come home about how that product failed us.  We can also point out the unfulfilled promises made by those that created it-promises that in any other industry would be considered non-negotiable and not something that is just ignored by those buying the product.

Bioware promised these things.  They specifically promised there'd be no ABC endings-so, gee RGB is nothing like that, right?  They promised that all our questions would be answered.  Please, don't make me repeat the questions that are out there hanging that they seem not to even want to consider answering.  And, no that promise was not kept-in fact, instead of answering all questions, they created more that I'm no longer sure they are able to answer, nor am I sure I want them to even try.  Because every time they do they forget some other piece of lore that THEY created.  No other industry would be allowed to disregard the hype they used to get people to pre-order, ruses they used to get the money in hand before the game was released to ensure buyer's remorse was less likely to result in returns.

It is partially because the endings ignore THE major and really only stories within ME3 that are also continuations of stories from ME1 and 2 that the endings are so bad.  Those choices did matter until the gawd awful kid showed up and made the problem one of Shepard just not understanding the reapers and that they have only been trying to help.  What a crock. 

The attitude Bioware has shown towards fans is that we're stupid.  One example is the mass relays.  They showed and said in the game that their rupture and/or their destruction would destroy the galaxy.  Mac Walters said it would do that.  The Final Hours said that would happen.  People saw the original endings and saw the relays blow up, meaning the galaxy was screwed.  But, incredibly the Normandy crashed and oh, happy day.  People said, "WTF?!!"  People knew the citadel had a relay on it and it was close to Earth, but the Earth could survive. People said, "WTF?!!!"  Bioware went on twitter and said the explosion of the relays wasn't that bad, the galaxy would survive it.  They attempted to retcon the whole thing on twitter. 

However, they never changed a codex entry that still exists that says the galaxy should be screwed.  Instead when the EC was being released, Walters and Hudson said they had no idea why people thought the relays blowing up would destroy the galaxy and that they never meant for that to happen.  Right, so people are idiots for thinking that something shown in the games, specifically said (in Feb) will happen, did happen.  But Bioware that wrote the damn games and that said this stuff, had no idea why people thought this way.  They can't even remember what they say four months after they've said it, on video, in a behind the scenes app, and in the games they wrote.  But, it's the fans that are wrong.

And you wonder why people get angry with them.  They say that ambiguity is closure.  They say a lot of things that contradict things they just said and then it's the fans that are wrong.  Apparently they think this kind of stuff is teasing or playful, but it isn't. 

Yes, we ended the genophage and geth stories prior to the game's ending, but the choices made there were ignored at the end, and they have relevance.  Also, BW set up this ability to create Shepard's (with dialogue they wrote) that has certain ideas, values, morals, thoughts about consequences, but that was irrelevant.  I could play completely different from you and get those same awesomely cool, super de dooper amazing choices.  Who in hell ever wanted these games to end with a choice?  And what brainiac thought that was a good idea?  Oh, right someone who does not think we'll notice the similarity between ABC and RGB.  Same people that don't know why we'd think the galaxy should be a wasteland after the original endings. 

And please point me to that fight with the reapers that all those things that were brought together helped us with.  I missed it.  Perhaps it's because I fell asleep near the end of the game.  The place where all the excitement should be boiling over and where the conflict is coming to resolution and where all questions will at last be answered and where the snowball rolling downhill is picking up speed and more snow.  The amazing action and gameplay and fun just put me to sleep and the choices I woke up to were the exact opposite of anything my Shepard wanted to do in three stories based upon dialogue choices Bioware wrote.


The PR blitz leading up too the ME3 launch in hindsight was atrocious. Several comments made by people closely working on the project weren't even remotely close too reality. The "no ABC-ending"or "the Rachi choice will have big consequences"are just two things that were said in previews mere weeks before the game was launched and there were plenty more. This together with the initial reception of the fanbase's complaints, official responses and more lead too a very heated environment which in the end lead too the forced creation of the EC too salvage future DLC sales and perhaps the IP as a whole.

Also i agree the whole War-Assets system is a farce. Everything boiling down too some numbers in the background that (especially in the vanilla ending) had barely any consequence at all is just dumb. ME3 is a good game with many high points but there's nothing wrong too discuss it's many failings cause there are quite a few of those aswell and these forums are the perfect place too do exactly that.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 18 décembre 2012 - 08:29 .


#204
SpamBot2000

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AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...
You cannot be BOTH for a galaxy-defining end choice AND a sequel. So the EPIC CHOICE YOU FACE is between these mutually contradictory things. You can't have everything in life.


Why not?

It means canonizing an ending, sure. But I don't consider that a problem -- I wanted canon endings for both DA:O and KotOR.


Uh, because if you want a choice to determine the fate of the galaxy while simultaneously saying how it's a-OK if that choice doesn't determine the fate of the galaxy at all when the story progresses, are you in fact for a galaxy-defining choice at all?

Seems to me you'd be for a false choice, a spin on the 'what-if' machine. Is an obviously false choice in the middle of the story worth its costs in credibility and support? 

Luckily this is yet another opportunity for BioWare to repair what is broken. Here's how:

"The ending of Mass Effect 3 was consistent with our vision for bringing a sense of finality to the end of the story. Since then, however, the overwhelming popular demand for continuing the story of this rich, vibrant universe has made us re-evaluate that decision. After seeing the dedication of our fans, we have decided to offer them a brand new story in this universe. Naturally this means we are going to have to revisit the ending of Mass Effect 3 to better provide a continuity from episode 3 to the continuing saga. We all feel very proud of the original artistic vision of that ending, but our commitment to provide the industry gold standard in story-based gaming necessitates a certain flexibility in order for us to respond to the massive popularity of franchises such as Mass Effect.

Signed: BioDude In Chief"

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 18 décembre 2012 - 11:03 .


#205
Rotacioskapa

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Thrazesul wrote...

Noooo, please no saves. Please not a game where they have to make a ending choice in ME3 canon! That's not gonna end well! >.<


They can solve it easily with IT or similar method if they really want to. We could learn at the beginning of ME 4 of what really happened, what happened with Shepard and it would solve the ending problem, Shepard doesn't have to die, he can live but he won't be the protagonist anymore.

#206
AsheraII

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SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...
You cannot be BOTH for a galaxy-defining end choice AND a sequel. So the EPIC CHOICE YOU FACE is between these mutually contradictory things. You can't have everything in life.


Why not?

It means canonizing an ending, sure. But I don't consider that a problem -- I wanted canon endings for both DA:O and KotOR.


Uh, because if you want a choice to determine the fate of the galaxy while simultaneously saying how it's a-OK if that choice doesn't determine the fate of the galaxy at all when the story progresses, are you in fact for a galaxy-defining choice at all?

I think it's definitely possible to keep the galaxy defining choice at the end of ME3 as part of an import without canonizing any playthrough and make a sequel. And I even believe it possible to place that sequel as little as 5 years after Mass Effect 3. It needs some thought, it needs a bit of work, but I can definitely vision the possibility and how to go about it. But to make it work out, and allow for even more games in this awesome universe, this one Mass Effect 4 game would require one of two themes:
1. To alter history
or
2. To alter the present


Options 1 and 2 would both affect the future of the universe, and I'd definitely suggest the developers to not put any variety in that. That was the one big mistake they made in ME 2 and 3: give the players the ability to shape the universe. It's a pointless ability, something the players actually do not connect to. Having to decide between Ashley or Kaiden is the kind of decision that draws the player into the game. Final universe shaping decisions do not. That is the time where players cut their bond with the game universe. "Okay, I finished the game, let's blow it all up and go with a bang".

Compare that to the suicide run, where making a bad decision or simply playing bad or arriving too late would cost you a member of your crew. Keeping the Collector Base intact or blowing it up was only a hard choice because people were aware that there would be a sequel, and had no idea what the effect of keeping the base would be. But, the possibility of a sequel wasn't an issue when Mass Effect 3 was written. Maybe an oversight, maybe intentional, I don't know, but the result is a more frivolous use of the universe shaping ending by both the writers AND the players.

It's the characters in their squad that people connect with, not the shape of the universe after the game is over.

#207
3DandBeyond

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Outsider edge wrote...


The PR blitz leading up too the ME3 launch in hindsight was atrocious. Several comments made by people closely working on the project weren't even remotely close too reality. The "no ABC-ending"or "the Rachi choice will have big consequences"are just two things that were said in previews mere weeks before the game was launched and there were plenty more. This together with the initial reception of the fanbase's complaints, official responses and more lead too a very heated environment which in the end lead too the forced creation of the EC too salvage future DLC sales and perhaps the IP as a whole.

Also i agree the whole War-Assets system is a farce. Everything boiling down too some numbers in the background that (especially in the vanilla ending) had barely any consequence at all is just dumb. ME3 is a good game with many high points but there's nothing wrong too discuss it's many failings cause there are quite a few of those aswell and these forums are the perfect place too do exactly that.


This is exactly it.  The game was made by them and within it were certain things we were told.  Outside of the game, they did everything and said everything they could to get us to buy it.  It ended up with them deciding to do the EC which was something they apparently believed was not really necessary if only you could just understand the endings.  The EC was to provide that understanding we were incapable of.  Well, amazingly enough though it was to merely provide understanding (explanation) and closure (loose ends within it would be tied up), it exists to do neither of these things.  Explanation was not needed.  The implication that it was is that we as fans were too stupid to know what the endings meant.  Well, the EC didn't change what they mean-they are exactly what we understood them to be.  This was stated in the "Yes, We Are Listening" thread that BW created and stickied-Shepard dies and controls reapers, Shepard dies and the Shepard essence is dispersed throughout the galaxy to super magically change all organic life into some hybrid that is part synthetic and organic, Shepard lies in a pile of rubble to an uncertain (without head canon) fate that now includes one plausible version of someone intuiting that the torso exists and is alive. 

But, the EC as I said does not exist to explain the endings-it exists to add pieces to give the endings a more acceptable feeling.  The kid talks a lot more so he must be explaining things better-no, he just talks a lot more.  Just about every new thing he discusses is something he does not explain any differently, if at all, or that he merely just talks around so it seems like he's giving more information.  RGB still exists with no real difference.  EMS was lowered in order to address an issue BW consistently refused to admit existed (that without playing MP you could not get all endings).

Bioware also said upon releasing the EC that it fundamentally did not change anything-this is one instance where they are credible.  It did not, except it did change something.  It added the refuse ending-their non-serious ending.  It retconned the fate of the mass relays because we didn't understand what happened to them-no, because of what they had originally wanted to have happen, that they say was never intended to happen.  They added slide shows to try and make the message hit home, that the galaxy is just super de dooper after these horrific events-war and the aftermath, the galaxy has survived, you idiotic fans.  They added the Normandy evac scene (an out of place, but emotional scene sometimes, a laughable incongruous one at other times)-because people said that is probably how they'd think teammates got back onto the Normandy.  But people also said that it's the kind of thing that would not make sense-so of course BW added that to the EC.  Never mind that it completely ignores the other teammates that end up back on the Normandy, when everyone thinks the mission has failed, that Shepard did not get to the citadel-even while Shepard could be lying injured somewhere.  And the Normandy flies off, when the logical thing to do would be to attempt to provide some cover for the team to get to the conduit-by team, I mean Shepard.

There are many examples like this.  The point is Bioware needed to get real about all of this.  When the game was released, fans were all gung ho about the game (a small window).  Then they played the ending.  Surely at that point, when this large group of people started to grow even larger and said to Bioware, "there's something wrong with your endings" Bioware could have and should have created a real dialogue.  Instead, they ignored it and even said this was a minority opinion or other things.  There were also comments that people were just upset that Shepard's story was ending.  And now, some BW people have come out and said not one single person at BW thought there was a problem with the endings or that people would not like them.  But that's not even true-Mike Gamble said the endings might make people angry.  And yet, even though he knew that, Bioware tried to appear stunned that people were upset.  So, they ignored fans, and allowed this all to fester.  They wanted to appear to be the injured party.  Well, my attitude remains-they are a company that knowingly released a flawed product that was not what they said it would be, that was in many ways what they said it would not be and as yet, they have failed to live up to their promises.  The explanation is because fans wanted a different story, one they could not write, one that wasn't real to them.  No, fans wanted an ME story, one they could and did write before and one that was not a copy of someone else's IP, one that actually fit the stories at hand and that at least attempted to fulfill some of the promises they made to get us to buy the game.

I also agree that mistakes were made on all sides, but it was Bioware all along that had the real opportunities and chances to change the situation and they refused or just ignored it all, hoping it would go away.  I know of no problem that will do so all on its own.  And Bioware seems headed into gaming territory that is now coming under some scrutiny in light of recent events-they seem headed toward a more FPS-like gaming experience.  Yes, we need way more of those.

#208
Jackal13th

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IsaacShep wrote...

youtu.be/nRy70cV_htU

Kind of an interesting answer. Rather clear "no more Shep, his trilogy is done", but the part about being able to imagine some other choices going forward definitely raises an eyebrow. Seems like they're still in the process of deciding the basics of ME4.

It's interesting though that Mac doesn't outright rule it out and talks about choices going forward. COuld they be really seriously thinking about making ME4 a sequel? :o

And I guess they wouldn't really need to use save games even if ME4 is a sequel. If they move on further in time like 2000 years, then there would be only a handful of choices with that long-lasting consequences (endings, Genophage, Rachni, Rannoch). Establishing these could be done in-game without save-transferring (like Miranda asks us who did we pick as the Human Councilour at the beginning of ME2)


 I agree i listened to it 2 times and it does sound like there might be a Shepard or a son or Daughter of Shepard
i could live with that choise .:)

#209
Jackal13th

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Well to me I still play the sp mass effect 3 but not to the end i have tried the mode thing (witch is good to show that Shepard still lives and his or her romantic interest is showed to at least be at peace with there lovers still all is sad because of Anderson s death .) or till i find and or figure out how to get the mode done installed right . that is just my thoughts on it and mine only .

Modifié par Jackal13th, 18 décembre 2012 - 02:54 .


#210
paul165

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AlanC9 wrote...

paul165 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It means canonizing an ending, sure. But I don't consider that a problem -- I wanted canon endings for both DA:O and KotOR.


Why? I know how my DAO and KotoR ended that was good enough for me I don't (didn't in the case of KotoR I/II) appreciate an external authority coming in and saying nope you played it wrong this is what was supposed to happen.


In DA:O's case I thought that the only chance the DR had to be important was if it was canonized. Spambot's on to something -- a choice can't go both ways if it's significant, since they can't design two different sequels.

And in KotOR's case we had two wildly different endings, which I liked very much. The problem is that KotOR 2 ground them both into identical mush. They should have picked either LS Revan or DS Revan for the sequel.


Interesting. I didn't mind what they did with Revan in 2 but I very much minded what they did with Revan and the Exile in ToR

#211
nevar00

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Are we still buying what they say in interviews?

Don't be ridiculous, importing all those choices (Shep alive/dead, Krogan, what happened with the Rachni and Quarians/Geth, ending and Reapers, synthesis) would either be huge amounts of work or would trivialize everything even more than it the choices already have been.

#212
Sanunes

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People still complain about the PR blitz that was the worst part of ME3 and I do agree, but at the same time people beg for the entire game to be laid out before them while the game is still in development.  I hope the backlash about all the PR means they will say next to nothing about the next game before its launched and keep all answers as vague as possible.

Back to the original topic, BioWare has been really vague on a lot of things about Mass Effect 4 (and even Dragon Age 3), but with how adamant they have been about Shepard's story being over I can't see it coming back, otherwise it will be another PR nightmare.

Modifié par Sanunes, 18 décembre 2012 - 04:02 .


#213
Massa FX

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They could carry over larger over arching outcomes. For example: Geth come back... pissed off or Shep DNA peeps rebelling against the machines or Shep catalyst getting the boot by new protagonist.

Wait... thats pretty ambitious.

#214
Jackal13th

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at this point i am not buying any thing but the one Mass effect 4 i will wate till it comees out and check the reviews on YouTube . this time before i spend any cash for it .as for now im back to me 1 and me 2 with a maby me 3

#215
thehomeworld

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If BW hasn't ruled out using the save files from ME3 for ME4 what exactly are they going to pull that is relevant? They didn't do that for the other games they gave us another Rachni to save if we killed her, destroying Cerberus and handing over that data on them in ME does nothing to cripple them in ME2 muchless change the entire dialouge and feel of the game with a para vs TIM, getting the SB base does nothing for ME3, getting Lev does nothing for ME3.

So maybe they'll pull did you kill the Hanar, Drell, Quarians, Geth if so they aren't mentioned or seen in the game. Did you destroy the reapers? They galaxy forgot all about you, Did you sync up with the reapers? Everyone (save your hero) is an egotistical jackass who also forgot what shep did aren't angry they're half husk the reapers just disappear from the world, Did you pick control? Well the reapers are still gone and no one knows anything about the last cycle, Did you pick refuse? Well conveniently we still have all the same species we did last cycle and no one knows anything about the reapers or the last cycle.