139 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

What could make Dragon Age combat way more interesting?


Exploration. If you think about it, all of the fighting basically comes down to how much damage you can do and how much damage you can take. Can't really pick any abilities which could open up new tacticcal options, can't create diversions, can't do any proper scouting etc... Boring. And then there is the rogue class, which is basically similar to the fighter except he can unlock some petty trinkets with his lock pick ability, lay down some traps (which I guess is one good class specific thing, but it's still totally combat oriented). And then there is the mage. He just casts spells and stuff, and these spells are usually pretty good at killing things, or keeping his people alive and fighting at their peak performance.

But here are some abilities which do things that none of the other classes have been capable of so far.

Climbing: this is a thing you could do around trees or buildings, or just as a way of getting over obstacles. I think that the possiblities of having the high ground advantage should be obvious enough. Can be excellent for scouting an area, and could possibly result in alternative routes to get around obstacles or to different places or whatever. Also a good way for archers to shoot at anyone on the ground without fear of getting stabbed. I guess that the main attribute which affects a characters ability to climb would be strength and would also be affected by dexterity and weight.

sprinting: I guess it's good if you're running away from something or are going to do some...

Long jumping: to go to places where a heavily armored tank could never could. I don't know why, use your imagination.

Destructible environment: because it's always fun to just sneak a rogue into the basement of an enemy strong hold so he can time an explosion to explode right underneath the enemies feet. Can also be used to confuse enemies, create distractions and so on.


Any other ideas? I think it'd be pretty easy to make the Dragon Age gameplay more varied in its current state, so no need to be shy.

[Celene II]

Actually its very difficult to change it around it in its current state.

The manner in which the graphics present themselves do not really facilitate climbing, sprinting, jumping or for the most part destructible environments.

Those things work best in first person games, not the strange 3rd person view they have in DA2 or the isometric combat view in DAO

The best way to improve combat in DA series without changing its entire system would be to include more different monsters, include vast amounts of new abilities and buff up the ability to ambush and the use of stealth. Real stealth not horrible stealth.

[AshenShug4r]

Smarter enemies, reduced numbers of them.

[Rawgrim]

More tactics involved, less raining enemies and hack and slash combat.

[Genuine UK]

Those things work best in first person games, not the strange 3rd person view they have in DA2 or the isometric combat view in DAO

Works fine for all the Assasin Creed Games and there all 3rd person but would be hard for the Isometric view of DAO i think there not going to go back to the isometric view just becase of the consel versions which is reall sad for ppl like me who like a bit of stratgy view.

Modifié par Genuine_666, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:33 .

[Celene II]

Well assassin's creed is a real time combat non strange 3rd person game with 1 primary character

Not a 4 party real/pause based combat style with strange low 3rd person style

[LTD]

Combat that doesn't look and feel like lifted from average JRPG of PS2 era with COOL backflips and warriors teleporting around would make a good start.

[upsettingshorts]

LTD wrote...

Combat that doesn't look and feel like lifted from average JRPG of PS2 era with COOL backflips and warriors teleporting around would make a good start.

Change the animations, receive better combat mechanics.

The BSN clearly knows what it's talking about, and can differentiate between things.

In any case my serious suggestion would be simple:  Much better encounter design.  Better?  A wider variety of tactical scenarios and mixes of enemies to kill.  In DA2 every fight was an ambush by a lot of mooks.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:40 .

[Rawgrim]

LTD wrote...

Combat that doesn't look and feel like lifted from average JRPG of PS2 era with COOL backflips and warriors teleporting around would make a good start.

+100 approval.

[Orian Tabris]

Enemies that appear in waves, should appear in specific areas, rather than just jumping out of nothing. I think that if there's an exit or two, in the area where combat takes place, extra waves of enemies should either run out from the area (like those dogs in MotA did, in the boss battle with Duke Prosper). If there are doors or cave entrances, the doors should swing open and have the enemies run out of them, or the enemies should climb out of the caves (much like the ghasts in MotA).

Also, as someone else has said, I think the enemy AI should be a bit smarter. If the player runs a mage away from a group of melee enemies, they shouln't keep following the mage until they draw threat to other allies. Instead, they should chase after closer enemies. To be able to run around your party, as a hurlock or a qunari chases you, ignoring them, is just stupid. You can do that in DA2.

[Vaeliorin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
In any case my serious suggestion would be simple:  Much better encounter design.  Better?  A wider variety of tactical scenarios and mixes of enemies to kill.  In DA2 every fight was an ambush by a lot of mooks.

This.

Also, make it turn-based.

[LTD]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LTD wrote...

Combat that doesn't look and feel like lifted from average JRPG of PS2 era with COOL backflips and warriors teleporting around would make a good start.

Change the animations, receive better combat mechanics.

The BSN clearly knows what it's talking about, and can differentiate between things.

In any case my serious suggestion would be simple:  Much better encounter design.  Better?  A wider variety of tactical scenarios and mixes of enemies to kill.  In DA2 every fight was an ambush by a lot of mooks.

Animation is a huge part of any combat in game leaning as heavily on visuals as BW RPGs do.
Entire feel of  combat comes through marriage of animation and mechanics build to co-exist and support em.

You can be as boring as you like and try score them cool guy points with "Why, I, for one, would most asuredly be deeply  appreciative of  wider variety of tactical wrfijwedjxbehuojopygfh." Underneath it all, combat that looks and feels like it is the dude from Devil May Cry series being busy acting  cool and  swinging a sword shaped flash light around pisses people off. We don't have to go deeper than this. Fix this aspect of combat and theeen we can start worrying about them finer anecdotes like overall approach to tactical scenarios and DPS differentations in alignmement of holy trinity of Healer/Tank/DPS combination of factors.

Modifié par LTD, 17 décembre 2012 - 07:56 .

[mickey111]

Celene II wrote...
ent themselves do not really facilitate climbing, sprinting, jumping or for the most part destructible environments.

Those things work best in first person games, not the strange 3rd person view they have in DA2 or the isometric combat view in DAO
.

Pretty sure that there are plenty of developers who would say you're wrong. Like Relic for example. They did a pretty good job with destructible environments on Comapny of Heroes. Works just fine in pen and paper too, an that typw of play doesn't even use graphics. In any game where you're controlling multiple people at once, developers normally include abilities like climinbg and jumping and blowing **** up (assuming that they are in the game at all) as activated abilities, little moves which you can make in context sensitive situations. The person/unit/thingo you told to jump or climb or whatever then proceeds to just do their thing until it's done or are told to stop doing that.

Modifié par mickey111, 17 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[AppealToReason]

I'm totally fine with the way it has been in both games. Honestly, DA2's combat makes it a lot less of a slog at times. Also makes it a million times less painful to change targets since you can move faster than the speed of a snail.

[Saibh]

I really love the KotOR method of combat--it's just a series of blocks, dodges, parries, until you wear them out and finish them out. It looks great.

That said, it's less cool when you have four people beating on the same guy.

Dynamic animations is the only thing I can think of that would improve combat without changing it drastically. Characters reacting, not just acting.

Also, OP, you're pretty much asking for a revamp of the entire genre and game. The amount of resources that would go into making the game you describe would take away drastically from a lot of the things we do appreciate. Probably the companions, first.

[Xewaka]

Bring back the zoomed out tactical camera. Such a simple change in perspective can do wonders on the perception and level of engagement of the encounters.

EDIT: Also, as Shorts pointed out, something other than ambushes all time every time would be nice. Out of combat stealth for recon would also be nice. Improving encounter design over DA:O should be easier than over DA2, because at least DA:O had a wider variety of encounter design than DA2.

Modifié par Xewaka, 17 décembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[Aulis Vaara]

mickey111 wrote...

What could make Dragon Age combat way more interesting?


Exploration. If you think about it, all of the fighting basically comes down to how much damage you can do and how much damage you can take. Can't really pick any abilities which could open up new tacticcal options, can't create diversions, can't do any proper scouting etc... Boring. And then there is the rogue class, which is basically similar to the fighter except he can unlock some petty trinkets with his lock pick ability, lay down some traps (which I guess is one good class specific thing, but it's still totally combat oriented). And then there is the mage. He just casts spells and stuff, and these spells are usually pretty good at killing things, or keeping his people alive and fighting at their peak performance.

But here are some abilities which do things that none of the other classes have been capable of so far.

Climbing: this is a thing you could do around trees or buildings, or just as a way of getting over obstacles. I think that the possiblities of having the high ground advantage should be obvious enough. Can be excellent for scouting an area, and could possibly result in alternative routes to get around obstacles or to different places or whatever. Also a good way for archers to shoot at anyone on the ground without fear of getting stabbed. I guess that the main attribute which affects a characters ability to climb would be strength and would also be affected by dexterity and weight.

sprinting: I guess it's good if you're running away from something or are going to do some...

Long jumping: to go to places where a heavily armored tank could never could. I don't know why, use your imagination.

Destructible environment: because it's always fun to just sneak a rogue into the basement of an enemy strong hold so he can time an explosion to explode right underneath the enemies feet. Can also be used to confuse enemies, create distractions and so on.


Any other ideas? I think it'd be pretty easy to make the Dragon Age gameplay more varied in its current state, so no need to be shy.

You should play XCOM: Enemy Unknown. It has all your tactical needs.

[BouncyFrag]

More variety/randomness in regards to where baddies will show up to keep us on our toes due to the uncertainty. One exception though: spiders. I still jump every now and then when they magically spawn from thin air.
*thinks back to that cheap mini-boss spider fight in the Deep Roads during DA:O....must...control...rage...*

[philippe willaume]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LTD wrote...

Combat that doesn't look and feel like lifted from average JRPG of PS2 era with COOL backflips and warriors teleporting around would make a good start.

Change the animations, receive better combat mechanics.

The BSN clearly knows what it's talking about, and can differentiate between things.

In any case my serious suggestion would be simple:  Much better encounter design.  Better?  A wider variety of tactical scenarios and mixes of enemies to kill.  In DA2 every fight was an ambush by a lot of mooks.

ahmen to that bro.
the only things i would add is that a bit more in game versatility in non magical classes, ability to use or modify the terrain and scout ahead.

Phil 

[steamcamel]

I really liked the cross-class combos in Dragon Age 2, so I hope they stick with that. I would, however, like to see something similar to Dark Souls. The backstab, parrying and riposte mechanic really made combat interesting.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Whilst I like some of the OP's ideas, I think he severely undervalues the combat in DA:O

DW Rogues were all about back-stabbing, which is all about movement on the battlefield, and mages were all about crowd control - very tactical if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, some of these ideas could work a treat, but I don't think there was much wrong with DA:O's combat in the first place.

[DraCZeQQ]

Dragon's Dogma combat system

[Ziegrif]

Make it an Action RPG DMC style combat!

[Pedrak]

... the possibility to avoid it.